BR units that never were

[Helvellyn]

I'm wondering if anyone can help with information on some BR units that never were. For example, proposed seating capacities, vehicle details (dimensions, formations), proposed numbers to be built, etc. The classes I'm particularly interested in are: -

Class 157
I know these were proposed DMUs for Strathcylde PTE, to be built by Hunslett-TPL. The artists impression shows something with a 323 style body, albeit with a restyled cab. I also know that BR reserved the 526xx/576xx DMU series numbers for these. Can anyone shed any more light?


Class 167?
After the Class 165 Turbos and 166 Express Turbos, I believe NSE was looking at a third diesel unit for use on Marylebone-Birmingham services. This eventually emerged as the Class 168 Clubman under Chiltern Railways. However, these artists impressions of the exterior and interior show something that clearly looks like a 165/166 development. Was the proposed NSE version to be Class 167, or was it 168 from the start? How many were proposed?


Class 471
Classes 465/466 were replacements for Classes 415/416 on Kent Suburban duties, and I know that Class 471 was the proposed replacement for Class 411/421/423 on Kent Coast services, that would have followed on from the first series Networkers. They were to have a mix of 2+2 and 3+2 seating in Standard Class, and comaprtment seating in First Class. But apart from that I don't know how many were proposed, formations, seating capacity, etc.


Class 341
The Crossrail units were proposed to be Class 341, and there exist mock-up pictures of the interior, wheelcahir area and disabled loo. I'm guessing four-car units, but 20m or 23m bodies? How many, seating capacity, etc?

 

[LE Greys]

Judging by this, 168/0s do have a decidedly Turbo-like look to them. Essentially, I'd say that all the Bombardier ***star units are simply a development of the Networker programme, and we would have seen Networker-type units employed nationwide, just as the 170s are today.

It's also interesting to see where they would have run. Our 365s started off as a development of the 465, whereas the original 365 was supposed to go to the LTS - a role taken by the 357 in the end. GN (and probably WA) was supposed to get 381s, which might have been a corridor version. 381s would have been dual-voltage, and were supposed to replace the 4-VEPs on the Southern, while 371s were for Thameslink, meaning that the 319s would have been cascaded somewhere else ten years ago. 471s were lower-density, and were supposed to replace CEPs and CIGs. Essentially, the 471 turned into the 375, whilst the 381 became the 377, but both ended up as a compromise density.

 

[route:oxford]

Class 157
I know these were proposed DMUs for Strathcylde PTE, to be built by Hunslett-TPL. The artists impression shows something with a 323 style body, albeit with a restyled cab. I also know that BR reserved the 526xx/576xx DMU series numbers for these. Can anyone shed any more light?

Does this mean that the Class No can never be re-used - even though no units were built?

 

[rail-britain]

Does this mean that the Class No can never be re-used - even though no units were built?

Not likely now, as the standard seems to be to use the next number up in the sequence

The Class 157 order was cancelled due to the National Rail strike and replaced by a slightly smaller order for Class 156 units, hence why they were numbered 156501 to 156514 (saving some money due to common units)

 

[starrymarkb]

Not likely now, as the standard seems to be to use the next number up in the sequence

The Class 157 order was cancelled due to the National Rail strike and replaced by a slightly smaller order for Class 156 units, hence why they were numbered 156501 to 156514 (saving some money due to common units)

Not true - look at the date on the impression - 1993!

The SPT 170s are now working services intended for the 157s

 

[mumrar]

Judging by this, 168/0s do have a decidedly Turbo-like look to them. Essentially, I'd say that all the Bombardier ***star units are simply a development of the Networker programme, and we would have seen Networker-type units employed nationwide, just as the 170s are today.

168/0s are the same bodies as Turbostars, it's just the cab's that seem more networker like. The doors in the way they work and look, the cab doors and windows etc have nothing in common with the networkers, and everything with the later turbostars. Hardly surprising as they were built by/designed the same people at Derby.

 

[Helvellyn]

168/0s are the same bodies as Turbostars, it's just the cab's that seem more networker like. The doors in the way they work and look, the cab doors and windows etc have nothing in common with the networkers, and everything with the later turbostars. Hardly surprising as they were built by/designed the same people at Derby.

Yet the original artists impression shows something looking like a 165/166 with a 365 style to the interior. Hence why I wondered if Adtranz originally dusted down the ABB plans for NSE, then evolved it into the 168 Clubman (that became the TurboStar).

 

[Tim R-T-C]

Class 471
Classes 465/466 were replacements for Classes 415/416 on Kent Suburban duties, and I know that Class 471 was the proposed replacement for Class 411/421/423 on Kent Coast services, that would have followed on from the first series Networkers. They were to have a mix of 2+2 and 3+2 seating in Standard Class, and comaprtment seating in First Class. But apart from that I don't know how many were proposed, formations, seating capacity, etc.

Fleet size: 800 vehicles
Train formation: 4-car units, up to 12 cars combined
Vehicle length: 20 metres
Seating capacity: 24 in 1st and 281 in std per 4 car train
Max speed: 100 mph

Source: NSE Handbook - Brown & Jackson - Capital Transport, Hastings 1990

 

[Helvellyn]

Fleet size: 800 vehicles
Train formation: 4-car units, up to 12 cars combined
Vehicle length: 20 metres
Seating capacity: 24 in 1st and 281 in std per 4 car train
Max speed: 100 mph

Source: NSE Handbook - Brown & Jackson - Capital Transport, Hastings 1990

Thanks. Don't suppose it breaks the seating down by vehicle?