Borders Railway has hit bus services

[matchmaker]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-south-scotland-39204467

From BBC.

Bus operator First Group is to sell its operations in Midlothian and the Borders saying the new railway has made services "increasing unsustainable".

The deal in principle is expected to be concluded on 25 March.

It would see its Galashiels depot, Peebles, Hawick and Kelso outstations and all staff transfer to West Coast Motors.

First Scotland East managing director Paul McGowan said they would fully support the workers affected.

"Despite the focus on services and the hard work of everyone across our business, unfortunately the introduction of the Borders Railway in 2015 has impacted demand for bus travel and our services are becoming increasingly unsustainable," he said.

Opposite to the norm?

 

[mbreckers]

Very few people will cry over Worst Bus losing money

 

[DarloRich]

Very few people will cry over Worst Bus losing money

apart from anyone relying on the bus service.................

 

[Altnabreac]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-south-scotland-39204467

From BBC.



Opposite to the norm?

First East Scotland have been a fairly useless operator for a number of years and had to close all their Mid and East Lothian operations a few years ago without any help from Borders Rail so I suspect there is more to this than just rail competition.

 

[Jonny]

Besides, isn't there a benefit in getting busses - especially low floor ones - off the road (not just to motorised road users?)

 

[Jonny]

Besides, more than about twenty minutes on a low-floor bus has the potential to make me feel sick. I'm sure I'm not the only one.

 

[Blindtraveler]

I agree that the railway is a good cover for other things however the train has taken a lot of X95 pax and the bus is now of most help to those communitties in Midlothian without access to the railway.

 

[Tetchytyke]

apart from anyone relying on the bus service.................

First have been gradually withdrawing from East Scotland and Midlothian for years, I'm amazed Galashiels depot stayed as long as it did.

West Coast Motors taking over will be for the greater good of the area, truth be told. They've done a decent job with Perryman's down the road in Berwick.

But yes, the X95 will have been a big profit driver for them, and the train's taken it away.

 

[DelW]

Did First revise their route map after the railway opened? I would have thought that if they established a hub at Tweedbank with services to/from Selkirk, Hawick, Jedburgh and Kelso, that connected with Edinburgh trains, they might be quite popular and even encourage people out of cars.

On the other hand if they stayed with a bus to/from Edinburgh model, the train will likely have taken a lot of patronage away. Adapt or die!

 

[Qwerty133]

Besides, isn't there a benefit in getting busses - especially low floor ones - off the road (not just to motorised road users?)

What 'benefit' are you thinking off?
Less pensioners slowing you down in the supermarket as they couldn't get there?
Shorter waits at the doctors surgery for the same reason?
More jobs for you as previously employed disabled people can no longer get to their job (although the bus drivers will also need new jobs)?
The end of poor young people being able to access training and education?

 

[ChathillMan]

First seem to have lost all interest after the bus war in Edinburgh. Its been a gradual decline since then.

 

[Busaholic]

You'd have thought a bus company saying their operations are ''unsustainable'' would not, on the face of it, lead to a sale to another company. On the other hand, we are talking about First, so maybe West Coast saw opportunities which First never attempted to grasp. Wouldn't be the first time.

 

[Joe Paxton]

Besides, isn't there a benefit in getting busses - especially low floor ones - off the road (not just to motorised road users?)

Besides, more than about twenty minutes on a low-floor bus has the potential to make me feel sick. I'm sure I'm not the only one.

Er... just no!

 

[Robertj21a]

You'd have thought a bus company saying their operations are ''unsustainable'' would not, on the face of it, lead to a sale to another company. On the other hand, we are talking about First, so maybe West Coast saw opportunities which First never attempted to grasp. Wouldn't be the first time.

West Coast won't need the profit margins that First management have to achieve.

 

[Joe Paxton]

First have been gradually withdrawing from East Scotland and Midlothian for years, I'm amazed Galashiels depot stayed as long as it did.

West Coast Motors taking over will be for the greater good of the area, truth be told. They've done a decent job with Perryman's down the road in Berwick.

But yes, the X95 will have been a big profit driver for them, and the train's taken it away.

I'm not sure it has enormous significance, but when researching a journey a while back I found it interesting that First Borders (which is the Galashiels operation) has it's own website at www.firstborders.co.uk, compared to pretty much everywhere else where the local First operations just have their place on the First Group website. A small sign of being slightly aloof from HQ perhaps?

 

[Polarbear]

Given First Groups' previous record with some of its bus operations, I suspect they may have been looking to slim down or close the operations in the Borders area.

First tend to go for urban areas where better returns can be had (yes, I know there are exceptions). They also set pretty high targets for their routes to achieve.

Given the rural nature of much of the Borders area, it's quite surprising they've kept their operations in this area for so long. I expect that the Borders line will have had an impact, but knowing First, I doubt they would have done much to reorganise their services to take account of the re-opened line - especially if it involved any sort of financial outlay!

