Branson: Let me invest in railways

[Mintona]

If Virgin lose the franchise it will be a tragedy.

 

[87015]

Well whether Branson had anything to do with it or not, you've got to give Virgin Trains credit for what they have achieved alongside the WCML upgrades... and you cannot blame them for looking longer term

Which is what? Some of the internally worst 'premier' intercity trains in Europe, running to a DfT timetable on a route upgraded mainly through the public purse

 

[kvbham]

I hope they retain the WCML ... The new timetable is great and Virgin have greatly improved over the years!

 

[me123]

I think they stand a good chance, especially if they focus on improving reliability over their final years.

Besides, investing in getting faster journey times still shows a great deal of commitment! Sub-4 hours to London would be fantastic. An hour London-Birmingham, fantastic for England. My only concern is even more engineering work; will Glasgow ever be free?!?

 

[asylumxl]

Which is what? Some of the internally worst 'premier' intercity trains in Europe, running to a DfT timetable on a route upgraded mainly through the public purse

I don't think most customers really care. It gets them where they need to be fast.

The voyagers and pendos aren't that bad.

 

[Pumbaa]

I think they stand a good chance, especially if they focus on improving reliability over their final years.

Besides, investing in getting faster journey times still shows a great deal of commitment! Sub-4 hours to London would be fantastic. An hour London-Birmingham, fantastic for England. My only concern is even more engineering work; will Glasgow ever be free?!?

It's on the cards I think? The track work tween Oxenholme and Carlisle is improving track to raise the speed to well above 95EPS I think, which it is currently on that bendy section by the motorway.

 

[LTJ87]

Whilst I agree with Richard Branson that the current system is flawed, I am not convinced by his commitment to invest billions in the railways. Aside from the Virgin name and the personal profile of Richard Branson, I can't see what Virgin has really brought to the WCML. The phenomenal expense of the WCML upgrade was paid for by the taxpayer through public subsidy and eyewatering fare increases.

In the interview on BBC News Online below, he says that some of the investment should come from Network Rail. Personally, I feel that the WCML has had enough taxpayers' money invested it, and further public investment should go elsewhere.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/8057663.stm

 

[daccer]

I dont think Virgin have done a bad job and they will probably retain the franchise as it is nice for the govt to have such a high profile figure as Branson on board running a TOC.

My issue is that he is talking about investing in stations mainly - the track has been done and the trains are new so thereisnt a lot left to invest in apart from the stations. My problemm is which stations is he talking about.

By the time the franchise is up for renewal, New St will be nearly done and the plans for Euston are already in place (albeit on hold). Crewe would undoubtedly have been done by then also. Rugby has been done and Glasgow Central is not part of the equation as the Scots take care of their own. Carlisle and Preston seem decent places with proper trains sheds and buildings which will always be retained and Warrington hs just had a new Station Building put it. Lastly Lime St has had a lot of investment which is only now coming to an end.

So my question to Mr Branson is how is he going to spend substantial amounts on the WCML when it is has just had many billions pumped into it. I suspect it is not the WCML he is looking at. Is it a coincidence that his statements have come out within a month of NXEC looking to maybe hand the keys back. If there are no other takers for the East Coast I think Beardie has plans for a Virgin takeover and will use private investment as a way of excusing the monopoly angle. Virgin have no internal flights in the UK whereas they do operate internally in USA and Africa. with both main lines to Scotland he would have a major part of the domestic Anglo-Scot market tied up without having to worry about aircraft and would allow him to expand the ever growing Virgin empire.

 

[me123]

...Glasgow Central is not part of the equation as the Scots take care of their own.

Future upgrades to Glasgow Central are not focussed on Long Distance trains, rather providing more platform space for GARL. However, diversion of Whifflet to GLC Low Level and, if Crossrail happens, lots of other trains to Queen Street Low Level, ensure platforming in Central for some time.

Basically; as far as the WCML goes, we've got it in hand; don't worry

 

[jon0844]

would allow him to expand the ever growing Virgin empire.

The Virgin empire isn't as big as many think. Most businesses are franchises and Richard Branson will merely 'front' ad campaigns for you. You or I could set up a business and ask him for support - but it wouldn't really be a Virgin company.

How many businesses does he actually run himself? Trains, planes and..?

 

[Mintona]

Mobile communication devices?

Euston, Rugby, Manchester Piccadilly, Birmingham New Street, Crewe, Liverpool Lime Street, Preston, Carlisle and Glasgow Central the poster above mentioned. Of those, I think work could be done to improve Preston, Carlisle, Crewe and Liverpool Lime Street certainly.
But there are more stations than that: Watford Junction, Milton Keynes Central, Nuneaton, Tamworth, Lichfield Trent Valley, Stafford, Stoke-on-Trent, Macclesfield, Stockport, Wilmslow, Coventry, Birmingham International, Wolverhampton; and those are just the stations on the core routes.

