Bletchley Flyover history

[donald burke]

I am trying to find out as much information on the stretch of line between the Bletchley fly over and Winslow. can anyone help, thnaks

 

[Joseph_Locke]

You could start with this?

... and then this. Google is your friend.

The only thing that seems to be missing is the recent history of Swanbourne Loop, installed as part of the Rugby Remodelling scheme to allow spoil trains to reverse to Lidlington Tip.

 

[donald burke]

You could start with this?

... and then this. Google is your friend.

The only thing that seems to be missing is the recent history of Swanbourne Loop, installed as part of the Rugby Remodelling scheme to allow spoil trains to reverse to Lidlington Tip.

Thanks for the reply. I'm looking to find out what they did to reinstate the track in the early 2000's when the track was reinstated to accommodate trains used on the wcml upgrade. If you know anything that would be great, thanks

 

[Boodiggy]

A siding with a loop was installed so ballast trains could run from Forders on the Bedford - Bletchley line where the ballast was stockpiled. The track only runs about a mile west of Bletchley to Swanbourne loop.

 

[Joseph_Locke]

Thanks for the reply. I'm looking to find out what they did to reinstate the track in the early 2000's when the track was reinstated to accommodate trains used on the wcml upgrade. If you know anything that would be great, thanks

That's Swanbourne Loop - all we did was put a loop (second track) and two turnouts in between the buffer stop at Newton Road bridge and the Selbourne Avenue bridge, at the west end of the flyover. I'm pretty certain its hand points at both ends. It was commissioned in 2006 or 2007, judging by the correspondence I have to hand.

I think there were minor earthworks on the south side to get it to fit.

 

[Railsigns]

That's Swanbourne Loop - all we did was put a loop (second track) and two turnouts in between the buffer stop at Newton Road bridge and the Selbourne Avenue bridge, at the west end of the flyover. I'm pretty certain its hand points at both ends. It was commissioned in 2006 or 2007, judging by the correspondence I have to hand.

The yellow notice (SA/24/MZ) gives a commissioning date of 5th January 2003 and doesn't show any hand points.

 

[Boodiggy]

The points are spring loaded points

 

[Joseph_Locke]

The yellow notice (SA/24/MZ) gives a commissioning date of 5th January 2003 and doesn't show any hand points.

I'm getting old, and bad at filing!

The points are spring loaded points.

With hand levers to reverse them - we're both right.

 

[Boodiggy]

I'm getting old, and bad at filing!



With hand levers to reverse them - we're both right.

Very true, haha

 

[Railsigns]

That had me confused for a bit. That loop with the hand points isn't shown in notice SA/24/MZ - it just shows plain line running up to a buffer stop. The loop is shown in Quail, though. Perhaps it was added later than 2003, which would tie in with JL's date of 2006/2007.

 

[Joseph_Locke]

That had me confused for a bit. That loop with the hand points isn't shown in notice SA/24/MZ - it just shows plain line running up to a buffer stop. The loop is shown in Quail, though. Perhaps it was added later than 2003, which would tie in with JL's date of 2006/2007.

Given that Jarvis didn't get awarded the Rugby Remodelling contract until summer 2008 and Swanbourne (West Bletchley) loop was enabling works for Rugby Remodelling, I guess I might be right after all ...

Part of the problem is that the remit for Swanbourne was drawn on a napkin*, and the scanned image doesn't have a date on it.


* I kid ye not. Pumpkin Cafes seem to supply all of the DfT's requirements for headed paper!

 

[swt_passenger]

There's a set of three cab ride videos on youtube covering the viaduct and the current limit of accessibility. This should link to part 1:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6I7toFEjP_I

The other two parts should be there on the RH side of the page.

 

[Trog]

Was the modern Swanbourne sidings saga not in two acts, originally intended as a base for the high output relaying train, and only later used to avoid spoil trains to Forder's shunting on the slows at Bletchley.

 

[DarloRich]

I have still never been up there despite all my efforts!

 

[RPM]

Never understood why they called it Swanbourne Loop, it's nowhere near Swanbourne.

I suppose it continues a long tradition; Swanbourne station is miles from Swanbourne village, the former Swanbourne Sidings were even further away and now we have Swanbourne loop further away still

 

[Bald Rick]

Was the modern Swanbourne sidings saga not in two acts, originally intended as a base for the high output relaying train, and only later used to avoid spoil trains to Forder's shunting on the slows at Bletchley.

Correct. We had a go at it in about 2000 - some outline designs done. It was realised (a bit late) that the old Swanbourne sidings were built on a gradient too steep to do loading / unloading of engineering trains in the modern era. To flatten them sufficiently would have cost a lot of cash, and also annoyed the neighbours.

 

[route:oxford]

There's a set of three cab ride videos on youtube covering the viaduct and the current limit of accessibility. This should link to part 1:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6I7toFEjP_I

The other two parts should be there on the RH side of the page.

I'm just a bit weirded out watching the clouds in the first video...

 

[Taunton]

The link above reports that the small Swanbourne yard was built in World War 2, but the big hump yard extension proposal there was in the late 1950s, along with improvements all along the line from Cambridge through Oxford and down to Southampton. The flyover was built first but the yard, for which the land was purchased, was squelched by none other than Gerry Fiennes, as one of Beeching's senior managers, who though it nonsense to have marshalling yards way out in the country rather than in the major urban areas. So Swanbourne was out, while Tinsley (Sheffield) and Tyne Yard (Newcastle) were in.

