BML closed between Gatwick Airport and East Croydon (various routes) on 12 January

[Edvid]

The Redhill / Quarry lines and branches to Reigate / Tonbridge / Caterham / Tattenham Corner will close for engineering works on Sunday, so no Gatwick Express service.

London passengers will have the choice of a Southern 2tph Victoria-Gatwick service via Epsom and Horsham (calling at Clapham Junction only) or Southern 3tph London Bridge-East Grinstead service with separate rail replacement connections to Gatwick or Three Bridges. Rail replacement services will be provided at the intermediate / branch stations (save for the Caterham branch, where bus route 407 will accept paper tickets).

More details below, including arrangements for other routes.

Buses replace trains between East Croydon and Gatwick Airport on Saturday 11 and Sunday 12 January​

Route(s) affected​

Gatwick Express between London Victoria and Gatwick Airport
Southern between London Victoria and Reigate / Three Bridges / Horsham / Brighton / Worthing / Littlehampton / Bognor Regis / Portsmouth Harbour, between London Victoria and Eastbourne / Hastings / Ore, between London Bridge and Caterham, and also between Purley and Tattenham Corner
Thameslink between Bedford and Gatwick Airport / Three Bridges / Horsham / Brighton

Description​

Engineering work is taking place between East Croydon and Gatwick Airport, closing all lines.

Gatwick Express and Southern​

Saturday:
From approximately 23:45 until the end of service, buses will replace trains between:

• East Croydon and Gatwick Airport / Horsham
• East Croydon / Purley and Caterham / Tattenham Corner
• Redhill and Reigate
• Redhill and Tonbridge

Additionally, the 23:36 Tonbridge to Redhill service will not run.

Sunday:
All day on Sunday, no trains will run between East Croydon and Redhill / Gatwick Airport / Reigate / Tonbidge / Caterham / Tattenham Corner. A reduced service will run between London Victoria and East Croydon.
No Gatwick Express services will run.
A direct, but diverted, Southern train service will run between London Victoria and Gatwick Airport, calling at Clapham Junction; this service will have extended service times.
A reduced train service will run between London Victoria and East Croydon.

Replacement bus services will run between:

• Gatwick Airport / Three Bridges and East Grinstead
• East Croydon and Redhill
• Redhill and Gatwick Airport
• Redhill and Reigate / Tonbridge
• Purley and Tattenham Corner

Additionally, the 00:23 Redhill to Tonbridge service will not run, and the 01:10 London Victoria to Brighton service will be diverted to terminate at East Grinstead.

Ticket Acceptance:
Southern paper tickets will be accepted on the following services:

• London Bus Route 407 between East Croydon and Caterham.
• South Western Railway services between London Waterloo and Portsmouth Harbour.
• Southeastern services between London Charing Cross / London Bridge and Hastings.

Thameslink​

All day on Sunday, buses will replace trains between East Croydon and Gatwick Airport.
Services between Bedford and Three Bridges / Brighton will run between Bedford and East Croydon only.
Services between Cambridge and Brighton will run between Royston and London Kings Cross only.
Services between Bedford and Horsham will run between Bedford and East Croydon, and between Horsham and Gatwick Airport.

Car park closures:
Due to the engineering work taking place the following car parks will be closed:

• Three Bridges from 22:00 Saturday until 04:00 Monday
• Redhill from 22:00 Friday until 04:00 Monday
• East Grinstead (front Car Park will be closed only, the main car park will still be open) : from 22:00 Saturday until 00:01 Monday

 

[Minstral25]

Extended bus journeys announced just a few days before it happens. Really do not know why this was not publicised weeks ago, most customers on the line are used to just turning up and catching a train because trains operate regularly all day so won't be checking journey planners and engineering pages.

 

[devon_belle]

As usual, the diversions via Horsham will stop additionally (for staffing reasons) at Epsom and Horsham, according to RTT. In the past they have let passengers on and off, too.

 

[tram21]

Even worse that this is an airport so people will 1) struggle to get to the airport and 2) probably never use the train to an airport again just in case it happens again

 

[SteveHFC]

Extended bus journeys announced just a few days before it happens. Really do not know why this was not publicised weeks ago, most customers on the line are used to just turning up and catching a train because trains operate regularly all day so won't be checking journey planners and engineering pages.

Then more fool them for not checking - TOC's regularly say check for engineering works at weekends.

 

[JonathanH]

Really do not know why this was not publicised weeks ago, most customers on the line are used to just turning up and catching a train because trains operate regularly all day so won't be checking journey planners and engineering pages.

If passengers are used to just turning up, won't they be oblivious to any publicity weeks ago?

I agree that people just assume that trains will run before making plans where the journey is relatively short, but note that that implies that publicity will be relatively ineffective.