I appreciate Virgin don't operate them all, but neither do they operate Birmingham New Street or London Euston, and "daccer" mentioned them.

So although work has been/is being done on many stations, there is still plenty to do on the West Coast Mainline.

 

[jon0844]

Richard Branson sold Virgin Mobile for quite a lot of money a few years back, but I think he might be involved with Virgin Media - but I'm not 100% sure.

As Virgin Media is struggling, I'd say he's not in control - but is perhaps on the board or a non-executive director or something.

(I think I'll probably investigate all of this in the near future!)

 

[tbtc]

I dont think Virgin have done a bad job and they will probably retain the franchise as it is nice for the govt to have such a high profile figure as Branson on board running a TOC

You can imagine him throwing his toys out of the pram if the powers that be don't autumatically hand him the next franchises...

So my question to Mr Branson is how is he going to spend substantial amounts on the WCML when it is has just had many billions pumped into it. I suspect it is not the WCML he is looking at

...nah, it'll be Shrewsbury and Wrexham

Seriously though, good point - to spend even more money on the (almost state of the art) WCML when other lines need investment would be daft, but...

 

[thelem]

How many businesses does he actually run himself? Trains, planes and..?

I imagine he's got the Brawn to be involved in automobiles too.

Sorry :roll:.

 

[jon0844]

I did think of writing planes, trains and ... !

He's probably dabbled in Virgin Cars at some time. In fact, I think there was some sort of car business in the late 1990s.

 

[Stonesourscotty]

Off Topic...There is a Virgin cars advert on the Mancunion Way but ive no idea what it does....

 

[Chafford1]

So my question to Mr Branson is how is he going to spend substantial amounts on the WCML when it is has just had many billions pumped into it.

Stafford and Crewe Bypasses

Cab based signalling if he wants to run at 140mph.

 

[LTJ87]

Richard Branson sold Virgin Mobile for quite a lot of money a few years back, but I think he might be involved with Virgin Media - but I'm not 100% sure.

As Virgin Media is struggling, I'd say he's not in control - but is perhaps on the board or a non-executive director or something.

Richard Branson contributed the Virgin Mobile business to Virgin Media in return for a stake in the company which he has just reduced to just 6.5% of the company. He also only owns minority stakes in other businesses such as Virgin America and Virgin Blue. Stagecoach owns 49% of Virgin Trains and Singapore Airlines owns 49% of Virgin Atlantic (and Singapore Airlines has made it clear it wants to sell its stake).

When Richard Branson launches a new business, he rarely commits much of his own capital. He normally takes a minority stake and licenses the Virgin name (which is in itself very effective, as evidenced by the quite uncritical coverage of yesterday's announcement) so if Virgin Trains really is intent on investing billions in the railways, most of it won't come from him.

 

[The Planner]

Stafford and Crewe Bypasses

Cab based signalling if he wants to run at 140mph.

Neither are needed, Stafford cut off saves at best 3-4 minutes. Grade seperate Norton Bridge at a fraction of the cost and the problems are solved. Bypassing Crewe wouldnt do a lot either.

140mph gets you 6 seconds a mile over 125mph, so you need 10 miles to get a minute. The costs to get 140mph just wont get you the returns you want in my opinion.

 

[ukrob]

Neither are needed, Stafford cut off saves at best 3-4 minutes. Grade seperate Norton Bridge at a fraction of the cost and the problems are solved. Bypassing Crewe wouldnt do a lot either.

140mph gets you 6 seconds a mile over 125mph, so you need 10 miles to get a minute. The costs to get 140mph just wont get you the returns you want in my opinion.

They are all small amounts, but they add up. Lets say both Crewe and Stafford bypasses save 3 minutes each, thats 6 minutes. Add 100 miles of 140mph running and that gives 10 minutes by your calculation (I assume it is right - not checked) - that is 15 minutes shaved off straight away.

The return on that 15 minutes is hard to measure but I would image it would be substancial over a 20+ year franchise (whether it would break even or not I don't know).

 

[The Planner]

Branson is a businessman, he wants a return on his investment. The cost of the Stafford bypass is likely to be several hundred of millions, as would a bypass of Crewe. The savings you quote are fine if you dont stop, the likelihood of going 100 miles at 140mph non stop is fairly remote. If he thinks he can get 75% of the savings for half the cost, whats he going to choose ??

 

[ukrob]

Branson is a businessman, he wants a return on his investment. The cost of the Stafford bypass is likely to be several hundred of millions, as would a bypass of Crewe. The savings you quote are fine if you dont stop, the likelihood of going 100 miles at 140mph non stop is fairly remote. If he thinks he can get 75% of the savings for half the cost, whats he going to choose ??

I didn't say otherwise.

Aren't all the Scotland services non stop to Warrington anyway?