West Coast Motors & Borders Buses

[DunsBus]

Clearly WCM can see something that First can't to justify such an invesmtent.

I know the X95 buses were brand new, in 2013. The X62 Gemini's had a lick of paint, I doubt that stretched to a retrim (but happy to be corrected)

More accurately it was a lick of paint and the application of tartan vinyls for the X62 Geminis, two of which were delivered new to Gala in 2007. The others were transferred from Livingston in 2013. Sadly the new look didn't extend to a retrim!

 

[winston270twm]

More accurately it was a lick of paint and the application of tartan vinyls for the X62 Geminis, two of which were delivered new to Gala in 2007. The others were transferred from Livingston in 2013. Sadly the new look didn't extend to a retrim!

As I suspected, based on obs at other First subsidiaries when routes were re-branded.

 

[enrag2000]

No, bought. WCM don't do leasing, they prefer to own vehicles outright. The exception being the vehicles provided by SPT for contracted services.

The OP surmised if they were rented. There is a difference between renting and leasing.
It is possible to rent for an initial period, then purchase in due course with the rentals paid being taken into account in the ultimate purchase price.
This is a common method of acquisition.

 

[DunsBus]

The OP surmised if they were rented. There is a difference between renting and leasing.
It is possible to rent for an initial period, then purchase in due course with the rentals paid being taken into account in the ultimate purchase price.
This is a common method of acquisition.

Ah, right - I didn't know that.

Up to 30 new arrivals (including the ones already delivered) are due for Borders Buses.

The two B7RLEs from Whitelaw's, mentioned in an earlier post, are 12-plate examples and are currently in the paintshop.

 

[Blindtraveler]

Im going for a spin on the X62 on Tuesday. Anyone any idea roughly which services out of Edinburgh after 8am are worked by the new deckers?

 

[317 forever]

This takeover means that West Coast Motors have taken over First Borders from First, Dunoon & Rothesay from Stagecoach and Berwick-on-Tweed from Perryman's previously Arriva.

Also, in January 1997 the MMC originally instructed First to divest Midland Bluebird including relevant SMT garages and 1 Glasgow depot having taken over Strathclyde Buses. First then had this overturned when Labour got in and Margaret Beckett became Trade Secretary.

Had this divestment happened, the only First buses in Edinburgh would have been from depots south or east of the city. Fast forward 20 years, and the only First buses in Edinburgh are from depots west of the city!

A Border Buses MetroCity in service can be seen here. https://www.flickr.com/photos/busma...ist-pGuZHQ-SbsCv7-qBdwrm-qmWJvG-qmW69f-S3WReV

 

[Rothy]

Im going for a spin on the X62 on Tuesday. Anyone any idea roughly which services out of Edinburgh after 8am are worked by the new deckers?

I don't know if this is always the case but one day last week I saw the 0935 X62 and it was a new decker.
I should see that 0935 journey tomorrow morning so will see if it's a decker then too.

 

[Blindtraveler]

Thanks for that. Much appreciated.

 

[overthewater]

This takeover means that West Coast Motors have taken over First Borders from First, Dunoon & Rothesay from Stagecoach and Berwick-on-Tweed from Perryman's previously Arriva.

Also, in January 1997 the MMC originally instructed First to divest Midland Bluebird including relevant SMT garages and 1 Glasgow depot having taken over Strathclyde Buses. First then had this overturned when Labour got in and Margaret Beckett became Trade Secretary.

Had this divestment happened, the only First buses in Edinburgh would have been from depots south or east of the city. Fast forward 20 years, and the only First buses in Edinburgh are from depots west of the city!

I think your putting to much on that Labour Government, Part of the reason was it believe with Stagecoach and First had such controls would lead to less competition, What happened? Stagecoach went into Glasgow, and First went into Ayrshire and Fife. That alone was enough to prove it didn't need to sell off stuff, who would buy areas which is getting hammered by competition.

 

[DunsBus]

I think your putting to much on that Labour Government, Part of the reason was it believe with Stagecoach and First had such controls would lead to less competition, What happened? Stagecoach went into Glasgow, and First went into Ayrshire and Fife. That alone was enough to prove it didn't need to sell off stuff, who would buy areas which is getting hammered by competition.

