Blog Article: Direct London-Aberystwyth services with new Aberystwyth-Carmarthen Line

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Abergavenny and Aberystwyth are colloquially referred to as just "Aber" by more than just students (there may be other examples?). In the same way Fort William is referred to as "The Fort".

Let us not forget that an actual Aber station does still exist. It is on the Rhymney line.

 

[Phil from Mon]

The Welsh Government are obsessed with having through services from Cardiff to Holyhead to provide good links between north and south. Very few people, apart from a handful of Assembly Members make the through journey.

I’ve only ever seen one Assembly member, the late Carl Sergeant, using it. But I regularly see numbers of my colleagues, public sector and charity people and increasing numbers of others travelling to Cardiff for meetings, and this will increase as more government functions are devolved. Some people even travel by car due to the perceived (please note) unreliability and discomfort of the trains. 1 tph would be overkill, but decent quality through services at useful times are needed to allow people to work on the journey, and as short a journey time as possible.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Surely it needn't be every day of the week. After all, Wrexham and Shropshire only called at Wembley Stadium during events. Surely they could have it run on a) Weekends and Fridays, b) End of term time, c) St David's day?

The railway doesn't run like that any more (if it ever did).
It's 5/6/7 days a week, or not at all (one off excursions excepted).
Fridays and Sundays are particularly difficult days to run extra services.

 

[PHILIPE]

Surely if Wales is one country, rather than two adjacent ones, then it ought to have a railway network that joins up?

But, people don't use the service they've got already. People from North Wales don't go to Cardiff, they go to Manchester or Liverpool. Look at it realistically not like the Welsh Government's obsession.

 

[DarloRich]

That magic money tree had better be working over time!

It's funny this has been brought up, because I was just thinking today how Llanelli and possibly Milford Haven should have a direct service to Birmingham. I was having a quick browse on Real Time Trains when I realised it.

Even a skeleton service would be good, perhaps just two trains a day from Llanelli in to Cardiff, then strengthening the XC services onwards to Birmingham, perhaps missing out Cheltenham Spa and only calling at Newport and Gloucester.

Why? Put the crayons down. Please.

 

[PeterC]

I keep seeing references to students using the proposed service but how many students use rail these days? When I went to Aberystwyth in 1971 BR picked up my lugguage the previous week and it was waiting at my digs when I arrived. When my daughter left York I had to drive there to collect her belongings.

 

[Hetlana]

I’ve only ever seen one Assembly member, the late Carl Sergeant, using it. But I regularly see numbers of my colleagues, public sector and charity people and increasing numbers of others travelling to Cardiff for meetings, and this will increase as more government functions are devolved. Some people even travel by car due to the perceived (please note) unreliability and discomfort of the trains. 1 tph would be overkill, but decent quality through services at useful times are needed to allow people to work on the journey, and as short a journey time as possible.

The railway doesn't run like that any more (if it ever did).
It's 5/6/7 days a week, or not at all (one off excursions excepted).
Fridays and Sundays are particularly difficult days to run extra services.

But, people don't use the service they've got already. People from North Wales don't go to Cardiff, they go to Manchester or Liverpool. Look at it realistically not like the Welsh Government's obsession.

What do you all think of the idea in that article that it would lead to customers having a choice of company on the London-Swansea rail corridor, which there isn't at the moment:

There would be other benefits too. At the moment, there is no competition on the Great Western Main Line (unlike on other main lines, such as the East Coast); GWR is the only company to run intercity trains out of London Paddington. Assuming that the London-Aberystwyth trains were to be run by Arriva Trains Wales, as the alternate 2010 proposals envisaged, then that would, for the first time, result in customers on the London-Swansea corridor having a choice of company.

[/QUOTE]

 

[Gareth Marston]

I’ve only ever seen one Assembly member, the late Carl Sergeant, using it. But I regularly see numbers of my colleagues, public sector and charity people and increasing numbers of others travelling to Cardiff for meetings, and this will increase as more government functions are devolved. Some people even travel by car due to the perceived (please note) unreliability and discomfort of the trains. 1 tph would be overkill, but decent quality through services at useful times are needed to allow people to work on the journey, and as short a journey time as possible.

