Border protocols at "Schengen" borders

[riceuten]

EU regs allow for the temporary reintroduction of controls as pointed out elsewhere, usually on a temporary basis and usually when there is an incident or occasion to warrant it). It definitely seems to be done on a "gathered intelligence" basis, and often seems somewhat prejudiced in application. There is a tunnel between Basel SNCF (in reality a platform) and Basel SBB for customs purposes, and the only people I have seen stopped there have been people of colour. We spent ages at Cerbere a few years ago whilst the French were checking people's passports (15 minutes when the timetable allowed for 2). Bizarre because this was on the way out, and we were not checked entering Spain, nor at either border stop on the way back

 

[The exile]

One interesting place where I've seen checks was on the train between Gorlitz and Zittau at Krzewicka Zgorzelecka. The Polish Border Guard entered the train and did a very quick visual check of passengers, while the handful of passengers getting on and off the train there were asked for ID.

That will always have been a bit of a curiosity! (At least since 1945)

 

[route101]

Police walked through eurocity service at Brenner when entering Italy.

 

[duesselmartin]

I remember years back the Thello sleeper train I was on from Milan to Paris had a check by Swiss Police at the border.

They found a man hiding in the luggage area within the compartment (the bit over the corridor) that none of us 6 people in the compartment had seen.

seen a rather rough affair just past Ventimiglia towards Nice. French police checked (only migrant looking people) the Thello EC and a person near mear without ID was just dragged under the arms away despite him offering no resistance. Police dont make friends over there.

 

[rg177]

When I took the bus from Bratislava to Laa/Thaya a couple of months ago, the bus pulled into what would have once been the border checkpoint (now just a bit of a layby with some buildings).

ID cards were checked (mostly elderly locals off on a walk by the looks of it) and I was just asked how long I was planning on being in Austria when I presented a British passport. All done in a minute or two.

Agreed with previous comments above that Romanian officers are actually very friendly. Got a smile and a friendly chat out of one on an Arad-Budapest IC service. The Hungarian officers were fairly pleasant as well but less keen on the American family sat near me who got a grilling.

 

[zero]

If I wanted to travel across internal Schengen borders without being checked I would not take IC/EC trains... I guess these people don't have train tickets either

 

[riceuten]

If I wanted to travel across internal Schengen borders without being checked I would not take IC/EC trains... I guess these people don't have train tickets either

Who are ‘these people’? I don’t think there is any greater or lesser degree of scrutiny on long distance or local trains, to be honest. I’ve been equally checked - which is rare - on both.

 

[nwales58]

If I wanted to travel across internal Schengen borders without being checked I would not take IC/EC trains...

Bayerische Grenzpolizei for quite a few years now have done spot checks on the regionals at Freilassing as well as on the move checks on the EC/ICE. Both Austrian and Italian police were on the platform at Brenner to greet those of us changing from Trenitalia to ÖBB regional trains, as usual the elderly get little attention. OTOH no checks on the Reschenpass buses. Italian customs/financial police spot check the RE80 southbound at Chiasso.

 

[zero]

I suppose they would catch on eventually

My interest at internal Schengen borders is to take cross-border buses and trams. I've never had a check on those but the number of passengers is also rarely more than single digits.

 

[riceuten]

I suppose they would catch on eventually

My interest at internal Schengen borders is to take cross-border buses and trams. I've never had a check on those but the number of passengers is also rarely more than single digits.

Much of this, as I said above, is evidence and risk led. A few years ago, during Covid, the French police were stopping people in cars crossing the border at Saarbrücken, but you could take the TER or local Forbus 30 with no issues. Hell, if you walked 100 yards up the road at Breme D’Or, you could walk across the border on foot. It’s what makes me laugh about Marine Le Pen when she talks about ‘securing France’s borders’. Choose any number of forest paths in Alsace and Lorraine and you can walk across the border - and have been able to do so for decades, even pre-Schengen.

Passports are frequently checked at Ventimiglia and Menton because contemporary intelligence has shown this is one of the most common routes used by migrants.

 

[peteb]

Much of this, as I said above, is evidence and risk led. A few years ago, during Covid, the French police were stopping people in cars crossing the border at Saarbrücken, but you could take the TER or local Forbus 30 with no issues. Hell, if you walked 100 yards up the road at Breme D’Or, you could walk across the border on foot. It’s what makes me laugh about Marine Le Pen when she talks about ‘securing France’s borders’. Choose any number of forest paths in Alsace and Lorraine and you can walk across the border - and have been able to do so for decades, even pre-Schengen.

Passports are frequently checked at Ventimiglia and Menton because contemporary intelligence has shown this is one of the most common routes used by migrants.

Yes it reminds me of getting in and out of Wales during COVID! No border as such but border patrols nevertheless.

 

[The exile]

Good luck to any French politician who intends to “secure the border” around Tourcoing. Mind you, if the Dutch or Belgians decided to be awkward at Baarle-Hertog/Nassau that would be even more interesting!

