Boundary Zone 6 and St Pancras/HS1

[sqwizz]

I made a journey recently which turned into a bit of a mess. In the end, I didn't get into trouble, so thankfully this isn't one for the disputes forum. I just wondered if anyone can provide clarity on what I did.

My journey was Milton Keynes to Hastings and back. I had planned to buy a Travelcard (MK to London Zones 1-6), along with a Boundary Zone 6 to Hastings ticket. I'd only just discovered Boundary Zone tickets from this forum and was quite excited to give it a go. Overall this piece of expert(!) ticket-hunting gave me a price of £16.95 Super Off-Peak Travelcard + £22.55 BZ6 to Hastings Off-Peak = £39.50 total (railcard discounts applied). Great!

At the very last second before ordering my tickets, I noticed the route suggested by the Avanti website for the Boundary Zone 6 ticket started at St Pancras. (St Pancras to Ashford on Southeastern, then Ashford to Hastings on Southern). Well, in that case, I wrongly reasoned, at 6am while still half asleep, that since I'd be *walking* from Euston to St Pancras anyway, then I wouldn't need the tube or need to buy a Travelcard. Now the total becomes £13.10 MK to Euston Super Off-Peak + £22.55 BZ6 to Hastings = £35.65. Even better!

I bought those tickets and, obviously, had issues with the BZ6 ticket once I got to the St Pancras barriers. The gentlemen at the barriers let me through after I started to whip out my phone to show him the Avanti website's route (I don't blame him whatsoever, it was very busy). I got to my destination just fine, however before starting the journey home I got cold feet about those St Pancras barriers, and the fact that St Pancras is nowhere near Zone 6. While on a platform I quickly tried to Google for information and found a thread on this very forum where 2 people were disagreeing over the Zone 6/St Pancras issue, but the person saying that it wasn't allowed sounded the most convincing, and it was starting to feel like I was going to end up in the Disputes forum if I tried to exit St Pancras with my Boundary Zone 6.

In the end, for the ride home I just bought another ticket, from Stratford to St Pancras, so that I was still legal (or at least more legal, in my own mind). Stratford also isn't in Zone 6, granted, but it was the first station within zone 6 that my train stopped at, so I guessed this must be okay. By this point I was really starting to wish I'd done more research into what a Boundary Zone 6 even is.

When I reached St Pancras on the way home, of course my BZ6 ticket didn't work again, so I used my hastily-purchased Stratford ticket and was able to exit and get home just fine.

I suppose my questions about this are - why does the Avanti site show my route as starting at St Pancras? What even is the limit of the Zone 6 ticket in this case? Was my Stratford to St Pancras ticket an adequate extension to my Boundary ticket or was I still short-faring? Or was the Avanti route correct, and I didn't even need that extra ticket at all?

(Extra note: I later discovered that the Travelcard isn't even valid on HS1 in the first place I didn't know the route was using HS1 when purchasing, Avanti just said it was Southeastern and I'd never been near that part of England before, and I had thought Heathrow Express was the only place I couldn't use a Travelcard, so that's my mistake. It means even if I had purchased the Travelcard, I could have still landed in trouble!)

 

[signed]

or was I still short-faring?

You were still short-faring

Boundary Zone tickets are only valid together with some kind of Travelcard, concessionary Oyster... since Boundary Zone 6 is not a valid station.

They implement the 14.3 clause of the NR Conditions of Travel

Unless Condition 14.1 applies, you may use a combination of two or more Tickets
to make a journey provided that the train services you use Call at the station(s) where
you change from one Ticket to another.
14.3 Unless Condition 14.1 applies, if you are using a Season Ticket, daily Zonal Ticket, or
another area based Ticket such as a concessionary pass, ranger, or rover, in
conjunction with another Ticket and the last station at which one Ticket is valid and the
first station that the other Ticket is valid are the same, then the train does not need to
Call at that station for your combination to be valid.

why does the Avanti site show my route as starting at St Pancras?

If you still have that readout, please post it

 

[sqwizz]

If you still have that readout, please post it

No problem, I selected the journey again for 9:30am on a Saturday, here are screenshots:

[image 1 shows the selected journey on the Avanti website, £22.55 for a Boundary Zone 6 to Hastings Off-Peak Day Return, 1h 36m with 1 change]
[image 2 shows the route it displays after you click on the journey time. St Pancras to Ashford, then Ashford to Hastings]

 

[Hophead]

I'm confused: it seems that the tickets that you actually bought and used were Milton Keynes <> London and BZ6 <> Hastings. You don't appear to hold any ticket valid for BZ6 <> Central London (though you would have done if you'd purchased the Travelcard as originally mentioned).