The buses have been in journey planners for a month now, based on looking at rail-record. For example https://live.rail-record.co.uk/train.php/?c=X81772&d=2025-01-12 shows the schedule was created on 9 December 2024.

 

[Murray J]

Even worse that this is an airport so people will 1) struggle to get to the airport and 2) probably never use the train to an airport again just in case it happens again

I mean they're not doing this for fun though are they? It's closed for 24 hours.

 

[AJW12]

As someone with a flight from Gatwick on Sunday afternoon that was completely unaware and assuming the usual timetable.... thank you!

 

[tram21]

I mean they're not doing this for fun though are they? It's closed for 24 hours.

Oh no I wasn't saying they can't do it, this was in response to saying people have only been made aware at short notice. I'm very aware they have to do it.

As someone with a flight from Gatwick on Sunday afternoon that was completely unaware and assuming the usual timetable.... thank you!

My point exactly

 

[Class 170101]

At least an attempt is being made to run a train via an alternative route rather than dumping people on buses

 

[Mcr Warrior]

What are the comparative London->Gatwick Airport journey times on Sunday? Via Horsham looks to be 75 minutes, via East Grinstead and bus transfer slightly longer. Can the journey be done quicker any other way?

 

[JonathanH]

Can the journey be done quicker any other way?

No. If it could, that option would be advertised. East Croydon to Gatwick Airport via Redhill is essentially just for local travel, with the buses split at Redhill.

 

[Jan Mayen]

Three Bridges to Victoria is my regular route to work. I only heard about this on Monday. I appreciate it may well have been publicised on the website. However, as it's closed so rarely, I'd be wasting most of my time.
Until about ten years ago, I don't think it had ever been closed except perhaps overnight.

 

[westcoaster]

Three Bridges to Victoria is my regular route to work. I only heard about this on Monday. I appreciate it may well have been publicised on the website. However, as it's closed so rarely, I'd be wasting most of my time.
Until about ten years ago, I don't think it had ever been closed except perhaps overnight.

Depends on the level of work taking place, plain line renewals generally you keep one open and work on the other.
If it's a major junction renewal then it's hard to keep lines open.

 

[zoneking]

There is no bus replacement to Caterham - tickets will be valid on route 407, which makes sense as it follows the same route as bus replacement except it does not go right up to Purley Station.

 

[Somewhere]

Then more fool them for not checking - TOC's regularly say check for engineering works at weekends.

That message doesn't seem to be as prominent these days as it used to be

 

[Minstral25]

If passengers are used to just turning up, won't they be oblivious to any publicity weeks ago?

I agree that people just assume that trains will run before making plans where the journey is relatively short, but note that that implies that publicity will be relatively ineffective.

The buses have been in journey planners for a month now, based on looking at rail-record. For example https://live.rail-record.co.uk/train.php/?c=X81772&d=2025-01-12 shows the schedule was created on 9 December 2024.

Publicity on station and via information to stakeholders and their email list would have been very useful for example. Rather than just announcing it publicly 5 days before it happens. Ensuring the message gets across is important.

As I said many users where services are regular turn up and go style don't always check that specific day for travel, as they tend to turn up expecting a train. More fool them perhaps, but it is a reality, hence need to publicise when it is going to be completely different.

Whilst I am sure your technical knowledge is better than mine. I used RealTimeTrains on week before Xmas for a Rail User group post and only the Guildford buses appeared and normal trains otherwise. I guess I could have made a mistake, but I don't believe I did.

No. If it could, that option would be advertised. East Croydon to Gatwick Airport via Redhill is essentially just for local travel, with the buses split at Redhill.

Fastest route is via Redhill on two buses, but journey times have been extended on journey planners to keep the buses for local travellers niot those from Airport (although I don't believe there is much in it timewise.

 

[trainmania100]

Guessing the work is at Stoats nest or something where they need both lines shut. Seems unusual to close both lines, usually it's either one or the other

 

[Somewhere]

Guessing the work is at Stoats nest or something where they need both lines shut. Seems unusual to close both lines, usually it's either one or the other

I don't know what work is being done, but I imagine a closure of this magnitude would involve several different worksites. Would have to be planned years in advance. No excuse for the lack of notice to the public.

 

[Minstral25]

According to Network Rail stakeholders email work is: -

​ "Vital engineering work is taking place this Sunday, 12 January between Gatwick Airport and East Croydon, meaning that there will be no trains running between East Croydon and Gatwick Airport, or stations in between South Croydon and Gatwick Airport, including Redhill. Network Rail’s engineers and maintenance teams will use the line closure to carry out essential maintenance to track, signalling, power supply systems and structures at more than 50 worksites. Teams will also clear excess vegetation, remove litter and undertake routine inspections."

