Bizarre morning on Thameslink (15/11)

[Skimpot flyer]

Young woman sits down opposite me in the declassified first class seats on a Thameslink train in Brighton this morning. Proceeds to plug in her laptop and makes herself comfortable. Within seconds of the train leaving, a ticket inspector asks all for ‘tickets and railcards’.

A guy to my right says to said inspector ‘oh, does this train not stop at Hassocks? I thought all Thameslink trains did?’

The GTR fella says ‘you’ll have to get off at Burgess Hill and travel back’

Young woman says ‘does it not stop at Preston Park, then?’ to which he offers the same advice, checks my ticket and moves through the door.

The two individuals grin at each other.

I said ‘you do realise he’ll be back?’

Sure enough, at Burgess Hill, GTR man pops his head around the door, the guy gathers his things and gets off.

The woman then says ‘can I buy a new ticket? My plans have changed’

He mentions Penalty Fare scheme, but allows her to use an app to buy a ticket. He scans it, then asks her to produce the 17-21 Railcard that she’s purchased a discounted ticket with. She can’t (looks about 25-30) and says ‘oops, I’m so sorry, I made a mistake!’

At this point I’m thinking her credibility is entirely shot to pieces, yet he lets her purchase a new digital ticket.

I thought about advising her she’s playing a dangerous game, especially if all her purchases are online.

Should I have said something?

 

[Wilts Wanderer]

Should I have said something?

Personally, my view would be no. The conductors aren’t stupid, they’ve probably seen every possible scam/argument before. At the end of the day, it’s their call (as GTR representative) whether to impose a penalty or just sell a ticket.

 

[Skimpot flyer]

Which is why I didn’t.
I expect to see a thread in disputes and prosecutions in due course, though

 

[AlterEgo]

Young woman sits down opposite me in the declassified first class seats on a Thameslink train in Brighton this morning. Proceeds to plug in her laptop and makes herself comfortable. Within seconds of the train leaving, a ticket inspector asks all for ‘tickets and railcards’.

A guy to my right says to said inspector ‘oh, does this train not stop at Hassocks? I thought all Thameslink trains did?’

The GTR fella says ‘you’ll have to get off at Burgess Hill and travel back’

Young woman says ‘does it not stop at Preston Park, then?’ to which he offers the same advice, checks my ticket and moves through the door.

The two individuals grin at each other.

I said ‘you do realise he’ll be back?’

Sure enough, at Burgess Hill, GTR man pops his head around the door, the guy gathers his things and gets off.

The woman then says ‘can I buy a new ticket? My plans have changed’

He mentions Penalty Fare scheme, but allows her to use an app to buy a ticket. He scans it, then asks her to produce the 17-21 Railcard that she’s purchased a discounted ticket with. She can’t (looks about 25-30) and says ‘oops, I’m so sorry, I made a mistake!’

At this point I’m thinking her credibility is entirely shot to pieces, yet he lets her purchase a new digital ticket.

I thought about advising her she’s playing a dangerous game, especially if all her purchases are online.

Should I have said something?

No, it’s not your business.

 

[Skimpot flyer]

No, it’s not your business.

Fair enough.
For clarity, I meant saying something to her, discretely, about the possible consequences. Many young people don’t realise they could get a criminal record

 

[Ashley Hill]

Personally, my view would be no. The conductors aren’t stupid, they’ve probably seen every possible scam/argument before.

Which is why he returned. At least the man got off so he was inconvenienced and the woman paid up. There will always be another time to collar her.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Should I have said something?

I'd say no. She may well be known to them. But if you're unhappy you could make a retrospective complaint.

 

[CastlebarKeith]

l've seen 2 men in their "middle age" (or possibly the same one twice)
use a Child a ticket to open the barriers at Holborn

Nobody seemed to care there.

 

[mad_rich]

What's the scam here? They bought tickets to Hassocks/ Preston Park to get through the barrier at Brighton, and they're hoping to travel all the way to London without seeing an inspector/ gateline?

That doesn't seem like a good bet to me?

 

[paul1609]

I think that during my travels across the country when ever someone is challenged for a young persons of whatever kind railcard. The chances of one thats valid and in date must be less than 50% of occasions.

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

Thameslink need to be out in force everyday ticketless travel is rife

 

[Bletchleyite]

I think that during my travels across the country when ever someone is challenged for a young persons of whatever kind railcard. The chances of one thats valid and in date must be less than 50% of occasions.

