Bradford Southern Gateway Station

[xotGD]

Is this the idea? (Obvs the pink!)

That just means an even longer walk between stations, not a Bradford Hauptbahnhof.

Forget it.

 

[matacaster]

By having 3 separate stations, Bradford is seeking to have the same level of integrated rail transport as Pontefract. Complete waste of time and money, like NPR via Bradford before it.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

By having 3 separate stations, Bradford is seeking to have the same level of integrated rail transport as Pontefract. Complete waste of time and money, like NPR via Bradford before it.

To be fair, two of Pontecarlo's three stations are at least connected by rail... though I'd be surprised if there's much traffic between the two.

 

[30907]

By having 3 separate stations, Bradford is seeking to have the same level of integrated rail transport as Pontefract. Complete waste of time and money, like NPR via Bradford before it.

I was assuming Interchange would close (and the bus station too).

 

[YorksLad12]

To be fair, two of Pontecarlo's three stations are at least connected by rail... though I'd be surprised if there's much traffic between the two.

And the third one was connected to the other two until services were withdrawn in the 1960s. Sadly, part of that alignment wa been built on, I can think of a use for it

 

[MichaelTrains]

I was assuming Interchange would close (and the bus station too).

It would stay open but the new Gateway station would be the new main station with through line running.

That is the response I got back from the council.

 

[Bantamzen]

It would stay open but the new Gateway station would be the new main station with through line running.

That is the response I got back from the council.

I think that response from Bradford Council sums it up nicely. The "main" station would be the furthest away from the city centre, with the worst connectivity.

File under the "Very Large Crayola" section...

 

[yoyothehobo]

It would stay open but the new Gateway station would be the new main station with through line running.

That is the response I got back from the council.

The fact there is someone being paid to respond to this crayola dream is already a waste of money

 

[30907]

It would stay open but the new Gateway station would be the new main station with through line running.

That is the response I got back from the council.

Apologies, I hadn't realised that. It makes very little sense (except for flows like Halifax-Leeds which would benefit).

 

[Snow1964]

Just published by DfT 17th June

As set out in the Integrated Rail Plan, the government remains committed to upgrading and electrifying the existing line between Bradford Interchange and Leeds, which could deliver a 12-minute journey time and help decarbonise the railway within the next decade. Government will also reassess evidence to improve connectivity in Bradford, including examining the case for a new station.

New study into running HS2 train services to Leeds launches

Study will assess potential options to run HS2 trains into Leeds city centre and reassess evidence to improve connectivity in Bradford.

www.gov.uk

 

[MichaelTrains]

Bradford Interchange (as successor to the old Exchange station) always seems reasonably busy, even if somewhat smaller than it must have been in its heyday, but Bradford Forster Square station just seems to be the City Centre equivalent of Blackpool South.

Although starting/finishing short with an Advance ticket is not strictly in accordance with the rules for Advance tickets, the policy of the Rail industry is that no additional fare should be charged (unless there is clear evidence of intent to try and avoid a higher fare).

Just published by DfT 17th June

New study into running HS2 train services to Leeds launches

Study will assess potential options to run HS2 trains into Leeds city centre and reassess evidence to improve connectivity in Bradford.

www.gov.uk

Excellent news Snow 1964.

Things could be looking up for Bradford at last.

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

Excellent news Snow 1964.

Things could be looking up for Bradford at last.

Just keeping the red wall happy I suspect and other than a glossy report and a convincing argument to build it the money wont be there for at least another decade.

 

[snowball]

This is just an announcement of the terms of reference of the study that was promised in the IRP. In other words, an admission that the study promised 20 months ago hasn't started yet.

 

[MichaelTrains]

The more you think about it, the electrification of the Leeds to Bradford route would only realistically see LNER benefit.

I presume the 12 minute journey is doable?

The quickest I've ever done Bradford to Leeds with Northern was 17 minutes and that was when the Wigan trains were diverted and didn't call at New Pudsey or Bramley.