Its very public sector focused so the handful of people in the public sector see the other handful of people in the sector they know and it becomes very important to them. Realizing its a niche market is something that the Welsh Government has failed to grasp with its ambition for an hourly service. John Davies the ex BR Manager had it right 20 off years ago when he looked at doing an open access 3 trains a day operation -nothing has changed the numbers that do it are equivalent to usage on the Heart of Wales line - no ones offering them an hourly service.

 

[Gareth Marston]

What do you all think of the idea in that article that it would lead to customers having a choice of company on the London-Swansea rail corridor, which there isn't at the moment:

[/QUOTE]

There's a limited amount of trains you can run bearing in mind the competing needs for paths for freight trains (the South Wales Mainline still has one the highest concentrations of these in the UK) long distance InterCity, Regional Express's and local trains. Swansea for its size and distance from London is already well provided with InterCity trains to it. It has one train per hour all day and because the depot is there extra trains in the morning/evening peaks.

Also if and only if you can find a train path which terminus in London has spare capacity for Open Access trains from the west?
Choice is a misnomer an other operator would cause operational problems and lead to more train running late on already congested tracks.

 

[bigbadhenry]

Are you someone who sees North and South Wales as 'two separate countries', so to speak?

I was born in North Wales and yes South Wales feels like a different country to me, I've no reason to ever go there and have no interest what goes on there.
Most people round here have more of a link with the North of England then South Wales.

 

[6Gman]

I keep seeing references to students using the proposed service but how many students use rail these days? When I went to Aberystwyth in 1971 BR picked up my lugguage the previous week and it was waiting at my digs when I arrived. When my daughter left York I had to drive there to collect her belongings.

To be fair, I think trains out of Aber ... Ystwyth are very, very busy at the beginning and end of terms, but that is literally - at most - about 20 days a year. And once they get to Salop and (in particular) Birmingham the traffic splits to many, many different destinations.

"Through trains to London" are a bit of a totem for places (e.g. Shrewsbury, Blackpool) but in reality there's a good reason why so many places now depend on changing onto a core service.

 

[70014IronDuke]

Are you someone who sees North and South Wales as 'two separate countries', so to speak?

Probably.
Another thread on Carmarthen-Aber, started because a wise and far-sighted blogger put finger to keyboard? Well, given the popularity of talking about the route, it has to be a great idea.
Only first, we should double track Morlais Jcn to Craven Arms, for a 2 TPH Swansea - Shrewsbury - Manchester service via the HoW. And while we are at it, buy up the land for four track loops (which will soon be needed, given the expected surge in traffic on the route) - and then set about doing High-Speed Carmarthen-Aber. Surely could be up and running by 2035, if everybody gets down to it. No probs whatsoever, surely?

 

[Gareth Marston]

To be fair, I think trains out of Aber ... Ystwyth are very, very busy at the beginning and end of terms, but that is literally - at most - about 20 days a year. And once they get to Salop and (in particular) Birmingham the traffic splits to many, many different destinations.

"Through trains to London" are a bit of a totem for places (e.g. Shrewsbury, Blackpool) but in reality there's a good reason why so many places now depend on changing onto a core service.

I think many of these crayon ideas are done by people with no idea of how services were run back in the "good old days" versus whats possible now. Journey's from Aberystwyth to London are now possible 12 times a day in under 5 hours via the Cambrian Mainline. Quite why one train a day taking in excess of 5 hours via Carmarthen would be more attractive is unclear. Back in the day when the Cambrian Coast Express took close on 7 hours to do the journey the number of other opportunities were much more limited so people gravitated toward the one through train accepting it was "spend the day going one way". Today's traveler from Aberystwyth can get 8 and a half hours in London and come back the same day if they want arriving at 1013 leaving at 1843. You couldn't reach London before lunchtime from Aberystwyth before the 1970's!

