Blackpool Trams News

[philthetube]

I sincerely hope that much of this is inaccurate, or at least shows only a very off-peak frequency.
Why bother running a tramway system if the service frequencies are abysmal?

not off peak, peak really starts with late may bank holiday.

 

[davehsug]

I was in Blackpool this week, and couldn't believe my ears when a conductor was telling some passengers that this would be the frequency! Even on a Tuesday in May, the Fleetwood trams were rammed and leaving people behind. A 30 minute end to end daytime service is grossly inadequate for any period outside January-March. I was quite surprised to see that there were a couple of specials out running, pattern seemed to be Pleasure Beach-Little Bispham on Sunday & Monday and Starr Gate/Pleaure Beach-Thornton Gate on Tuesday & Wednesday. It certainly helped out those travelling no further than Cleveleys.
Have to say I'm really disheartened if this is to be the pattern, it's completely taken the shine off the opening of the extension and is doomed to failure, and does little to change the opinion that BT care nothing for passengers travelling on the promenade routes, either by tram or bus.

 

[Mal]

When I go back home to Edinburgh, I always use the tram whenever I can and find a 7 minute frequency is great, so how Blackpool can justify a summer only 2 trams an hour between Starr Gate and Fleetwood is just pathetic! Is this Blackpools' way of saying they don't give a damn about passengers? It certainly doesn't bode well for the resort.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Who is it who made the decision to draw up these new time periods and can they be approached by concerned residents?

 

[davehsug]

I've been thinking about this a little more and it makes even less sense!. When I'm in Blackpool, I ususally board at South Pier. On most mornings, even with a 15 minute service and despite off-loading people at the Tower, there are generally few seats after Talbot Square and it's always loaded to bursting by Cabin. With a 30 minute sevice, the same number of people will still board each tram for Tower (it's still the same 15 minute service for them), plus twice as many for Cleveleys/Fleetwood, meaning they will be full before Talbot Square and no capcity past there. North of Talbot Square, the passengers will get a (presumably) lightly loaded tram every 30 minutes, but as they won't be able to board the Starr Gate-Fleetwood in between, there will be twice the numbers waiting. I can only conclude that all it will achieve will be for people to wait even longer. Also most of the passengers boarding at North Station for say Plasure Beach, will I assume be day-trippers. Will they really be prepared to wait for 30 minutes for a tram, or will they just walk as they do now? Surely the purpose is to give people a quick and convenient way of getting from the station to Blackpool's attractions, which are predominately South of Talbot Square. The 30 minute service North is probably okay, as many of the passengers will be travelling to hotels with luggage and will be prepared to wait a little longer for the convenience.

 

[gomango]

What is even weirder about this new frequency is that one of the tram conductors told me about a month ago that there would be a every 10 minute service combined when the new line openes, so i don't know what happened to it?

 

[Tramfan]

I've been thinking about this a little more and it makes even less sense!. When I'm in Blackpool, I ususally board at South Pier. On most mornings, even with a 15 minute service and despite off-loading people at the Tower, there are generally few seats after Talbot Square and it's always loaded to bursting by Cabin. With a 30 minute sevice, the same number of people will still board each tram for Tower (it's still the same 15 minute service for them), plus twice as many for Cleveleys/Fleetwood, meaning they will be full before Talbot Square and no capcity past there. North of Talbot Square, the passengers will get a (presumably) lightly loaded tram every 30 minutes, but as they won't be able to board the Starr Gate-Fleetwood in between, there will be twice the numbers waiting. I can only conclude that all it will achieve will be for people to wait even longer. Also most of the passengers boarding at North Station for say Plasure Beach, will I assume be day-trippers. Will they really be prepared to wait for 30 minutes for a tram, or will they just walk as they do now? Surely the purpose is to give people a quick and convenient way of getting from the station to Blackpool's attractions, which are predominately South of Talbot Square. The 30 minute service North is probably okay, as many of the passengers will be travelling to hotels with luggage and will be prepared to wait a little longer for the convenience.

I'd imagine that faced with a 30 minute wait, people will just get a taxi.