 

[willgreen]

Presumably there would be scope to run the York-Leeds stopper through to Bradford if both halves were electrified but the general disparity between trains terminating from the west of Leeds, compared to those terminating from the east, does make it a bit trickier to realise any benefits/

 

[yoyothehobo]

The more you think about it, the electrification of the Leeds to Bradford route would only realistically see LNER benefit.

I presume the 12 minute journey is doable?

The quickest I've ever done Bradford to Leeds with Northern was 17 minutes and that was when the Wigan trains were diverted and didn't call at New Pudsey or Bramley.

Why would it benefit LNER?

Electrification up to Bradford from Leeds would be useful as it is quite the climb, especially on a crush loaded 150/158/(142 back in the day), 195s arent so bad up the hill, but its still a slog.

The curve coming out of Interchange though would reduce a lot of acceleration benefits i suppose though.

LNER i suppose could run a Bradford-Edinburgh-Aberdeen service, though there is nothing stopping them now...

There used to be a York-Bradford all stops (which would be handy for me commuting as the Blackpool North Train misses out Bramley)

 

[BrianW]

Just keeping the red wall happy I suspect and other than a glossy report and a convincing argument to build it the money wont be there for at least another decade.

This is just an announcement of the terms of reference of the study that was promised in the IRP. In other words, an admission that the study promised 20 months ago hasn't started yet.

At least two more years of long grass.

One mention of Bradford in here: https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/hs2-to-leeds-study/hs2-to-leeds-study-terms-of-reference

 

[MichaelTrains]

Why would it benefit LNER?

Electrification up to Bradford from Leeds would be useful as it is quite the climb, especially on a crush loaded 150/158/(142 back in the day), 195s arent so bad up the hill, but its still a slog.

The curve coming out of Interchange though would reduce a lot of acceleration benefits i suppose though.

LNER i suppose could run a Bradford-Edinburgh-Aberdeen service, though there is nothing stopping them now...

There used to be a York-Bradford all stops (which would be handy for me commuting as the Blackpool North Train misses out Bramley)

What electric trains do Northern currently have that are available for this route that would benefit from going under the wires?

That's why I said it would benefit LNER in the long run.

Has anyone ever costed how much the Calder Valley line would cost to electrify?

 

[Neptune]

Leeds - Bradford Interchange electrification would enable bi-mode trains to work the Calder Valley. If (and it’s a big if) it happens then it could be the start of phased electrification of the Calder Valley, for instance the next phase could be Bradford - Halifax and Huddersfield and also Man Vic - Rochdale then eventually fill in the gaps. Not an easy route to do thanks to the multiple tunnels.

Bradford southern gateway should not be built in my opinion simply as it would be in the wrong place outside the city centre and is just a typical Bradford Clowncil vanity project. Only that inept bunch could back a plan to take trains out of the city centre and claim that it’s a benefit.

 

[Bantamzen]

Leeds - Bradford Interchange electrification would enable bi-mode trains to work the Calder Valley. If (and it’s a big if) it happens then it could be the start of phased electrification of the Calder Valley, for instance the next phase could be Bradford - Halifax and Huddersfield and also Man Vic - Rochdale then eventually fill in the gaps. Not an easy route to do thanks to the multiple tunnels.

I suspect that wiring Leeds - Bradford Interchange might ultimately form the first bit of enabling the aspiration for a wider tram-train network that WYCA have been pushing. Other than that the main benefit might be quicker acceleration times (although the 195s are no slouches), and perhaps longer term electric services beyond Leeds (keeping in mind the TRU wiring *should* have been done before this gets started).

Bradford southern gateway should not be built in my opinion simply as it would be in the wrong place outside the city centre and is just a typical Bradford Clowncil vanity project. Only that inept bunch could back a plan to take trains out of the city centre and claim that it’s a benefit.

I honestly think a gateway station idea has been confused with what Bradford Council saw as an alternative option for a NPR station to having any alignment tunnelled under the city centre. As NPR is dead in the water, a gateway station currently would serve no purpose. Bradford Council have published some early ideas on re-developing the area but is nowhere near anywhere near concrete.