Our London traffic is spread out across the day at Newtown and that's aside from are there enough people doing it to make it worthwhile

 

[ChiefPlanner]

I think many of these crayon ideas are done by people with no idea of how services were run back in the "good old days" versus whats possible now. Journey's from Aberystwyth to London are now possible 12 times a day in under 5 hours via the Cambrian Mainline. Quite why one train a day taking in excess of 5 hours via Carmarthen would be more attractive is unclear. Back in the day when the Cambrian Coast Express took close on 7 hours to do the journey the number of other opportunities were much more limited so people gravitated toward the one through train accepting it was "spend the day going one way". Today's traveler from Aberystwyth can get 8 and a half hours in London and come back the same day if they want arriving at 1013 leaving at 1843. You couldn't reach London before lunchtime from Aberystwyth before the 1970's!

Our London traffic is spread out across the day at Newtown and that's aside from are there enough people doing it to make it worthwhile

Exactly - in 1976 you got the 0520 or 0700 from Aber , and had to catch something like the 1740 back - having arrived around midday or a tad later. Mind you - they offered a £7 1st class day return which we used several times - great fun for the WCML guard to see a few (smelly) , long haired or Afro like students in the 1st and be prepared to kick them out -only to see we were legal. Had 1st class then on the Met Camm DMU's.

Regarding end of term - we booked this 12 car train - but it ran with 6 in the end - not calling Salop - and this well before the day of parents with 4x4's happy or prepared to drive miles to pick up the offspring. I suspect today with a 7 day (excellent Sunday service - we had zilch) , broadly double the number of trains , the traffic is much more spread out. Which is fine.

 

[Hetlana]

I was born in North Wales and yes South Wales feels like a different country to me, I've no reason to ever go there and have no interest what goes on there.
Most people round here have more of a link with the North of England then South Wales.

Probably.
Another thread on Carmarthen-Aber, started because a wise and far-sighted blogger put finger to keyboard? Well, given the popularity of talking about the route, it has to be a great idea.
Only first, we should double track Morlais Jcn to Craven Arms, for a 2 TPH Swansea - Shrewsbury - Manchester service via the HoW. And while we are at it, buy up the land for four track loops (which will soon be needed, given the expected surge in traffic on the route) - and then set about doing High-Speed Carmarthen-Aber. Surely could be up and running by 2035, if everybody gets down to it. No probs whatsoever, surely?

That's interesting. We Welsh are in quite a unique situation. You would never have people in the north of France saying that they have more in common with people across the border in Germany than with people in the south of France, and nor in most other countries for that matter.

I suppose I will have to agree to disagree, for me Wales is a country and therefore it should have railways that connect up just like any other. Now of course, there is the issue of demand and the fact that the towns up the West coast are small in population. In the 1990s, with devolution, the government had a perfect opportunity to help re-balance and 'reunify' Wales so to speak but blew it. If only the Welsh Assembly and it all the offices had been located in Aberystwyth rather than Cardiff, with the capital moving to Aberystwyth, then a) Wales would have had a capital and a Welsh Assembly situated centrally enough to unite Welshmen, north and south, and b) Wales's population would be a tad more ballanced, if only by a small degree, as Aberystwyth would naturally grow. The government had an opportunity to create a more balanced and unified Wales, but turned away. And its completely incomprehensible that Cardiff, a city that voted against Devolution, was the city that got all the institutions and status from it.

So yes, we can talk about levels of demand, or a lack of them even, but its also worth asking why that is the case, namely, why Wales is so divided and mentioning that if the right decisions had been made, Wales would not necessarily be in that situation, and the demand for north-south rail travel would be less 'unusually low'.

 

[Phil from Mon]

Its very public sector focused so the handful of people in the public sector see the other handful of people in the sector they know and it becomes very important to them. Realizing its a niche market is something that the Welsh Government has failed to grasp with its ambition for an hourly service. John Davies the ex BR Manager had it right 20 off years ago when he looked at doing an open access 3 trains a day operation -nothing has changed the numbers that do it are equivalent to usage on the Heart of Wales line - no ones offering them an hourly service.

Maybe so at the moment, but with the increasing WG focus on stakeholder inputs to everything I am seeing more private sector people going down as well. Also there seem to be increasing (albeit slowly) numbers of people travelling to Cardiff for leisure purposes - Bangor station cafe had a couple of family groups at 0900 last Friday, for example. Even so, 3or maybe 4 a day, so long as they were sensibly timed in both directions, would seem about right.

To get back on topic, I can’t see any possible Economic demand for Aberystwyth to either Carmarthen or to London that way.