It was Stagecoach starting up in Glasgow, soon after the MMC issued the edict for First to divest Midland Bluebird (including its share of what had been SMT) plus one of Strathclyde's Buses garages, which was one of the factors in the edict being overturned by the Labour Government when it took power in 1997. Part of First's response to this was their Fife and Ayrshire operations.

Hindsight is a wonderful thing, but I do believe that the divestment should have gone ahead. The creation of First Edinburgh a few years later was a big mistake when you consider that the operating area of the company then stretched from Balfron eastwards to Berwick-upon-Tweed, plus the FirstFife operation. It was simply too big an area for First to manage effectively.

 

[overthewater]

It was Stagecoach starting up in Glasgow, soon after the MMC issued the edict for First to divest Midland Bluebird (including its share of what had been SMT) plus one of Strathclyde's Buses garages, which was one of the factors in the edict being overturned by the Labour Government when it took power in 1997. Part of First's response to this was their Fife and Ayrshire operations.

Hindsight is a wonderful thing, but I do believe that the divestment should have gone ahead. The creation of First Edinburgh a few years later was a big mistake when you consider that the operating area of the company then stretched from Balfron eastwards to Berwick-upon-Tweed, plus the FirstFife operation. It was simply too big an area for First to manage effectively.

I think your think, I do wonder what would current Scottish bus Scene have been like if Midland bluebird had been sold off?

* I think Forth Valley area would have a much stronger bus network at this moment in time.
* I don't think McGills would have been as powerful, nor it be in North Lanarkshire as I think First might have been able to keep hold.

* I think Eastern Scottish would still have ended up in a mess, I think First would have still went after an Edinburgh bus war, still losing in the process and because the company was smaller even bigger losses would have been made. Which makes you think would the border have been cut back even faster?

 

[DunsBus]

I think your think, I do wonder what would current Scottish bus Scene have been like if Midland bluebird had been sold off?

* I think Forth Valley area would have a much stronger bus network at this moment in time.
* I don't think McGills would have been as powerful, nor it be in North Lanarkshire as I think First might have been able to keep hold.

* I think Eastern Scottish would still have ended up in a mess, I think First would have still went after an Edinburgh bus war, still losing in the process and because the company was smaller even bigger losses would have been made. Which makes you think would the border have been cut back even faster?

If you remember, First split SMT into two in 1996 with Midland Bluebird taking over the depots to the west, plus Westfield, and Lowland those to the east. They then kept the SMT name on buses running from these depots up until 1999 - a trading name being retained for an operating company which now no longer existed. There was also a joint fleetnumbering system introduced for Lowland and Mldland Bluebird in January 1997. I always felt that First jumped the gun here, just in case the edict to sell Midland Bluebird and a Glasgow depot had been upheld by the inccoming Labour goverment when it took power that May.

The killer was the decision to go head-to-head with Lothian in 2001. Had this been done and managed properly, we may have seen the competition lasting for longer than it did. Instead the strategy was so full of holes Lothian picked up on it right away. It has been said that ever since the Edinburgh bus war, First has been paying the price for it over and over again. Hence the exit from Midlothian, East Lothian and now the Borders.

 

[Rothy]

Thanks for that. Much appreciated.

The 0935 X62 was a First decker today so it seems the allocations are inconsistent but I don't see X62s often.

 

[DunsBus]

The 0935 X62 was a First decker today so it seems the allocations are inconsistent but I don't see X62s often.

Two First deckers, 32672/6 are on hire to Borders Buses until they can source suitable replacements. Nine - 37133-6/8-42 - have been/are in the process of being returned; three E300s have also gone back to First and one Scania, 65743, was towed north last week (by First) with gearbox problems.

One of the Perryman's Berwick fleet, Volvo B7RLE 11001/Wright Eclipse ex-041 (BK10MFP) has been transferred to Borders Buses.

 

[overthewater]

So Border buses are now running E300s on the Edinburgh runs: https://www.flickr.com/photos/122507681@N02/33432015720/in/feed

 

[GaryMcEwan]

So Border buses are now running E300s on the Edinburgh runs: https://www.flickr.com/photos/122507681@N02/33432015720/in/feed

That's an E200 and not an E300...

