Bolton to Todmorden - break of journey in Manchester

[NorthWestRover]

1. Is a Bolton to Todmorden off peak day return valid via Blackburn and/or Manchester? I think I know the answer is yes to this.

2. Is a break of journey possible on both legs? Again, I think yes.

3. If breaking journey in Manchester on the return, could you arrive into Victoria, then go into Manchester city centre and leave from Oxford Road or Deansgate? Or does it have to be Victoria for departure too? As a Bolton to Manchester return and a Todmorden to Manchester return would both be valid to all 4 Manchester stations, I'm assuming this would be ok, but it seems a bit weird to leave from Oxford Road, for example, on a ticket from Todmorden to Bolton.

 

[Watershed]

1) Yes, it's valid via either Blackburn or Manchester.

2) Yes; the restriction code is simply B1, which has no break of journey restrictions. The only Northern-set walk-up fares with break of journey restrictions are the handful of remaining 8A SVRs.

3) The validity isn't quite the same. In theory you could use a Bolton to Todmorden ticket to go via Deansgate and then Victoria, but none of the trains over the Ordsall Chord call at Deansgate, so you have to double back between Deansgate and Oxford Road as a minimum. And whilst doubling back within an intermediate Routeing Point Group is permitted (hence journey planners will offer you itineraries via Oxford Road or even Piccadilly), this is for interchange purposes only - i.e. in this instance, you can't break your journey at a location where you're doubling back (there are other situations where you can break your journey whilst doubling back, but they're not applicable here).

By contrast, a Bolton to Manchester Stations ticket is unambiguously valid to travel to all Manchester stations.

 

[NorthWestRover]

Thanks. Point 3 is interesting. Is a Todmorden to Manchester ticket only valid to Victoria?

 

[Watershed]

Thanks. Point 3 is interesting. Is a Todmorden to Manchester ticket only valid to Victoria?

No, it's issued to Manchester Stations and is therefore valid for travel to all of them (unless an Advance, in which case it's valid only to the booked station).

However, you cannot look the validity of other tickets - that you haven't bought - to determine the validity of your ticket.

 

[NorthWestRover]

Ok, thanks, very helpful. For me, it's not an issue as I'll get a Northern Explorer 55, but my friend is only 51, so we'll return to Victoria after our BoJ.

 

[plugwash]

3) The validity isn't quite the same. In theory you could use a Bolton to Todmorden ticket to go via Deansgate and then Victoria, but none of the trains over the Ordsall Chord call at Deansgate, so you have to double back between Deansgate and Oxford Road as a minimum.

Could you not go via Victoria, then the Fixed link to Picadilly, then via Oxford Road and Deansgate to Bolton without any double backs?

 

[tomoufc]

Could you not go via Victoria, then the Fixed link to Picadilly, then via Oxford Road and Deansgate to Bolton without any double backs?

What's the fixed link?

 

[Class800]

What's the fixed link?

Walking from Piccadilly to Victoria or vice versa

 

[plugwash]

What's the fixed link?

Basically a "fixed link" is an entry in the timetable data represending a place where the railway considers it reasonable to transfer between two stations without taking a train. The "fixed link" is allocated a duration and a set of valid hours and then journey planning/routing assumes that it is possible to travel between the stations within that time.

There are several types of fixed link. There is "Walk" for places where the railway expects you to walk. There are several referencing specific other modes of transport (TUBE, BUS, METRO). And there is "Transfer" where the railway expects you to make your own way between the stations but does not specify exactly how.

The link between Piccadilly and Victoria is a "Transfer" link.

 

[Watershed]

Could you not go via Victoria, then the Fixed link to Picadilly, then via Oxford Road and Deansgate to Bolton without any double backs?

I suppose so. It's ambiguous whether using a fixed link is permissible within a Routeing Point Group (the Routeing Guide doesn't mention fixed links at all, thus leaving them in somewhat of a state of limbo), but in this case you can get booking sites to offer you itineraries this way, so you have something to back up your route in case anyone questions it.