Any money spent on the city's rail infrastructure would be far better purposed in improving facilities at both the Interchange & Forster Square, especially the latter as the council are starting work on making more of the city centre pedestrianised and created bus hubs around the edge. This might in the future make Forster Square more attractive for leisure passengers, many of whom probably avoid the less than desirable approach from Cheapside!

 

[Manutd1999]

Electrification to allow cross-Leeds stoppers (Interchange - Leeds - York all stops) would make sense. The Calder Valley services could then skip Pudsey and Bramley, giving a modest journey time saving.

I'm not sure why LNER would prefer to run to Interchange as opposed to Forster Square?

More speculatively, WYCA might be interested in a "West yorkshire circular" type service, routing Leeds-Bradford-Halifax-Brighouse-Dewsbury-Leeds? It would be possible with bi-modes...

 

[MichaelTrains]

Electrification to allow cross-Leeds stoppers (Interchange - Leeds - York all stops) would make sense. The Calder Valley services could then skip Pudsey and Bramley, giving a modest journey time saving.

I'm not sure why LNER would prefer to run to Interchange as opposed to Forster Square?

More speculatively, WYCA might be interested in a "West yorkshire circular" type service, routing Leeds-Bradford-Halifax-Brighouse-Dewsbury-Leeds? It would be possible with bi-modes...

I thought with the wires up LNER would prefer to operate to the main station in the city?

 

[Neptune]

I thought with the wires up LNER would prefer to operate to the main station in the city?

But they could do that now with their bi-mode 800’s if they really wanted.

Bear in mind the services LNER run operate at times that suit Bradford people going out from/coming back to Bradford rather than people going to/returning from Bradford. They obviously know the market well.

 

[MichaelTrains]

But they could do that now with their bi-mode 800’s if they really wanted.

Bear in mind the services LNER run operate at times that suit Bradford people going out from/coming back to Bradford rather than people going to/returning from Bradford. They obviously know the market well.

Could a five-car 800 fit New Pudsey station?

You could then let the Skipton’s take Shipley?

 

[Halish Railway]

You could then let the Skipton’s take Shipley?

Only in the Leeds direction as anything longer than a five carriage Azuma would foul the points of Shipley East Jn.

 

[JR108]

As mentioned earlier, building an arc bypass of Bradford Interchange linking thru' to a new station at St. James is really 'pie in the sky'. The new station would be underground and sit outside of the city centre. Any journey time savings would be lost by having to walk/cycle to the new station which would be the other side of the city ring road and have the added issue of deep level platforms. The idea of reopening the Bowling Curve (former Bradford diversion railway) as a single bi-directional line does have some merits, as it could save up to a possible 15 mins on Calder Valley express services, re; Halifax / Blackpool to Leeds passengers etc., provide for quicker stock movements and stop the occasional freight (scrap metal) train having to reverse in and out of the city. A recreated Bowling (Bfd Parkway Station) though would be a dead duck in terms of any meaningful usage though.

I believe the issue with electrification is the Stanningley and possibly Bowling Tunnels which may need reboring to create the space for overhead wires etc. This would explain the logic of the St. James idea, i.e. if you are going to do that then why not built a new station? Still this doesn't solve the issue of Stanningley which would need to be rebored anyway (as in the example of Farnworth). Bradford Council are tidying up the area around the Interchange and creating a new revamped entrance on Hall Ings, but this doesn't address the issue of the platform layout which dates back to the early 1970s. I believe includes a parcel bay and a carriage siding? Perhaps, the local council could investigate punching a new link thru' the Bridge Street embankment onto the site of the former Exchange Station and creating a better pedestrian / cycle links thru' to Forster Square? This would be fairly easy to do and not cost a massive amount.

In conclusion, I would continue with plans to electrify the line to Leeds and create a new northern entrance to the Interchange and reopen the Bowling Curve to separate out the Calder Valley express services, stock movements and scrap trains out from the city.