 

[Bungle965]

That's an E200 and not an E300...

That must be one of the last of the old model E200s that ADL have made.
I'm sure they said that they were discontinuing them in 2016.
Sam

 

[enrag2000]

That must be one of the last of the old model E200s that ADL have made.
I'm sure they said that they were discontinuing them in 2016.
Sam

A large number were built for stock before production of them ceased and the MMCs started.

 

[overthewater]

But still who wants to travel on one of these on a 62? let along 95.

 

[DunsBus]

But still who wants to travel on one of these on a 62? let along 95.

I'm sure the punters won't mind too much, as long as they have a bus to travel on!

 

[overthewater]

So this is the first Perryman service to change over.

PM1121403/34 Registered
BORDERS BUSES LTD
Route: Hawick, Mart Street Morrisons to Hawick, Mart Street, Morrisons via Silverbuthall, Burnfoot, Stirches
Service number: H1 (H2)
Service type: Normal Stopping
Effective date: 22 May 2017

 

[enrag2000]

So this is the first Perryman service to change over.

PM1121403/34 Registered
BORDERS BUSES LTD
Route: Hawick, Mart Street Morrisons to Hawick, Mart Street, Morrisons via Silverbuthall, Burnfoot, Stirches
Service number: H1 (H2)
Service type: Normal Stopping
Effective date: 22 May 2017

The Hawick town servoces are currently registered on the WCM licence (along with the 73 Galashiels-Bannerfield) and this registration is simply putting all the Borders services on the one licence.

PM1121403 is the original Perrymans Buses licence with the company renamed Borders Buses. Although the two operations are currently separate, they are one company.

 

[overthewater]

The 73 is going over to border services from May. I wonder why the 51/52, 60 and 67 will make the move?

 

[enrag2000]

The 73 is going over to border services from May. I wonder why the 51/52, 60 and 67 will make the move?

They are already on the Borders Buses licence which is the original Perryman's licence although the Borders Buses and Perryman's operations are remaining separate for the time being.

The Perryman's company was renamed Border Buses Limited in advance of the takeover. The 73 was licensed to WCM similarly to the H1/H2 so only these two registrations needed re-registering.

 

[overthewater]

They are already on the Borders Buses licence which is the original Perryman's licence although the Borders Buses and Perryman's operations are remaining separate for the time being.

The Perryman's company was renamed Border Buses Limited in advance of the takeover. The 73 was licensed to WCM similarly to the H1/H2 so only these two registrations needed re-registering.

But will H1/H2 and 73 become Border services or perryman services?

 

[DunsBus]

But will H1/H2 and 73 become Border services or perryman services?

The three E200s, 11611-13 which operate the H1/H2 and 73 are in Perryman's livery but carry legals for WCM (as has already been said the services are also run on the WCM licence).

All that's happening is a transfer of these three services on to the Borders Buses licence. No doubt the legal lettering on the three E200s will be changed to reflect this. They will remain in Perryman's livery as for the moment the former First operations and the Perryman's services are being kept separate. It is planned to integrate them both at some point, but not just now.

 

[overthewater]

The paper timetables have at last come out. I dare say its a short run until there can be sure there not making any changes.

Has any more new buses turned up?

 

[Volvodart]

The paper timetables have at last come out. I dare say its a short run until there can be sure there not making any changes.

Has any more new buses turned up?

There was one Enviro200 in the new WCM livery photoed on Facebook at Alexander Dennis Falkirk last week. Unsure how many are coming.

 

[Blindtraveler]

Anyone any ideas when the new coaches for the X95 are due?

 

[overthewater]

It seems the company wants passengers feed back.

https://www.surveymonkey.co.uk/r/BordersBuses

Q18 is rather interesting:

18. Would you prefer a coach on express services on long distance routes, for eg. X95 or X62?

Hopeful it won't be to long until we see a merger between Perryman routes and Border buses etc.


You can see pics of the ex E300 stock that first used to have in Border area,
http://www.norwichbuspage.com/2017/05/ipswich-park-ride-livery-revealed.html