This isn't helped by staff hardly ever asking for Railcards. I think I've shown my Network Railcard a single-figure number of times in the last 12 months.

 

[izvor]

Thameslink need to be out in force everyday ticketless travel is rife

Agreed. I don't think I've ever seen revenue squads on Thameslink south of the river. And the undesirables always make for the First Class so they can charge their mobiles.

 

[Kite159]

Thameslink need to be out in force everyday ticketless travel is rife

Agreed, all to easy for someone like the people mentioned in the opening post to have a ticket to bypass the barriers at Brighton, then at the London end jump off at Farringdon, making use of the oyster reader on the platform to touch in before continuing. Or the foolish types who use a paper ticket from London bridge to Blackfriars which is a large red flag

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

Thats for sure although they usually play the line isnt this declassified - no sir/madam thats the other end of the train - and they get away with it

 

[mike57]

This isn't helped by staff hardly ever asking for Railcards. I think I've shown my Network Railcard a single-figure number of times in the last 12 months.

Have to agree, I have an Senior Railcard which lives on my phone, as do most of my tickets as most of my journeys start from an unmanned rural station. My tickets are scanned on nearly every journey, but the rail card is rarely checked.

 

[Towers]

Agreed, all to easy for someone like the people mentioned in the opening post to have a ticket to bypass the barriers at Brighton, then at the London end jump off at Farringdon, making use of the oyster reader on the platform to touch in before continuing. Or the foolish types who use a paper ticket from London bridge to Blackfriars which is a large red flag

Although of course their Oyster will presumably end up being blocked in fairly short order, or worse still they’ll be met by a revenue squad eventually…

Have to agree, I have an Senior Railcard which lives on my phone, as do most of my tickets as most of my journeys start from an unmanned rural station. My tickets are scanned on nearly every journey, but the rail card is rarely checked.

Doubtless part of the issue is that revenue checks can take a painfully long time nowadays, as so many people have their travel documents on their phone but seemingly very few are sufficiently organised or prepared so as to actually have them ready when asked. Staff can spend an age waiting for someone to open an app, in some cases download their ticket, and then start all over again if asked for their Railcard; it’s no wonder many staff don’t bother with the ‘extras’!

 

[Sussex Ben]

Thats for sure although they usually play the line isnt this declassified - no sir/madam thats the other end of the train - and they get away with it

Interesting (my bold) - in my experience (which isn’t that often given the limited number of checks that take place) I tend to find either a 1st class ticket is held or a penalty fare is issued. I’ve not noticed much middle ground.

 

[DavyCrocket]

On Sunday in the similar area, two revenue boarded the same compartment. They had to speak with four of the people who had invalid tickets and one who had bought the ticket via an app just as they arrived. The revenue staff member explained very clearly what had been done wrong!
I had a chat with one of the revenue after and turns out they weren’t even meant to be in this area but had been dealing with people until this way. 20 minutes later they had only got as far as the next carriage.

 

[Ted633]

I've had a network Railcard for over 2 years. I've only had it checked once.
As for Thameslink, on board ticket checks are very rare in my experience, although I don't travel at peak times.

 

[winks]

On Sunday in the similar area, two revenue boarded the same compartment. They had to speak with four of the people who had invalid tickets and one who had bought the ticket via an app just as they arrived. The revenue staff member explained very clearly what had been done wrong!
I had a chat with one of the revenue after and turns out they weren’t even meant to be in this area but had been dealing with people until this way. 20 minutes later they had only got as far as the next carriage.

Never seen Revenue on Thameslink during the weekends… What happens if someone buys a ticket as soon as the guard / inspector approaches ? Do they accept the ticket or refuse it ? How do you mange this situation and does the rail staff member see a time-stamp showing when the ticket was purchased ?

 

[jdp30]

Thameslink have very clear policy that you can't buy on the train - Very unfair for the guard to allow that when most people would have been fined.

Never seen Revenue on Thameslink during the weekends… What happens if someone buys a ticket as soon as the guard / inspector approaches ? Do they accept the ticket or refuse it ? How do you mange this situation and does the rail staff member see a time-stamp showing when the ticket was purchased ?

They should see the timestamp and refuse it.

 

[island]

How do you mange this situation and does the rail staff member see a time-stamp showing when the ticket was purchased ?

The scanning app, if properly set up, will flag a recent or otherwise illogical ticket, including one bought very recently or one bought after the train departed the station it is valid from.