 

[MichaelTrains]

As mentioned earlier, building an arc bypass of Bradford Interchange linking thru' to a new station at St. James is really 'pie in the sky'. The new station would be underground and sit outside of the city centre. Any journey time savings would be lost by having to walk/cycle to the new station which would be the other side of the city ring road and have the added issue of deep level platforms. The idea of reopening the Bowling Curve (former Bradford diversion railway) as a single bi-directional line does have some merits, as it could save up to a possible 15 mins on Calder Valley express services, re; Halifax / Blackpool to Leeds passengers etc., provide for quicker stock movements and stop the occasional freight (scrap metal) train having to reverse in and out of the city. A recreated Bowling (Bfd Parkway Station) though would be a dead duck in terms of any meaningful usage though.

I believe the issue with electrification is the Stanningley and possibly Bowling Tunnels which may need reboring to create the space for overhead wires etc. This would explain the logic of the St. James idea, i.e. if you are going to do that then why not built a new station? Still this doesn't solve the issue of Stanningley which would need to be rebored anyway (as in the example of Farnworth). Bradford Council are tidying up the area around the Interchange and creating a new revamped entrance on Hall Ings, but this doesn't address the issue of the platform layout which dates back to the early 1970s. I believe includes a parcel bay and a carriage siding? Perhaps, the local council could investigate punching a new link thru' the Bridge Street embankment onto the site of the former Exchange Station and creating a better pedestrian / cycle links thru' to Forster Square? This would be fairly easy to do and not cost a massive amount.

In conclusion, I would continue with plans to electrify the line to Leeds and create a new northern entrance to the Interchange and reopen the Bowling Curve to separate out the Calder Valley express services, stock movements and scrap trains out from the city.

Having the express services miss Bradford would go against everything Bradford is currently fighting for and desperately needs.

The layout at the Interchange is still a mess. Anything waiting to depart from platform one or two can’t leave until the train coming in off the Halifax line has gone into platforms three or four.

It might only be an extra two/three minute delay but the amount of times they have reconfigured the layout you would have expected these issues to have been sorted.

 

[Neptune]

As mentioned earlier, building an arc bypass of Bradford Interchange linking thru' to a new station at St. James is really 'pie in the sky'. The new station would be underground and sit outside of the city centre. Any journey time savings would be lost by having to walk/cycle to the new station which would be the other side of the city ring road and have the added issue of deep level platforms. The idea of reopening the Bowling Curve (former Bradford diversion railway) as a single bi-directional line does have some merits, as it could save up to a possible 15 mins on Calder Valley express services, re; Halifax / Blackpool to Leeds passengers etc., provide for quicker stock movements and stop the occasional freight (scrap metal) train having to reverse in and out of the city. A recreated Bowling (Bfd Parkway Station) though would be a dead duck in terms of any meaningful usage though.

I believe the issue with electrification is the Stanningley and possibly Bowling Tunnels which may need reboring to create the space for overhead wires etc. This would explain the logic of the St. James idea, i.e. if you are going to do that then why not built a new station? Still this doesn't solve the issue of Stanningley which would need to be rebored anyway (as in the example of Farnworth). Bradford Council are tidying up the area around the Interchange and creating a new revamped entrance on Hall Ings, but this doesn't address the issue of the platform layout which dates back to the early 1970s. I believe includes a parcel bay and a carriage siding? Perhaps, the local council could investigate punching a new link thru' the Bridge Street embankment onto the site of the former Exchange Station and creating a better pedestrian / cycle links thru' to Forster Square? This would be fairly easy to do and not cost a massive amount.

In conclusion, I would continue with plans to electrify the line to Leeds and create a new northern entrance to the Interchange and reopen the Bowling Curve to separate out the Calder Valley express services, stock movements and scrap trains out from the city.

Re-building the Bowling diversionary route would only save around 7 minutes at most and miss out the Bradford market which is the one of the largest on the route. There is zero benefit to building a station for Bradford even further out of town.

 

[Halifaxlad]

Having the express services miss Bradford would go against everything Bradford is currently fighting for and desperately needs.

Surely having express services spending less time in Bradford is exactly what the Council is aspiring for!

 

[Neptune]

Surely having express services spending less time in Bradford is exactly what the Council is aspiring for!

Well I’ve often wondered and now seriously think that Bradford could become the first City to gain Town status judging by the way it is rapidly being ruined by the inept council.