Break of Journey advice

[nuneatonmark]

Thank you in advance to all you brilliant people on here who provide advice. Can you confirm whether it is ok to break a journey from Nuneaton to Grantham, overnight in Nottingham on an off peak return fare.

 

[Watershed]

Presuming you mean the outward portion of an Off-Peak Return from Nuneaton to Grantham, the answer is "it's complicated".

In principle it's a valid route (you can reach Nottingham via Tamworth or Leicester), and there are no break of journey restrictions on this ticket - so there is certainly no problem with exiting at Nottingham on the first day of validity of the outward portion.

However, recommencing travel on the second day of validity, when using the outward portion of an Off-Peak Return, is only permitted "if the journey cannot be completed on the same [first] day". This has long been an ambiguous definition - does the word "cannot" refer to a journey that can't be completed within the same day because you set off too late to make the last connection all the way to your destination? Or does it only refer to journeys that take so long it's physically impossible to complete them within a day? It's unclear.

Whilst some staff will be familiar with the provisions for overnight break of journey on the outward portion of an Off-Peak Return, many will not and will claim that the ticket has already expired. Therefore, I don't think it's something I would advise for a journey as short as this, unless you are willing to accept the potential risk of being charged for a new ticket (or potentially issued with a Penalty Fare or worse).

 

[redreni]

Not sure if you have a railcard, but when I search for flexible off-peak fares Nuneaton to Grantham on the forum's site it suggests, in any case, splitting the fare at Nottingham.

£25.90 for an off-peak return Nuneaton to Nottingham
£11 for an off-peak day single Nottingham to Grantham
£11 for an off-peak single Grantham to Nottingham
£47.90 total, compared to £55 for the off-peak return Nuneaton to Grantham.

With a railcard the saving would be less, but there should still be a saving as long as no minimum fare is involved that would stop you getting a discount on those two singles. Given the dubious validity of the through ticket for your planned itinerary I would consider splitting the ticket at Nottingham in any case.

 

[Haywain]

If you are travelling to Grantham and then returning to Nuneaton the same day, the split above is even more beneficial as an Off Peak Day Return from Nottingham to Grantham is £11.10.

 

[AY1975]

Presuming you mean the outward portion of an Off-Peak Return from Nuneaton to Grantham, the answer is "it's complicated".

In principle it's a valid route (you can reach Nottingham via Tamworth or Leicester), and there are no break of journey restrictions on this ticket - so there is certainly no problem with exiting at Nottingham on the first day of validity of the outward portion.

However, recommencing travel on the second day of validity, when using the outward portion of an Off-Peak Return, is only permitted "if the journey cannot be completed on the same [first] day". This has long been an ambiguous definition - does the word "cannot" refer to a journey that can't be completed within the same day because you set off too late to make the last connection all the way to your destination? Or does it only refer to journeys that take so long it's physically impossible to complete them within a day? It's unclear.

Whilst some staff will be familiar with the provisions for overnight break of journey on the outward portion of an Off-Peak Return, many will not and will claim that the ticket has already expired. Therefore, I don't think it's something I would advise for a journey as short as this, unless you are willing to accept the potential risk of being charged for a new ticket (or potentially issued with a Penalty Fare or worse).

What about with the return portion of an Off-Peak ticket? I have a friend who wants to know if it'd be OK to break the return leg of a Sheffield to London journey overnight at Bedford on the way back to Sheffield.

In BR days you could break your journey with the return but not the outward portion of a Saver Return (of which the Off-Peak Return is kind of today's equivalent).

 

[Bletchleyite]

What about with the return portion of an Off-Peak ticket? I have a friend who wants to know if it'd be OK to break the return leg of a Sheffield to London journey overnight at Bedford on the way back to Sheffield.

In BR days you could break your journey with the return but not the outward portion of a Saver Return (of which the Off-Peak Return is kind of today's equivalent).

Yes, you can do this unless the restriction code prohibits it, and arguably due to the ticket T&Cs don't allow the restriction code to prohibit it. The only restriction code I know of that does this is 8A, and you will only find that in Wales now I think.

In any meaningful sense the Off Peak and the ex-BR Saver are the same in terms of break of journey permissions in the vast majority of cases.

 

[plugwash]

and you will only find that in Wales now I think.

My experiance is if an off-peak return is set by Northern or TFW it usually has the 8A restriction.

e.g. https://www.brfares.com/!faredetail?orig=MAN&dest=PRE&grpo=0438&tkt=SVR

 

[Watershed]

My experiance is if an off-peak return is set by Northern or TFW it usually has the 8A restriction.

e.g. https://www.brfares.com/!faredetail?orig=MAN&dest=PRE&grpo=0438&tkt=SVR

Northern only set a very small number of 8A SVRs anymore. As per the one you cite, they are mostly on flows which they took over from TPE when the Blackpool/Windermere/Barrow services were transferred.

TPE used to use 8A on most of their SVRs until around 2018, and Northern simply kept that restriction code in most cases.

Northern's other SVRs generally have a B1 (not before 09:30) or B3 (not before 09:00) time restriction.

 

[Vespa]

Personally I think breaks of journeys should be allowed in both the outward and return ticket as long as you don't backtrack, barcodes nowadays this can easily be tracked from end to end.

As it is as far as I'm aware you can usually break your journey on the return portion of your ticket, not sure how often you can do it in one trip.

 

[plugwash]

Northern only set a very small number of 8A SVRs anymore. As per the one you cite, they are mostly on flows which they took over from TPE when the Blackpool/Windermere/Barrow services were transferred.

Ahh that makes sense. I'm based near Manchester, so most of the northern-set SVRs I encounter are for those routes.