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All my points would require the reopening of the line via Cleckheaton. I personally think alot of the benefits of such a Bradford crossrail would hinge on that being part of the proposal.
But this is back of the fag packet stuff on a Sunday afternoon. And I stopped smoking 7 years ago!
No-one seems to have mentioned how these services would be affected / tie in with the new Northern Powerhouse rail high speed Liverpool to Hull via Manchester, Bradford and Leeds.
Would one make the other unnecessary or do you need both to make the whole project work?
NPR is basically services ran by TP and it is unlikely any service to or through Bradford will be diverted away from Huddersfield & Dewsbury especially the section where billions are currently being spent on upgrading it.
I think under the IRP Bradford NPR services would be seperate from those from Leeds which would be a good thing in my opinion. Although it seems that the Council wishes to get rid of the useful termini that is Bradford Interchange so goodness knows what will happen to GC.
I agree that I think that the creation of a new line would be benefical to Bradford Crossrail as then Skipton and Ikley could have a fast direct service to Manchester if they so wished. As NPR services from Leeds certainly wont be going via Bradford. Perhaps this could also offer a much faster service from Colne should that be reinstated. Im not sure how much but I suspect it would also free up capacity on the Aire Valley.
As a freight route is certainly an interesting idea and would remove the need to head via Leeds. Surely that must benefical ? Freight services would still have to go via Ravensthorpe thou although shortly it won't matter as a dive under is being constructed.
I certainly wouldn't bother routing Calder Valley services through Shipley, well services to York, as for other Manchester services I can see it useful to be able to terminate services easily on the North side of Leeds station. FYI I dont have reversal anxiety as for me Im more than happy to see services carry on reversing.
Nor would I get rid of either of Bradfords existing stations both which offer useful terminating capacity. Although realigning the Interchange Eastwards slightly may be benefical.
My comment was a bit tongue-in-cheek. As far as I know, Network North promised a new Bradford station, and I'm not aware that's been cancelled (I think it was previously cancelled and then uncancelled once or twice). I don't actually expect anything will be built though.
I know the figures for "how big a city is" but these figures from the ONS seem ridiculous. It counts Horsforth separately from Leeds for example. Horsforth is most definitely Leeds, in the ring road and part of the built up area
Horsforth has been in Leeds metropolitan district (City of Leeds) since 1974; but most of it is north of the Outer Ring Road, including the rail station.
And, like Horsforth, was not part of "Leeds" until 1974.
Oddly, if you type "Leeds" into Google Maps it doesn't show the current boundaries; Horsforth and Pudsey are both outside (Kirkstall Forge Station is only just inside). I'm drifting off-topic, but I can see why the two towns might be counted separately from "Leeds".
I think that we need both a red and a green crayon for Bradford Crossrail.
The green crayon highlights the advantages of network mobility between the dispersed but populous Pennine towns situated mostly in the river valleys where the rails (and canals) run. This differs from tbe London area in that it is not focussed on a single centre. Each of the towns listed could produce a station footfall of c1M (many do). Also the elimination of lay-overs at terminals is a significant gain, as in Thameslink, Merseyrail's Link and B'hams's Cross City. A new central station would be also highly synergetic, with an attached covered shopping centre and would compete well with Leeds.
The red crayon (which at the moment must win) highlights the blocking of the cross city route, including the incline needed to match heights, by modern developments, which an intelligent City planning policy could have avoided.
The Joker of course is the proposed new (third?) station (Adolphus Street?).
Bra'ford has chosen roads over rails, so must live with the result.
We were told at a Bradford Council/Focus meeting tonight that Bradford will receive a new four-platform central station which will co exist alongside the Interchange and Forster Square.
We were told at a Bradford Council/Focus meeting tonight that Bradford will receive a new four-platform central station which will co exist alongside the Interchange and Forster Square.
Was it confirmed whether this would be a heavy rail station on the national rail network or a light rail/tram station for the proposed West Yorkshire rapid transit system? Four platforms for the latter is more than enough for the latter's initial network but would provide future proofing for later expansion.
Would Bradford Central be connected to the other stations, or would they be on 3 separate sets of lines? Appreciate there may have been no other information?
We were told at a Bradford Council/Focus meeting tonight that Bradford will receive a new four-platform central station which will co exist alongside the Interchange and Forster Square.
Surely the 2 existing stations wouldn't be needed anymore (only keep one of them) if Bradford got a Central Station? Interchange to Forster Square is barely more than a 10 minute walk. I'm assuming this new station is the revival of Bradford Crossrail? I could be wrong though. And wouldn't a new station there need to be underground?
Surely the 2 existing stations wouldn't be needed anymore (only keep one of them) if Bradford got a Central Station? Interchange to Forster Square is barely more than a 10 minute walk. I'm assuming this new station is the revival of Bradford Crossrail? I could be wrong though. And wouldn't a new station there need to be underground?
The last plans for a through station were to be in the St. James' Market area, on the other side of the ring-road so not exactly 'Central', and would have replaced Interchange. Earlier plans were for an underground station in the 'Little Germany' area, closer to the city-centre. There is a proposal, however, for a new line up the Spen Valley from NPR to Bradford which might imply a revival of the crossrail scheme between Interchange and Forster Square. Interesting times!