 

[Bishopstone]

I’m impressed with these people who buy a ticket in seconds, when they spot an RPI. It takes me about ten minutes, and that’s assuming the connection doesn’t drop-out part way through the transaction, and that my combination of origin and destination isn’t on the random list of pairs ineligible for e-ticketing, which they only tell you at the checkout. I’d be in custody before I’d fumbled through my wallet to find my credit card CVV number.

 

[Skimpot flyer]

Agreed, all to easy for someone like the people mentioned in the opening post to have a ticket to bypass the barriers at Brighton, then at the London end jump off at Farringdon, making use of the oyster reader on the platform to touch in before continuing. Or the foolish types who use a paper ticket from London bridge to Blackfriars which is a large red flag

Which is exactly what she did

 

[Kite159]

Although of course their Oyster will presumably end up being blocked in fairly short order, or worse still they’ll be met by a revenue squad eventually…

Shouldn't do as the standalone readers at Farringdon are standard yellow readers where someone can arrive, touch in before continuing (and touching out at their destination). Similar to the various readers at Stratford & West Ham. Rich pickings for RPIs when they do blocks at those stations, challenging anybody they see touching in for a ticket they used to reach that station.

To the Oyster/contactless backend system all it will see is touch in at Farringdon at XX:YY & a touch out at say Tottenham Court Road [and vice versa].

 

[kacper]

this is very generous for thameslink

 

[BJames]

I’m impressed with these people who buy a ticket in seconds, when they spot an RPI. It takes me about ten minutes, and that’s assuming the connection doesn’t drop-out part way through the transaction, and that my combination of origin and destination isn’t on the random list of pairs ineligible for e-ticketing, which they only tell you at the checkout. I’d be in custody before I’d fumbled through my wallet to find my credit card CVV number.

People I know used to do it on NET Trams in Nottingham. App open, ticket purchase ready, all you'd have to do is confirm Apple Pay. That's why they decided to bring in a time delay to stop people doing it on the spot (was 30 seconds if I remember correctly but might be more now). I often felt like the odd one out not doing it!

What's the scam here? They bought tickets to Hassocks/ Preston Park to get through the barrier at Brighton, and they're hoping to travel all the way to London without seeing an inspector/ gateline?

That doesn't seem like a good bet to me?

There don't seem to be a huge number of ticket checks though so they probably did think they could get away with it. Perhaps travelling to an unbarriered station rather than a London terminal or doughnutting?

 

[43066]

Fair enough.
For clarity, I meant saying something to her, discretely, about the possible consequences. Many young people don’t realise they could get a criminal record

I realise this is well intentioned but, with all due respect, I’d recommend leaving this kind of thing to the staff to deal with as they see fit. Most people who fare dodge know there are invariably no consequences to doing so, and won’t take kindly to being lectured.

There are numerous ways an “intervention” along these lines, however well meaning, could go badly for you, from her rounding on you and assaulting you, calling a few of her mates (or her dad) to meet the train to do it for her, or making some sort of accusation against you. So it’s simply best not to get involved.

I say that as a member of staff myself who makes a point of avoiding unnecessary conflict (and preferably any contact with the public at all). After a few years on the railway you realise there is no level of depravity the great British public aren’t capable of sinking beneath…

 

[LowLevel]

This isn't helped by staff hardly ever asking for Railcards. I think I've shown my Network Railcard a single-figure number of times in the last 12 months.

When I first started as a conductor there was no such thing as e-tickets or m-tickets. You sometimes had to wait for someone to check multiple pockets but generally it was a pretty quick process.

Now I'm expected to wait politely as people go through "oh, I'm not good with technology, you'll have to bear with me" (as they pore through their emails one by one then try to download the attachment as we pass through a 3 mile long tunnel) or "oh, this particular shoddy app needs a data connection or keeps throwing up ads/full screen disruption advice that isn't relevant when I'm trying to click show e-ticket" or "haven't got any data, can you come back to me" or "my phone is dead" (20% truthful, 80% liar who should be struck by lightning and incinerated for wasting my time) 15 times per coach.

Consequently I'm rarely too fussy about hanging around waiting for people to fish about for or try and open an e-railcard.

What I *do* do is periodically grip an entire trains' railcards no matter how long it takes me and if I see someone trying to be cute, cover up the railcard lettering even though it shows up when I scan it etc then I ask them 100% of the time.