 

[DanielB]

Mind you, if the Dutch or Belgians decided to be awkward at Baarle-Hertog/Nassau that would be even more interesting!

Happened during Covid. The underwear section of a local Zeeman store was closed as it was located in Belgium, while the remainder of the store on Dutch soil was open.

 

[TheSmiths82]

I travelled on a coach (Flixbus) from Barcelona to Marseille in 2018 and border police got on at the border and wanted to check peoples passports, it took me by surprise as I wasn't expecting it. I seem to remember lots of police at Cerbere too but think they were just for show.

 

[Krokodil]

Happened during Covid. The underwear section of a local Zeeman store was closed as it was located in Belgium, while the remainder of the store on Dutch soil was open.

That reminds me of Chester Football Club running a drive-in cinema. The toilets were closed because they lay on the other side of where the River Dee used to be when the border was set in 1536.

 

[riceuten]

That reminds me of Chester Football Club running a drive-in cinema. The toilets were closed because they lay on the other side of where the River Dee used to be when the border was set in 1536.

As I recall the former stadium was bisected by the border, but all the stadium now lies in Wales, only the admin block and car park remain in England.

I suppose they would catch on eventually

My interest at internal Schengen borders is to take cross-border buses and trams. I've never had a check on those but the number of passengers is also rarely more than single digits.

It would be interesting to see a list of border crossing (local) public transport at some point - it’s a lot less than you’d imagine. You’d need to recruit bilingual staff, for one.

 

[nwales58]

Thread drift, or are you proposing Wales join Schengen?

 

[riceuten]

Thread drift, or are you proposing Wales join Schengen?

If only! But part 2 of my message was ‘on theme’

 

[AlbertBeale]

Much of this, as I said above, is evidence and risk led. A few years ago, during Covid, the French police were stopping people in cars crossing the border at Saarbrücken, but you could take the TER or local Forbus 30 with no issues. Hell, if you walked 100 yards up the road at Breme D’Or, you could walk across the border on foot. It’s what makes me laugh about Marine Le Pen when she talks about ‘securing France’s borders’. Choose any number of forest paths in Alsace and Lorraine and you can walk across the border - and have been able to do so for decades, even pre-Schengen.

Passports are frequently checked at Ventimiglia and Menton because contemporary intelligence has shown this is one of the most common routes used by migrants.

Yes - local borders are not easily enforceable in much of Europe. Over 50 years ago, being part of an event which was blocked at the Belgian-French border (near Mouscron), with the French authorities banning us all from entry, I simply borrowed a 2CV and - with the help of a local guide - drove into France literally across fields. (Mind you - I did, a few days later, get arrested in Paris to make up for it.)

 

[Capybara]

I was checked (along with everyone else on the train) on a Münster to Enschede service on entering the Netherlands back in January.

 

[scragend]

My story of being checked at an intra-Schengen border is from way back in 2003. I was staying at a campsite in Amsterdam and I wanted to visit the Reichswald Forest CWGC cemetery just over the German border. I got the train to Nijmegen and then a bus to Kleve. My passport had been kept by reception at the campsite for ID but it never crossed my mind that this might be an issue.

The bus stopped just after it crossed the border and several Grenzpolizei boarded. One of them asked me for my ausweis - I don't speak enough German to be able to explain the situation so I asked him if he spoke English. Having established that he did, I told him that my passport was behind a desk in Amsterdam.

"Where are you going?"
"To Kleve"
"What for?"
"To visit the war cemetery there"

He nodded and walked off without saying another word.

If he'd thrown me off the bus I could probably have got in the Daily Mail with that one!

 

[rvdborgt]

The bus stopped just after it crossed the border and several Grenzpolizei boarded. One of them asked me for my ausweis - I don't speak enough German to be able to explain the situation so I asked him if he spoke English. Having established that he did, I told him that my passport was behind a desk in Amsterdam.

"Where are you going?"
"To Kleve"
"What for?"
"To visit the war cemetery there"

He nodded and walked off without saying another word.

If he'd thrown me off the bus I could probably have got in the Daily Mail with that one!

You were lucky. I've used that bus many times and indeed sometimes passengers are checked. People without a form of ID are normally not allowed into Germany. Although it did happen once that one passenger without ID had to leave the bus although another one, also without ID, could continue. They seem to be more tolerant for some than for others.

 

[JKP]

Racial profiling?

Certainly my experience by Swiss officers on the Simplon route in the past. A couple of weeks ago there appeared to be a number of Swiss officers travelling on trains between Switzerland and Milan.

 

[riceuten]

Certainly my experience by Swiss officers on the Simplon route in the past. A couple of weeks ago there appeared to be a number of Swiss officers travelling on trains between Switzerland and Milan.

Travelling from the SNCF platform to the SBB station, it only ever seems to be people of colour they stop.

 

[D6130]

Travelling from the SNCF platform to the SBB station, it only ever seems to be people of colour they stop.