On busy mornings heading south, it's not uncommon for people to be left behind even on a 10 minute frequency. I remember being delayed on a tram by somebody stood at one of the doors shouting at the conductor that she'd been waiting over 90 mins whilst trams just passed by full - the one I was on had only stopped as somebody on board pressed the bell, it being crushed full as well

 

[Harvey B]

Many thanks for timetables. Not early enough for a friend who lives in Fleetwood! Otherwise change to tram running from Star Gate! That would be 2 fares!

Surely it must be cheaper to get a day rider as opposed to paying 4 fares each wsy

What is even weirder about this new frequency is that one of the tram conductors told me about a month ago that there would be a every 10 minute service combined when the new line openes, so i don't know what happened to it?

At the very least it should be every 20 mins per route (i.e SG to Fleetwood at 00, 20, & 40. And SG to NS at 10, 30 & 50)
And then during the summer & Illuminations peak, you could always run additional peak Specials between Pleasures Beach and Little Bispham/Cleveleys (via NS)

 

[Nodding Cat Ch]

They are going to run Heritage Trams along the new line before the passenger service starts on the 16th June.
Edit:
It appears the opening date is 12.06.24, so I'm now confused

 

[Wandering Pom]

There's an announcement on the Blackpool Transport website: https://www.blackpooltransport.com/be-part-history-talbot-road-tramway-extension

Based on that, it looks like the following sequence:
- Wednesday 12th June: nothing specific mentioned - could there be an official opening ceremony this day?
- Thursday 13th to Saturday 15th: public events, including tram rides, which must be pre-booked. It's only a heritage tram on the Saturday.
- Sunday 16th: first day of normal public service

 

[Blackpool boy]

Still trying to get my head around their proposed timetable.

Not even sure if we will spend the £50 for the all in package either. far too much money

 

[davehsug]

Ignore.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Not even sure if we will spend the £50 for the all in package either. far too much money

The Depot Package tour and the full tram ride at £20 will be far more attractive to most visitors to the special event week.

 

[Blackpool boy]

The Depot Package tour and the full tram ride at £20 will be far more attractive to most visitors to the special event week.

yes the tour of the depot is always good so we will just do that ... Again

 

[Trackman]

They are going to run Heritage Trams along the new line before the passenger service starts on the 16th June.
Edit:
It appears the opening date is 12.06.24, so I'm now confused

What's the driver simulator like, anyone know?

 

[H&I]

There's an announcement on the Blackpool Transport website: https://www.blackpooltransport.com/be-part-history-talbot-road-tramway-extension

Based on that, it looks like the following sequence:
- Wednesday 12th June: nothing specific mentioned - could there be an official opening ceremony this day?
- Thursday 13th to Saturday 15th: public events, including tram rides, which must be pre-booked. It's only a heritage tram on the Saturday.
- Sunday 16th: first day of normal public service

I might do the depot tour on Saturday, but I guess Sunday is what goes down in history, right? These official opening ceremonies are always on a different day.

 

[jonesy3001]

In blackpool and seen 013 and 014 doing the ghost runs up to blackpool north tram stop.

 

[geoffk]

These frequencies look very poor but of course only two extra trams were bought for the North Station extension.

 

[Harvey B]

These frequencies look very poor but of course only two extra trams were bought for the North Station extension.

And how many trams does the "new and improved service" require? (Excluding any additional Specials)

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Had not the extension to Blackpool North railway station not gone ahead, would the current timetable frequencies still have been proposed?

 

[Tramfan]

And how many trams does the "new and improved service" require? (Excluding any additional Specials)

By my calculations it would be the following

T1 Fleetwood to Starr Gate - 5 trams
T2 North Station to Starr Gate - 2 trams
T3 North Station to Fleetwood - 4 trams

So 11 trams (out of 18) in total

 

[JJmoogle]

I really can't see this poor frequency being down to anything other than staffing, having an entire third of the tram fleet(not even mentioning the modified balloons) sat down untimetabled is really rather poor, I understand their has to be some slack of course but, this much is excessive.