 

[30907]

That's interesting. We Welsh are in quite a unique situation. You would never have people in the north of France saying that they have more in common with people across the border in Germany than with people in the south of France, and nor in most other countries for that matter.

I suppose I will have to agree to disagree, for me Wales is a country and therefore it should have railways that connect up just like any other.

Not entirely sure about your first point. My impression is that local and regional identities are very significant in both the countries you mention (not to mention history!) and I could well imagine someone in the Roussillon having more in common with a Catalan, and someone in Lille with someone in Charleroi, than with each other.

On the second, as a matter of fact the principal East-West main line in Austria runs through Germany (though there is an all-Austrian route).
I can see no logical reason for saying that a country MUST have railways that connect within its borders.

BTW I am 1/8 (North) Welsh myself.

 

[Gareth Marston]

Exactly - in 1976 you got the 0520 or 0700 from Aber , and had to catch something like the 1740 back - having arrived around midday or a tad later. Mind you - they offered a £7 1st class day return which we used several times - great fun for the WCML guard to see a few (smelly) , long haired or Afro like students in the 1st and be prepared to kick them out -only to see we were legal. Had 1st class then on the Met Camm DMU's.

Regarding end of term - we booked this 12 car train - but it ran with 6 in the end - not calling Salop - and this well before the day of parents with 4x4's happy or prepared to drive miles to pick up the offspring. I suspect today with a 7 day (excellent Sunday service - we had zilch) , broadly double the number of trains , the traffic is much more spread out. Which is fine.

Today's students have in many ways a much poorer product on offer than either you or I did. (My Uni years were 89 to 93) - I never had to book ahead to be able to afford to come home just buy either the Saver or SuperSaver with my YP card from the ticket window and jump on the next train. There were busy and sometimes overcrowded trains but I never had deal with anything like Crush Country 4/5 coach Voyagers on a Friday evening/Sunday.My daughters doing her Uni interviews at the moment so shes been trying out a few trips. Shes somewhere that will involve a trip to BHM or BHI on a Voyager at the moment. My dad drove me In October and then the following June - it was on the train in-between. Whether that remains the case for his granddaughter I dont know.

Today's students at Aber will get a 2 car train regardless of what time they try, if their lucky it will join up with a unit off the coast at Mach in winter and they can then spread out. The hopefully 4 car train will be OK to Telford and then become too small at peak times around the West Midlands. Its not the lack of a through train that puts them off but price/crowding.

 

[Gareth Marston]

That's interesting. We Welsh are in quite a unique situation. You would never have people in the north of France saying that they have more in common with people across the border in Germany than with people in the south of France, and nor in most other countries for that matter.

I suppose I will have to agree to disagree, for me Wales is a country and therefore it should have railways that connect up just like any other. Now of course, there is the issue of demand and the fact that the towns up the West coast are small in population. In the 1990s, with devolution, the government had a perfect opportunity to help re-balance and 'reunify' Wales so to speak but blew it. If only the Welsh Assembly and it all the offices had been located in Aberystwyth rather than Cardiff, with the capital moving to Aberystwyth, then a) Wales would have had a capital and a Welsh Assembly situated centrally enough to unite Welshmen, north and south, and b) Wales's population would be a tad more ballanced, if only by a small degree, as Aberystwyth would naturally grow. The government had an opportunity to create a more balanced and unified Wales, but turned away. And its completely incomprehensible that Cardiff, a city that voted against Devolution, was the city that got all the institutions and status from it.

So yes, we can talk about levels of demand, or a lack of them even, but its also worth asking why that is the case, namely, why Wales is so divided and mentioning that if the right decisions had been made, Wales would not necessarily be in that situation, and the demand for north-south rail travel would be less 'unusually low'.

But its not and will never be in our lifetimes any different, using the same ropey methodology that Trawslink use to try and bolster its case the Mid Wales line has a far better business case to reopen than Aber to Carmarthen anyway.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

That's interesting. We Welsh are in quite a unique situation. You would never have people in the north of France saying that they have more in common with people across the border in Germany than with people in the south of France, and nor in most other countries for that matter.