 

[sqwizz]

I'm confused: it seems that the tickets that you actually bought and used were Milton Keynes <> London and BZ6 <> Hastings. You don't appear to hold any ticket valid for BZ6 <> Central London (though you would have done if you'd purchased the Travelcard as originally mentioned).

Correct. I walked that part of the journey, from Euston to what I thought was the start of my BZ6 ticket at St Pancras (just going by what it said my journey was on the Avanti site). It wasn't until later I realised St Pancras is most likely not a valid start point.

 

[Watershed]

@sqwizz there are a couple of fundamental issues with the tickets you bought.

The combination of a Travelcard and a Boundary Zone 6 to Hastings ticket would be valid to travel from London Bridge/Charing Cross etc. via Tonbridge. Alternatively you could also travel from Victoria/London Bridge/St Pancras etc. via Gatwick Airport and Eastbourne.

However, it would not be a valid combination for travel on Southeastern High Speed services from St Pancras via Stratford and Ebbsfleet. This is because Travelcards are not valid on Southeastern High Speed services within the London Zones, unless specifically routed "Plus High Speed". Therefore you would be travelling without a ticket between St Pancras and, as a minimum, Ebbsfleet - but arguably actualy Ashford, since there isn't a valid route from the boundary of Zone 6 to Hastings that uses 'conventional' routes to Ebbsfleet and then HS1 between Ebbsfleet and Ashford.

The combination you actually bought, Milton Keynes to London Terminals and Boundary Zone 6 to Hastings, was not valid to travel to Hastings at all - regardless of the route you took - because you didn't have a ticket that covered you between Euston/St Pancras and Boundary Zone 6.

Your additional Stratford to St Pancras ticket still did not cover you on the Southeastern High Speed service, as Stratford is in Zone 2/3, so the part from Zone 3 to 6 was still uncovered. And in any event, a Boundary Zone 6 ticket doesn't allow you to use Southeastern High Speed services between London/Stratford and Ebbsfleet/Ashford, since you cannot use a Travelcard on Southeastern High Speed services within the London Zones.

Buying a Stratford to St Pancras ticket, when you didn't have a valid ticket to get to Stratford, could be considered 'short faring' and could have landed you in trouble had you been 'caught'. You are lucky that this didn't happen on this occasion.

For future reference, you are likely to receive a response on the forum pretty quickly. So if you have any ticketing related queries, feel free to post here to make sure your proposed ticket(s) are valid for the journey you intend to make

 

[sqwizz]

Thanks so much for the detailed reply @Watershed

So next time, I'll be sure to get a Travelcard with the BZ6, and make sure to use the London Bridge route (which is also suggested on the Avanti site for different departure times).

I consider myself very lucky to have avoided more trouble on that trip, although I'm still expecting it to happen one of these days as I keep trying to find unusual tickets. I'll ask for help beforehand next time. Although I am aware I've upset people before by revealing a cheap workaround/loophole instead of just keeping it to myself

Thanks again

 

[Watershed]

Thanks so much for the detailed reply @Watershed

So next time, I'll be sure to get a Travelcard with the BZ6, and make sure to use the London Bridge route (which is also suggested on the Avanti site for different departure times).

I consider myself very lucky to have avoided more trouble on that trip, although I'm still expecting it to happen one of these days as I keep trying to find unusual tickets. I'll ask for help beforehand next time. Although I am aware I've upset people before by revealing a cheap workaround/loophole instead of just keeping it to myself

Thanks again

No problem. According to Google Maps - which generally uses more realistic timings for crossing London, than the 'padded' official timings used by rail journey planners - the journey from Milton Keynes to Hastings takes pretty much the same time both via HS1 and on the 'classic' route.

For the 'classic' route it suggests taking the Northern line (Bank branch) from Euston to London Bridge, which is probably the fastest route. But if you have a bit of spare time until your connecting train, you might instead prefer to get the Charing Cross branch of the Northern line to Charing Cross, where the Hastings train starts.

Alternatively, you could walk to St Pancras (ideally via the signposted pedestrian route that avoids the Euston Road) and then take a Thameslink service to London Bridge. You do need to check the timings for Thameslink though, as there are often engineering works or disruption that mean you could be waiting a while for the next service. I find it a much more pleasant route for crossing London though, especially if it's warm (as there's proper air conditioning as opposed to the oven that is the Tube) and/or at peak times (as there's always plenty of standing room and often even seats).