I wonder if they're hiring right now

 

[Harvey B]

I really can't see this poor frequency being down to anything other than staffing, having an entire third of the tram fleet(not even mentioning the modified balloons) sat down untimetabled is really rather poor, I understand their has to be some slack of course but, this much is excessive.

I wonder if they're hiring right now

I think staffing might be part of the issue. The bigger part must be (the lack of) money as well as Laziness from both the Big Whigs at Blackpool Transport, as well as from Blackpool Council. Let's face it. These "Temporary" service cuts were brought in due to the Covid 19 Pandemic and they've not gone back to normal since

They're currently not hiring for Drivers or Conductors at the minute either https://www.blackpooltransport.com/careers

By my calculations it would be the following

T1 Fleetwood to Starr Gate - 5 trams
T2 North Station to Starr Gate - 2 trams
T3 North Station to Fleetwood - 4 trams

So 11 trams (out of 18) in total

Only 11 Trams required? (Out of 18?) I must admit, It's a disgrace

 

[Turtle]

I think staffing might be part of the issue. The bigger part must be (the lack of) money as well as Laziness from both the Big Whigs at Blackpool Transport, as well as from Blackpool Council. Let's face it. These "Temporary" service cuts were brought in due to the Covid 19 Pandemic and they've not gone back to normal since

They're currently not hiring for Drivers or Conductors at the minute either https://www.blackpooltransport.com/careers


Only 11 Trams required? (Out of 18?) I must admit, It's a disgrace

Feels like yet a further example of the general malaise infecting the public services in this country.

 

[AndrewE]

Feels like yet a further example of the general malaise infecting the public services in this country.

Yes, after a decade of austerity ("efficiency savings") and decreasing budgets most local authorities and other bits of our public sector haven't got enough money to do what they legally have to do, so taking on more tram crews isn't going to be a very high priority.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

With public transport in the Blackpool area in mind, does the current service provision of both trams and buses meet the travel needs of the local residents?

 

[Mal]

I think staffing might be part of the issue. The bigger part must be (the lack of) money as well as Laziness from both the Big Whigs at Blackpool Transport, as well as from Blackpool Council. Let's face it. These "Temporary" service cuts were brought in due to the Covid 19 Pandemic and they've not gone back to normal since

They're currently not hiring for Drivers or Conductors at the minute either https://www.blackpooltransport.com/careers


Only 11 Trams required? (Out of 18?) I must admit, It's a disgrace

Now that the Edinburgh extension to Newhaven is open the tram requirement is 25 out of a fleet of 27 with a 7minute frequency each day. A sensible use of resources compared to Blackpool.

 

[Leedsbusman]

Now that the Edinburgh extension to Newhaven is open the tram requirement is 25 out of a fleet of 27 with a 7minute frequency each day. A sensible use of resources compared to Blackpool.

of interest according to DFT stats in the year to March 23 Edinburgh revenue was £15m, Blackpool’s 6.8mn - in real terms this is similar to the mid 2000s and way down on the 1990s. Sadly the economics of the tramway are poor and I doubt it has really justified the investment in refurbishing it.

 

[davehsug]

of interest according to DFT stats in the year to March 23 Edinburgh revenue was £15m, Blackpool’s 6.8mn - in real terms this is similar to the mid 2000s and way down on the 1990s. Sadly the economics of the tramway are poor and I doubt it has really justified the investment in refurbishing it.

Surely though it makes sense to take the revenue when it's there? There will be hundreds of passengers on many mornings especially, wanting to board a tram to Fleetwood and being unable to.

 

[Leedsbusman]

Surely though it makes sense to take the revenue when it's there? There will be hundreds of passengers on many mornings especially, wanting to board a tram to Fleetwood and being unable to.

In theory yes - providing the revenue exceeds the costs - for years Blackpool has struggled to deal with short sharp peaks in demand such as Fleetwood market, not least because it’s not that affordable to run a tram just for one full load each way - it’s likely to be empty on the way back or sat in the Ferry loop waiting for the return load.

The other issue is they probably don’t have the surplus staff