I suppose I will have to agree to disagree, for me Wales is a country and therefore it should have railways that connect up just like any other. Now of course, there is the issue of demand and the fact that the towns up the West coast are small in population. In the 1990s, with devolution, the government had a perfect opportunity to help re-balance and 'reunify' Wales so to speak but blew it. If only the Welsh Assembly and it all the offices had been located in Aberystwyth rather than Cardiff, with the capital moving to Aberystwyth, then a) Wales would have had a capital and a Welsh Assembly situated centrally enough to unite Welshmen, north and south, and b) Wales's population would be a tad more ballanced, if only by a small degree, as Aberystwyth would naturally grow. The government had an opportunity to create a more balanced and unified Wales, but turned away. And its completely incomprehensible that Cardiff, a city that voted against Devolution, was the city that got all the institutions and status from it.

So yes, we can talk about levels of demand, or a lack of them even, but its also worth asking why that is the case, namely, why Wales is so divided and mentioning that if the right decisions had been made, Wales would not necessarily be in that situation, and the demand for north-south rail travel would be less 'unusually low'.

But if Aberystwyth was the capital of Wales, would it still have Shrewsbury (SY) postcodes?

 

[ChiefPlanner]

Today's students have in many ways a much poorer product on offer than either you or I did. (My Uni years were 89 to 93) - I never had to book ahead to be able to afford to come home just buy either the Saver or SuperSaver with my YP card from the ticket window and jump on the next train. There were busy and sometimes overcrowded trains but I never had deal with anything like Crush Country 4/5 coach Voyagers on a Friday evening/Sunday.My daughters doing her Uni interviews at the moment so shes been trying out a few trips. Shes somewhere that will involve a trip to BHM or BHI on a Voyager at the moment. My dad drove me In October and then the following June - it was on the train in-between. Whether that remains the case for his granddaughter I dont know.

Today's students at Aber will get a 2 car train regardless of what time they try, if their lucky it will join up with a unit off the coast at Mach in winter and they can then spread out. The hopefully 4 car train will be OK to Telford and then become too small at peak times around the West Midlands. Its not the lack of a through train that puts them off but price/crowding.

Very interesting comment on today's railway ......I think Aber(ystwyth) bookng office when they had one back in my day , quite enjoyed the diversity of requests they had for tickets - they had to look on the map for Strawberry Hill for example , or Chetnole ! - at least now they have WiFi on the trains ! - be interesting for someone to do a download of destinations and yield , probably some good earners there.

OT - but when Avantix came in on my local branch to Watford from St Albans and the conductors could issue long distance stuff - they enjoyed they revelled in the commission - and a download by the local manager showed some fascinating issues - Bricket Wood to Llandudno for example , and much more ....

 

[driver_m]

May get shouted down here by the South Wales posters, but wouldn’t it be better to try and connect Aberystwyth northwards rather than London? I’ve been a few times and it is a real slog to get there by road from NW England at the moment. It also seems bizarre that Porthmadog, Barmouth and Pwllheli has no physical connection to the rest of the North Wales rail network, but are a big tourist draw to Northern England and unlike those places with the tiny populations, places like Caernarfon have no rail at all, a bigger population, and a relatively straightforward ability to put it back in. I’d argue that North Wales has had much lower investment than the South under the assembly and it should have something more radical and a greater likelihood of it getting paid for, as anyone using the road through Caernarfon can testify. (Usually hammered during the peak and weekends)

 

[Bald Rick]

Today's students have in many ways a much poorer product on offer than either you or I did. (My Uni years were 89 to 93) - I never had to book ahead to be able to afford to come home just buy either the Saver or SuperSaver with my YP card from the ticket window and jump on the next train. There were busy and sometimes overcrowded trains but I never had deal with anything like Crush Country 4/5 coach Voyagers on a Friday evening/Sunday.My daughters doing her Uni interviews at the moment so shes been trying out a few trips. Shes somewhere that will involve a trip to BHM or BHI on a Voyager at the moment. My dad drove me In October and then the following June - it was on the train in-between. Whether that remains the case for his granddaughter I dont know.

Today's students at Aber will get a 2 car train regardless of what time they try, if their lucky it will join up with a unit off the coast at Mach in winter and they can then spread out. The hopefully 4 car train will be OK to Telford and then become too small at peak times around the West Midlands. Its not the lack of a through train that puts them off but price/crowding.