 

[Mcr Warrior]

Publicity on station and via information to stakeholders and their email list would have been very useful for example. Rather than just announcing it publicly 5 days before it happens. Ensuring the message gets across is important.

Indeed. Be interesting to ascertain just how many folk on their way to Gatwick Airport this Sunday end up arriving there an hour or so later than they originally anticipated. Hopefully not that many, but there's bound to be one or two who miss their flight(s).

 

[rdm111]

Yikes, has there ever been such a circuitous route between Brighton and Victoria before (three trains / 1 bus)?!

 

[JonathanH]

Yikes, has there ever been such a circuitous route between Brighton and Victoria before (three trains / 1 bus)?!

Yes, the last time the line was closed between East Croydon and Gatwick Airport, although running the East Grinstead service to London Bridge may be different from before.

 

[Skimble19]

Extended bus journeys announced just a few days before it happens. Really do not know why this was not publicised weeks ago, most customers on the line are used to just turning up and catching a train because trains operate regularly all day so won't be checking journey planners and engineering pages.

I completely get what you’re saying, but Southern engineering work information is on their website and National Rail about 12 weeks in advance..

Considering how much engineering work takes place at weekends, especially on Sundays, it’s always worth checking for a weekend journey. Even more so if you’re going to the airport.

 

[takno]

Guessing the work is at Stoats nest or something where they need both lines shut. Seems unusual to close both lines, usually it's either one or the other

It would be a bit lazy to cancel the Caterhams if the work is at Stoat's Nest

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

This is the once a year block of all lines at Stoats Nest as it has to be parallel tamped to keep the geometry fit for 70mph crossover speeds as well as ensuring the concrete bearers don't get over stressed across the joints.

The busing operation worked very well at Gatwick last year. The station ticket hall floor has direct access onto the old set down road which is no longer used by the public vehicles so the walking distance is minimal and all on the same level. The coaches were operating at a 5m frequency across to E.Grinstead with plenty of staff on hand to assist with getting travellers luggage into the storage areas under the coaches. Hitherto they tried to use Redhill but that isn't that well setup and then you would have to bus upto Purley or Croydon neither of which lend themselves to high volumes of coaches being managed. To the uninitiated you get herded onto the coach most of the time for London rather than directed towards the train. The opposite happens at Victoria where the train is advertised to Gatwick so carrys most of airport bound traffic.

The route that seems wrong for is GWR who are being shut out of the NDL as well for numerous weekends this year already to have this one as well.

I see some above said the works include clearing vegetation so will take a keen look at what they've achieved on that as on previous 28hrs its nver been touched.

 

[Somewhere]

It would be a bit lazy to cancel the Caterhams if the work is at Stoat's Nest

Perhaps they're doing work on the Caterham branch as well?
Perhaps, what the railway is particularly bad at, is actually explain to their passengers what they're doing. But I don't think the people in GTR's PR department really understand anything about railway operations

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

Perhaps they're doing work on the Caterham branch as well?

Block must be Sth. Croydon so im surmising they will also parallel tamp Purley Nth Jcn which was converted to concrete split bearers a few years back so needs to be looked after for the same reason as Stoats Nest so might as well maximise utilisation of the tampers whilst there in the area.

Perhaps, what the railway is particularly bad at, is actually explain to their passengers what they're doing. But I don't think the people in GTR's PR department really understand anything about railway operations

Majority of passengers wouldn't know what tamping was nor be interested.

 

[Somewhere]

Majority of passengers wouldn't know what tamping was nor be interested.

No, but an explanation of all the sites of works would be beneficial, rather than some vague script written by someone who hasn't got a clue

 

[MCR247]

This is probably a situation where the railway can’t win either way. I’m sure this would’ve been advertised on usual channels with lots (or at least some) of the affected aware of it. TOCs usually then usually do like a ‘final push’ in the week or so leading up to the closure, which is then reported as news by various outlets.

People are complaining that they’re letting people know too late - but normally they’d have published their info months in advance. News outlets also have access to this information and nothing prevents them from publishing it 3 months ahead - I imagine they simply choose not to because “Weekend disruption in 3 months time” isn’t going to get too many clicks and therefore ad revenue*. But in the days running up to the closure it’s much more of a story, so they’ll do articles then. Is this the railways fault?

Also, FWIW I think dealing with non-emergency engineering works is one of the things the railway is actually good at. You usually have posters at stations, pre-recorded staff announcements at stations, sometimes announcements by onboard train crew in the run up, messages on website banners, consistent information across NRE and TOC websites (well copy and pasted! ) and journey planners updated in well in advance. Sometimes you get sick of hearing about the same set of engineering works!

*an exception to this is Christmas disruption which you usually get bombarded with “NO TRAINS TO LONDON” clickbait type articles in the couple of months running up to it.