Funny you should say that....because I was travelling on EC 316, 09 10 Milano Centrale to Zurich HB today and two Swiss frontier police officers boarded at Chiasso, walked swiftly through the train and then escorted two men of Afro-Caribean appearance off onto the platform; all during the train's scheduled six minute stop. As far as I could tell, nobody else had their passports/ID cards checked.

 

[artemic]

One of the few international trains I've had an excuse to be on yet was the Øresundståg between Copenhagen (airport) and Malmö - it had already been the case for a few years by then (2018) that Swedish bound trains are timetabled to stop at Hyllie station, the first in Sweden, for a few minutes while a 'border control' is done - I believe this is still the case... we didn't see them! It's possible that this is slightly more intelligence-led and they only checked certain carriages, or certain trains.

Also, more relevant to Menton - at Breil-sur-Roya in France, where SNCF run perpendicular to what is primarily a line between some of Italy (Cuneo) and more of Italy (Ventimiglia), the French TER departures for Nice attract police attendance - they seem to drive up for each one from somewhere else to do a cursory sweep, and to watch the departure.
They did ask us if a loose bag on the rack was ours, but wanted no documents. Without wishing to put too fine a point on things, I suspect we did not fit the profile of who they were looking for.

 

[riceuten]

Without becoming too political - not the forum for that kind of discussion, there are a variety of reasons why migrants head for particular countries, such as the generosity of the asylum offer (this is not the UK) or the availability of work in the ‘informal sector’ (this is the UK). So a person wishing to avail themselves of either opportunity is going to want to take themselves to a particular destination (or use a people trafficker) to effect this. This is will be, in many cases, public transport, as cramming people into trucks is dangerous and usually nowadays detected. If migrants come from Africa, they normally head for either Spain or Italy. From Asia, usually Turkey then either Greece or Bulgaria. We can then traduce where the likeliest Schengen crossing points will be and where controls are likely. Hence the aforementioned Ventimiglia/Menton controls and controls on the Swiss/French/Italian/German borders. I recall Eurostar heavily controlling Brussels/Lille trains because people were buying tickets for this stretch and then overstaying the ride.

 

[Jpr463]

Last summer on the Paris - Barcelona TGV, there was a dispute between a two people who had got on at Perpignan, both claiming they'd booked the same 1st class seat, which we thought was odd. One of them mooched off to the end of the carriage without much of an argument. When we got to Figueres, a number of Spanish police boarded and did a full passport check, arresting the man who'd taken the seat along with another man from the 1st class carriage next to us. They were taken off at Girona. The police were clearly looking for them as they were lovely with everyone but didn't mess about with the two men. I wonder if the person who'd been kicked put of their seat had tipped the authorities off.
If you're going to cross borders illegally, maybe don't do it on a train that's reservations only and fully booked at that!

 

[Cloud Strife]

One of the few international trains I've had an excuse to be on yet was the Øresundståg between Copenhagen (airport) and Malmö

There were interesting problems caused by Sweden reintroducing border controls in early 2016, as the private staff hired to control access to the platforms at Kastrup Airport were refusing people entry with EU ID cards. Nordic citizens didn't need to carry ID, and the private staff were demanding passports for travel, even though EU ID cards were and are perfectly acceptable in Sweden for intra-EU travel.

Travelling from the SNCF platform to the SBB station, it only ever seems to be people of colour they stop.

A friend witnessed an interesting situation there pre-Schengen. A black passenger had somehow entered Switzerland without going through the official border control (I believe that at least one platform had nothing more than a flimsy car-park style barrier separating the SNCF and SBB parts of the station). He then waited calmly for a train in the SBB part of the station, when suddenly several policemen out of nowhere appeared and detained him for illegally crossing the border. They had guns pulled, he was handcuffed and dragged off, all without even a quiet word said.

Quite overkill, given that the barrier at the time was quite easily avoided.

Having said that, the Swiss are ruthless in terms of customs to all passengers regardless of skin colour. There are a lot of complaints online of passengers using the Basel and Geneva stations and crossing through the customs line without making a declaration, only to be stung as they're carrying more than the duty free limits. I know one professional photographer who was stung this way, as he had (correctly) declared the goods at the Swiss postbox, but it turned out that he was supposed to go to a manned crossing and pay an import deposit for the lenses. The camera itself was duty free, but they deemed his additional lenses as being liable for import duties.

You were lucky. I've used that bus many times and indeed sometimes passengers are checked. People without a form of ID are normally not allowed into Germany. Although it did happen once that one passenger without ID had to leave the bus although another one, also without ID, could continue. They seem to be more tolerant for some than for others.

Yes, it's happened to me before that they wouldn't let me in with my old Polish permanent residence card. I'd forgotten my passport, but I saw the German Federal Police at the border crossing. I asked them if they'd let me in for half an hour to go shopping, and the answer was a firm "no".

 

[duesselmartin]

I was just checked on a foot bridge from Gentingen/ Germany into Luxembourg. According to the local camping site owner totally unheard of before.