Oh I don't know - I was at Uni roughly the same time as you. I had two routes home from Birmingham to Surrey - via London or Reading. I tried the Reading route a couple of times; and it was a 'Crush Country' 47+Mk2s once an hour. Try it without reservations any Friday pm or even Sat morning and you were standing in the aisles, and regular reports of no being able to get on. So it was via London for me, even though that was more expensive (then).

Also saver / super saver tickets are regulated, and I think since 1994 have risen (on average) only by RPI or thereabouts. Indeed I have just checked, an 'off peak' return for the trip with railcard is roughly the same now as it was then allowing for inflation.

Agree with the point about Uni departure weekend from Aberystwth though. I once made the mistake of going to see Wolves from Telford on said weekend, it was rather cosy on the 4 car 158. Only for one stop though.

 

[6Gman]

May get shouted down here by the South Wales posters, but wouldn’t it be better to try and connect Aberystwyth northwards rather than London? I’ve been a few times and it is a real slog to get there by road from NW England at the moment. It also seems bizarre that Porthmadog, Barmouth and Pwllheli has no physical connection to the rest of the North Wales rail network, but are a big tourist draw to Northern England and unlike those places with the tiny populations, places like Caernarfon have no rail at all, a bigger population, and a relatively straightforward ability to put it back in. I’d argue that North Wales has had much lower investment than the South under the assembly and it should have something more radical and a greater likelihood of it getting paid for, as anyone using the road through Caernarfon can testify. (Usually hammered during the peak and weekends)

Reopening Bangor - Caernarfon would seem to offer better value (or less awful cost) than Aber- Caerfyrddin. Even Caernarfon - Afon Wen I suspect would have a better case (though diverting Pwllheli - England traffic via Bangor rather than via Machynlleth would affect the viability of coast/ Mach - Salop). BUT there are significant problems with the trackbed - supermarkets, tunnels, Welsh Highland Railway, bypasses etc etc

 

[philthetube]

Me too, and with some good connections, it would also probably be the quickest route to places like Bristol and the SW too. Then, just add a new fare that slightly undercuts the ‘via Hereford’ one and you’ve got a market.

Also, Lampeter would be connected too. And possibly Newcastle Emlyn which is also fairly significant (Unsure if this is on the route though)

An alternating service between Swansea and fast to Cardiff Central via the district line could be good too.

I know it gets a lot of criticism on here but I think it would do alright for itself, though it will never be the most profitable line in Wales.

I don't think there is much competition to be the most profitable in Wales. The good news is that it probably wouldn't be the biggest loser, leave that honour to Blaneau Ffestiniog.

 

[Gareth Marston]

Very interesting comment on today's railway ......I think Aber(ystwyth) bookng office when they had one back in my day , quite enjoyed the diversity of requests they had for tickets - they had to look on the map for Strawberry Hill for example , or Chetnole ! - at least now they have WiFi on the trains ! - be interesting for someone to do a download of destinations and yield , probably some good earners there.

OT - but when Avantix came in on my local branch to Watford from St Albans and the conductors could issue long distance stuff - they enjoyed they revelled in the commission - and a download by the local manager showed some fascinating issues - Bricket Wood to Llandudno for example , and much more ....

There's still a booking office at Aberystwyth. Interestingly the second year of station estimates since the extra trains on the Cambrian were introduced have just been realeasedby ORR. The upper Severn valley stations have again shown strong growth in 16/17 whilst the other side of Talerddig hasn't. The growth at Newtown has been noticeable to Welshpool, Shrewsbury and to a lesser extent Birmingham I don't think it's been in long distance leisure travel. Whilst the upper Severn valley stations are up 25% in two years Aberystwyth is only up about 5%. Given that there's significant nowhere close for AYW people to journey too and there already were peak extras from Machynlleth to Aberystwyth it probably shows frequency is not the be all and end all of meeting long distance demand.