Linking the two terminal stations in Bradford has been proposed before but never achieved because the cost would be enormous! And while it would be nice to have one central Bradford station, would traffic need would it actually serve - ie what trains would run through?
Linking the two terminal stations in Bradford has been proposed before but never achieved because the cost would be enormous! And while it would be nice to have one central Bradford station, would traffic need would it actually serve - ie what trains would run through?
Leeds-Bradford-Leeds circulars? That would provide quite a bit of extra local connectivity for journeys that wouldn't make sense by train at the moment. You could extend the current Forster Square terminating services to run back to Leeds via Interchange, for example (if there are paths).
Linking the two terminal stations in Bradford has been proposed before but never achieved because the cost would be enormous! And while it would be nice to have one central Bradford station, would traffic need would it actually serve - ie what trains would run through?
Presumably you would have some trains going from the southwest to the northeast go through so Halifax, Bradford x2, Shipley, Leeds. From northwest Skipton, Bradford x2, Bramley, Leeds.
There wasn't really a clear service benefit that any one could seem to think of (although of course we may just have missed them, whatever they might be!)
We were told at a Bradford Council/Focus meeting tonight that Bradford will receive a new four-platform central station which will co exist alongside the Interchange and Forster Square.
Interesting. I guess we'll have to wait for confirmation from the Government of this and what it means. Much as I would love a Bradford Crossrail scheme, I don't for a second believe the Government would commit to something so expensive in the current climate. And realistically, any Crossrail scheme doesn't fit the description of a new station alongside the two existing ones - because there'd be no need to have three stations in such close proximity along the same stretch of line. So my best guess is it's going to be something more like, reopening the Interchange avoiding line, sticking a station on that, and optimistically describing this new station as 'central'.
One thing that I imagine would be very useful is that it'll mean everything from Bradford to Leeds would depart from the same station. At the moment you have two stations, neither of them really offering a turn-up-and-go frequency - which isn't really that helpful compared to, if there was at least one station from which you know there'd never be more than a 10 minute wait for the next train to Leeds during the day.
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But... what... what do we do? Is there a wildly massive flow from Bingley to Todmorden we've unlocked that we need to enable with diagrams? What routes would we actually run? Is Kirkstall Forge to Rochdale the great demand that merited this route?
There's no single journey with massive demand that you'd enable, but I don't think that's the point: It's more that there are a lot of places North of Bradford and a lot of places South of Bradford that you would link up, without requiring a detour into Leeds. So you'd be aggregating people doing Keighley to Rochdale, Shipley to Halifax, Ilkley to Brighouse, and so on: None of them individually a huge flow but collectively adding a lot of new passengers who currently are more likely to drive.
In terms of what services I'd provide if Interchange and Forster Square were linked, I'd suggest:
1. Extend the Skipton-Bradford and Ilkley-Bradford services to Leeds via New Pudsey, making these services half-hourly throughout the day, and adding a half-hourly Leeds-Pudsey-Bradford-Shipley to get a 10 minute frequency along that corridor.
2. Merge the Leeds-Forster Square and Bradford-Huddersfield services into a half hourly Leeds-Shipley-Bradford-Halifax-Huddersfield service
3. Have all the existing Leeds-Bradford Interchange-Lancashire/Manchester services run non-stop between Leeds and Bradford. They can then take whichever Leeds-Bradford line will be quickest to path around the other services.
I would suggest it vastly more sensible than reopening Aberystwyth to Carmarthen, or extending the Borders route to Carlisle. Not going to happen, but it's not that ludicrous an idea
It'll probably never happen, but if it did then it would be a great opportunity to improve connectivity across West Yorkshire, and put Bradford at the centre of a web of lines and services, rather than being a peripheral place more defined (in a rail sense at least) by it's proximity to Leeds then itself.
It'll probably never happen, but if it did then it would be a great opportunity to improve connectivity across West Yorkshire, and put Bradford at the centre of a web of lines and services, rather than being a peripheral place more defined (in a rail sense at least) by it's proximity to Leeds then itself.
Bradford is lucky to even be on the periphery. It is the poster boy for towns/cities that have lost their reason for existence and will never recover no matter how much money you throw at it. And demolishing half of the city centre to drive a pointless railway through it certainly wouldn't help.
Bradford is lucky to even be on the periphery. It is the poster boy for towns/cities that have lost their reason for existence and will never recover no matter how much money you throw at it. And demolishing half of the city centre to drive a pointless railway through it certainly wouldn't help.
Bradford is lucky to even be on the periphery. It is the poster boy for towns/cities that have lost their reason for existence and will never recover no matter how much money you throw at it. And demolishing half of the city centre to drive a pointless railway through it certainly wouldn't help.
If you could deliver a 6tph frequency across Bradford, with 4tph to Leeds, then you'd find that it may not need a reason to exist other than a housing estate for Leeds (of course it would be more than that, but the point is it doesn't need a reason - and it's likely that could come later).
There is a bit of a difference in that people don't continually make bizarre claims that one day Merthyr Tydfil could rival Cardiff as the regional centre like people do with Bradford rivalling Leeds.
If you could deliver a 6tph frequency across Bradford, with 4tph to Leeds, then you'd find that it may not need a reason to exist other than a housing estate for Leeds (of course it would be more than that, but the point is it doesn't need a reason - and it's likely that could come later).
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