 

[47271]

Knowing quite a few people in the Ormiston/Pencaitland area who have benefited enormously from First's smelly jalopies getting replaced by Lothian Buses' finest, and the depressing state of Glasgow's and Aberdeen's city services, then I can only see the departure of this useless debt burdened shower as a good thing.

It's funny how they seem to run their properly regulated train services to an acceptable standard...

 

[Bletchleyite]

It's funny how they seem to run their properly regulated train services to an acceptable standard...

You've seen the state of the Thames Valley commuter services and stations, right?

 

[Pinza-C55]

Did First revise their route map after the railway opened? I would have thought that if they established a hub at Tweedbank with services to/from Selkirk, Hawick, Jedburgh and Kelso, that connected with Edinburgh trains, they might be quite popular and even encourage people out of cars.

On the other hand if they stayed with a bus to/from Edinburgh model, the train will likely have taken a lot of patronage away. Adapt or die!

It may be that "feeder services" simply wouldn't generate a profit since profit is more important than service now. Probably the journeys to Edinburgh were the only reason the service ran.

 

[47271]

You've seen the state of the Thames Valley commuter services and stations, right?

Oh dear, and to be fair I've never experienced that.

A couple of GWR HSTs recently, and Transpennine on a regular basis is my current exposure to First. They're both okay, and certainly far superior to First's wretched Scottish bus services.

 

[Busaholic]

Oh dear, and to be fair I've never experienced that.

A couple of GWR HSTs recently, and Transpennine on a regular basis is my current exposure to First. They're both okay, and certainly far superior to First's wretched Scottish bus services.

I'm in First monopoly country in west Cornwall, and I'd say down here the bus operator is probably better regarded than the railway operator (GWR) though the latter may have improved a notch or two in the last couple of years.

 

[FenMan]

You've seen the state of the Thames Valley commuter services and stations, right?

I use GWR's NDL and TV services a lot. Sometimes it goes wrong, most of the time it doesn't. Just like all TOCs.

Is there a problem that I've missed?

 

[radamfi]

It does need to be said, in case some people don't realise, that buses should not be in competition with trains. The new railway is a good opportunity to integrate the bus service to create new, attractive, through bus/rail opportunities. This thread probably wouldn't exist in other European countries. Scottish devolution has not lead to better attitude to integration than in England and the Scots have stupidly kept bus deregulation intact.

 

[Chris M]

Does the Scottish government have the power to regulate buses? (genuine question)

 

[radamfi]

Does the Scottish government have the power to regulate buses? (genuine question)

The Scottish Government have power to do this but have chosen not to. In fact, the Buses Bill which potentially could lead to regulated buses in England does not apply in Scotland.

 

[Joe Paxton]

The Scottish Government have power to do this but have chosen not to. In fact, the Buses Bill which potentially could lead to regulated buses in England does not apply in Scotland.

Like many other things transport is largely a devolved matter, so things like the Buses Bill are never going to apply in Scotland (unless devolution is abolished, which isn't going to happen). The Scottish Parliament are free to pass their own acts concerning bus regulation though.

The SNP used to take a different stance towards re-regulating bus services... then a certain Mr Souter happened to give them a large donation, and for some reason their policy on the matter changed...

 

[eastdyke]

The Scottish Government have power to do this but have chosen not to. In fact, the Buses Bill which potentially could lead to regulated buses in England does not apply in Scotland.

Article from The Scotsman from 2015:

http://www.scotsman.com/news/transport/should-scotland-s-bus-services-be-regulated-1-3933148

'Should Scotland’s bus services be regulated?'

Extract:
Mr McKay said the Government had no plans for wholesale re-regulation but added he wanted to see closer partnership between operators and transport authorities.

Bus fares and routes are currently a matter for individual operators who use their own commercial judgement as to the fare structure to be applied, taking into account the level of patronage, in order to provide a viable service. Transport Scotland provides an annual subsidy of £66.5 million to the bus industry, the aim of which is to keep fares at affordable levels and enable bus operators to run services that might not otherwise be commercially viable.

Clearly First Bus would not be getting a subsidy for any route where a viable alternative (train) now exists. The other local operator is probably getting all the subsidies that are available for feeder routes (to the train).

 

[Greenback]

I think this just shows how pointles sit is having buses compete with trains. Bus services shoudl be run to connect into and out of the railheads, so that communities without their own railway or station, can still access the trains.

 

[Railsigns]

I think this just shows how pointles sit is having buses compete with trains. Bus services shoudl be run to connect into and out of the railheads, so that communities without their own railway or station, can still access the trains.

That's how it would work in an ideal world. But this is Britain, and buses also have a useful purpose in serving those who have been priced off the railways as a result of privatisation.

 

[route:oxford]

I think this just shows how pointles sit is having buses compete with trains. Bus services shoudl be run to connect into and out of the railheads, so that communities without their own railway or station, can still access the trains.

Not really.

Take Oxford as an example.

GWR - Oxford to Paddington
Chiltern - Oxford to Marylebone
Tube - Oxford to Victoria (via Baker Street)
X90 - Oxford to Victoria (via Westfield)

All heavily popular and profitable services.