 

[Gareth Marston]

Reopening Bangor - Caernarfon would seem to offer better value (or less awful cost) than Aber- Caerfyrddin. Even Caernarfon - Afon Wen I suspect would have a better case (though diverting Pwllheli - England traffic via Bangor rather than via Machynlleth would affect the viability of coast/ Mach - Salop). BUT there are significant problems with the trackbed - supermarkets, tunnels, Welsh Highland Railway, bypasses etc etc

The through traffic off the coast via MCN is highly seasonal and virtually non existent this time of year. It's a declining percentage of Cambrian mainline traffic since the extra trains have boosted other usage since May 15 perhaps down to 10% now. Losing some off the very top of the coast line is not going to be the end of the world. There's probably more of a year round market from the south shore of the Llyn Peninsular toward Bangor. The super rich of the North West could get to their holiday villas in Abersoch by train ( well Pwllheli then High spec taxi).

 

[Arglwydd Golau]

Exactly - in 1976 you got the 0520 or 0700 from Aber , and had to catch something like the 1740 back - having arrived around midday or a tad later. Mind you - they offered a £7 1st class day return which we used several times - great fun for the WCML guard to see a few (smelly) , long haired or Afro like students in the 1st and be prepared to kick them out -only to see we were legal. Had 1st class then on the Met Camm DMU's.

Regarding end of term - we booked this 12 car train - but it ran with 6 in the end - not calling Salop - and this well before the day of parents with 4x4's happy or prepared to drive miles to pick up the offspring. I suspect today with a 7 day (excellent Sunday service - we had zilch) , broadly double the number of trains , the traffic is much more spread out. Which is fine.

I don't remember the first Class on the DMU's at all! (Clearly too much weed in a remote cottage in Ceredigion). As I lived near Devil's Bridge, I caught the 10xx which I recall was a slightly more comfortable Cross-Country DMU. Really sorry that I missed your Class 40 train, that would have been great had it been a year or two earlier, I left in 1976'

 

[ChiefPlanner]

I don't remember the first Class on the DMU's at all! (Clearly too much weed in a remote cottage in Ceredigion). As I lived near Devil's Bridge, I caught the 10xx which I recall was a slightly more comfortable Cross-Country DMU. Really sorry that I missed your Class 40 train, that would have been great had it been a year or two earlier, I left in 1976'

There were a couple of "nice" ex WR Cross Country sets - which had orange curtains and proper high backed seats. There was a sort of 1st class on the Met Camms - orange seats to match the HST's with seat squabs on the very few refurbished sets that somehow Chester Control allowed onto the Cambrian (joke was they kept the best sets for their own area) . The Park Royal sets were without doubt the very worst.

Slightly off topic - but the way things were then - we were lucky to have a railway after the washout ,and pre RETB. I am amazed frankly now how good the Cambrian is.

And a note to Mr Marston - it would appear that the Aber(ystwyth) - so as not to annoy our Cheshire correspondant - seems to be a mature market , and east of Caersws seems to be the growth area as far as Wales is concerned....all traffic welcome.

 

[Gareth Marston]

There were a couple of "nice" ex WR Cross Country sets - which had orange curtains and proper high backed seats. There was a sort of 1st class on the Met Camms - orange seats to match the HST's with seat squabs on the very few refurbished sets that somehow Chester Control allowed onto the Cambrian (joke was they kept the best sets for their own area) . The Park Royal sets were without doubt the very worst.

Slightly off topic - but the way things were then - we were lucky to have a railway after the washout ,and pre RETB. I am amazed frankly now how good the Cambrian is.

And a note to Mr Marston - it would appear that the Aber(ystwyth) - so as not to annoy our Cheshire correspondant - seems to be a mature market , and east of Caersws seems to be the growth area as far as Wales is concerned....all traffic welcome.

The coast line was down 4% on the year before though I strongly suspect the Advantix replacement was the underpinning main factor in this. Borth/Aberystwyth flows might suffer a bit with same issue. We definitely sold fewer tickets from Newtown to Aberystywth this summer though its a market heavily skewed toward Saturday drinkers - this goes in phases. The last train from Aberystwyth is 1930, the other way they've got an hourly service from 1730 up to 2140 to come back from Shrewsbury so its more attractive on several levels.Though "shall we go to Aber instead" may be a factor next year!

Another factor maybe that the extra trains are not direct to Birmingham some people are incredibly precious when it come to changing trains.