It's described in Fiennes' book "I Tried to Run a Railway".

 

[eMeS]

There's a set of three cab ride videos on youtube covering the viaduct and the current limit of accessibility. This should link to part 1:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6I7toFEjP_I

The other two parts should be there on the RH side of the page.

Thanks for the link. I've seen some of the track from the path near the Blue Lagoon, but it makes much more sense seen from the cab.

Do cabs now have camera mounting points?

 

[donald burke]

That's Swanbourne Loop - all we did was put a loop (second track) and two turnouts in between the buffer stop at Newton Road bridge and the Selbourne Avenue bridge, at the west end of the flyover. I'm pretty certain its hand points at both ends. It was commissioned in 2006 or 2007, judging by the correspondence I have to hand.

I think there were minor earthworks on the south side to get it to fit.

from your comments it sounds like you worked on the line. can you remember how you got to swanborne sidings. did you come from forders, did you ever use an entrance off wellington place, which is just off water eaton road next to the TA centre. would it be possible to see any documentation you may have, thanks

 

[Trog]

The link above reports that the small Swanbourne yard was built in World War 2.

I was once told this was because Bletchley Council objected to the stabling of ammunition trains in Bletchley Yard. Although the proximity of station X may have something to do with why any notice was taken of their complaint.

 

[Joseph_Locke]

from your comments it sounds like you worked on the line. can you remember how you got to swanborne sidings. did you come from forders, did you ever use an entrance off wellington place, which is just off water eaton road next to the TA centre. would it be possible to see any documentation you may have, thanks

I was just the track CRE; I never went after it was built. All the designs should be on eB (as it was a WCRM job). All our stuff was archived some years agot, sorry.

 

[Boodiggy]

from your comments it sounds like you worked on the line. can you remember how you got to swanborne sidings. did you come from forders, did you ever use an entrance off wellington place, which is just off water eaton road next to the TA centre. would it be possible to see any documentation you may have, thanks

There are issues with this access as the the new owner of the land where the access gate is no longer wants us to access here. The other access is round by the cemetery.

 

[donald burke]

I was just the track CRE; I never went after it was built. All the designs should be on eB (as it was a WCRM job). All our stuff was archived some years agot, sorry.

I appreciate that everything is now archived, would it be possible to have a quick conversation, as verbally you may be able to provide some information we are looking for, my telephone number is 07973660003, thanks
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

There are issues with this access as the the new owner of the land where the access gate is no longer wants us to access here. The other access is round by the cemetery.

the new owner is ok will allowing some form of access via the gate, its just network rail want a big part of the car park and are unwilling to even contribute to any maintenance costs. have you been working on the line?

 

[Boodiggy]

That is the area I work in. I know there are various things happening. I would have thought with East - West NR would have wanted as much access in the area as possible.

 

[donald burke]

That is the area I work in. I know there are various things happening. I would have thought with East - West NR would have wanted as much access in the area as possible.

Correct. We had a go at it in about 2000 - some outline designs done. It was realised (a bit late) that the old Swanbourne sidings were built on a gradient too steep to do loading / unloading of engineering trains in the modern era. To flatten them sufficiently would have cost a lot of cash, and also annoyed the neighbours.

sorry, but knowledge is limited. when you mentioned the gradient was to steep what does this mean. Before 2010 and after they realised the gradient was to steep how did NR rail load and unload the trains, did they use a different sidings

 

[Taunton]

I was once told this was because Bletchley Council objected to the stabling of ammunition trains in Bletchley Yard. Although the proximity of station X may have something to do with why any notice was taken of their complaint.

I can tell you that handling of ammo trains in World War 2 was done without any reference to what any local council might say. In fact the elderly railway staff involved (all the younger lads were off in the army) were pretty sharp in being sensible with them and not storing them near to likely air raid targets, but they just needed to be run as required and with whatever was available, and if you were near one, that was how it was. The wagons used were just general purpose vans, and opens sheeted over (as at Soham), as often as not run in general goods rather than specials, so you would never particularly know what was inside. Dedicated ammunition trains with a platoon of scowling soldiers at front and back with machine guns cocked are for Hollywood!

 

[DarloRich]

I was once told this was because Bletchley Council objected to the stabling of ammunition trains in Bletchley Yard. Although the proximity of station X may have something to do with why any notice was taken of their complaint.

I doubt the local council would have known about the highly secret nature of the work undertaken at Station X - although I am sure they knew it was used for "war work" the precise nature of the there work was kept secret for many years

 

[Boodiggy]

sorry, but knowledge is limited. when you mentioned the gradient was to steep what does this mean. Before 2010 and after they realised the gradient was to steep how did NR rail load and unload the trains, did they use a different sidings

The siding is just a run round for trains needing to go north on the WCML. Trains were loaded at Forders sidings near Stewartby and would run to Swanbourne where the loco would run round and then join the WCML at Denbigh South Junction.

 

[Trog]

I doubt the local council would have known about the highly secret nature of the work undertaken at Station X - although I am sure they knew it was used for "war work" the precise nature of the there work was kept secret for many years

I did not say they did, but their complaint could have been used as cover for the real reason for the move. Or it may just have been that there was too much traffic for the yards at Bletchley, and it was a convenient place to add a few sidings. The story then growing up to explain why there were these sidings built in the middle of nowhere.