• Our booking engine at tickets.railforums.co.uk (powered by TrainSplit) helps support the running of the forum with every ticket purchase! Find out more and ask any questions/give us feedback in this thread!

Break of journey super off peak

Status
Not open for further replies.

mrmartin

Member
Joined
17 Dec 2012
Messages
1,016
Hi, question. Say I buy a PAD CDF super off peak return, and get a train at (say) 2pm from Paddington. I want to break journey for 3 hours at Swindon. Could I rejoin the train at Swindon at 6pm? This would be a peak service from PAD, but the equivalent off peak ticket SWI CDF doesn't have an evening peak restriction.

Furthermore the restrictions on brfares say there are evening peak restrictions from pad, reading and didcot but not Swindon
 
Last edited:
Sponsor Post - registered members do not see these adverts; click here to register, or click here to log in
R

RailUK Forums

Haywain

Veteran Member
Joined
3 Feb 2013
Messages
15,349
Hi, question. Say I buy a PAD CDF super off peak return, and get a train at (say) 2pm from Paddington. I want to break journey for 3 hours at Swindon. Could I rejoin the train at Swindon at 6pm? This would be a peak service from PAD, but the equivalent off peak ticket SWI CDF doesn't have an evening peak restriction.

Furthermore the restrictions on brfares say there are evening peak restrictions from pad, reading and didcot but not Swindon
This is where the wording of the restriction is quite important. As it states 'not valid to depart from' those stations that clearly (to me) indicates it can be valid on those trains when used from another station.

Edited: Read unpublished restrictions, rather than published.
 
Last edited:

mrmartin

Member
Joined
17 Dec 2012
Messages
1,016
GWR train manager said it was ok. But thought there was no break of journey on the outbound ticket which is news to me? Obviously no overnight BoJ
 

Watershed

Veteran Member
Associate Staff
Senior Fares Advisor
Joined
26 Sep 2020
Messages
12,141
Location
UK
Break of journey is permitted on all portions of walk-up tickets unless the restriction code text explicitly says otherwise. I'm not aware of any GWR-set walkup fares that bar break of journey, other than the tiny handful of 8A (i.e. Anytime) SVRs which they still have.

The restrictions on a Swindon to Cardiff ticket aren't really relevant, as that isn't the ticket you hold. It's the restrictions on the ticket you hold - PAD-CDF - that matter, and more specifically the wording of the restriction code text:

The relevant part is this:
Not valid on trains timed to depart:
  • London Paddington after 04:29 and before 10:10 and after 15:01 and before 19:00;
  • Reading after 04:29 and before 10:30 and after 15:30 and before 19:00;

Unfortunately this leaves it a little ambiguous whether those restrictions are intended to also apply to joining such services at later stations. The use of the wording "not valid on trains timed to depart", as opposed to "not valid to board trains timed to depart" (which is used in other cases) would suggest that the intention is to bar the use of those trains throughout, but it's not as 100% clear-cut as restriction code C0 for instance:
Not valid on trains timed to pass through London Bridge after 04:29 or before 09:45, regardless of where you join or leave the service.

Personally speaking, I wouldn't want to rely on the TM either not checking tickets, or not trying to charge an excess if they did check your ticket and take exception.
 

mikeb42

Member
Joined
19 Jan 2015
Messages
127
Re the general question of Break of Journey on the outbound leg:
To the best of my (layperson's) knowledge the relevant restriction code is YW, for which trainsplit says:

https://trainsplit.com/TicketDetail...ketCode=SSR&Route=00000&TicketDate=20/10/2022
The National Rail page for YW says:
https://www.nationalrail.co.uk/times_fares/ticket_types/64326.aspx

I.e. no mention of BoJ so the default position applies - no restrictions on a Super Off-Peak Return.

Most GWR train managers are pretty good, the old-school ones in particular, but I have occasionally had similar odd experiences.

I've previously been told BoJ wasn't allowed on the outbound leg of a different journey using a ticket with the closely related YV restriction code. Flat wrong as far as I know.

I have also been firmly told "You shouldn't be travelling on a ticket from A to C to get to B" where B is between A and C on the only sane route and the ticket has no BoJ restrictions. When I politely but firmly disagreed, a "Maybe we should see what an RPI thinks about it" followed, but brought the discussion to a rapid end thanks to a cheery "Please, go ahead" from me.

The other 99% of on-train GWR staff who check tickets seem to understand all but the most arcane moves readily - or unfailingly use their discretion wisely.
 
Last edited:

Dave91131

Member
Joined
13 Jun 2018
Messages
671
Circa 10 years ago, when paper timetable booklets were still published, I remember reading some very detailed information in First Capital Connect's timetable regarding situations such as the one the OP is querying.

The literature specifically stated something to the effect that off peak tickets from, say, London King's Cross to Peterborough were not valid to board a train which had departed King's Cross during the peak period at, say, Biggleswade if one had chosen to break their journey there.

I suspect this could be the situation with the tickets and journey that the OP is querying, but whether the official restrictions are reflective of this or not I'll leave to others much more qualified to comment.

@bramling may be able to remember the timetable info better than I can.
 

FenMan

Established Member
Joined
13 Oct 2011
Messages
1,383
Hi, question. Say I buy a PAD CDF super off peak return, and get a train at (say) 2pm from Paddington. I want to break journey for 3 hours at Swindon. Could I rejoin the train at Swindon at 6pm? This would be a peak service from PAD, but the equivalent off peak ticket SWI CDF doesn't have an evening peak restriction.

Furthermore the restrictions on brfares say there are evening peak restrictions from pad, reading and didcot but not Swindon

To avoid the issue, and save money, you can split your tickets at Swindon. The saving is £5.60 compared with the through fare (assuming no railcard is held).
 

mrmartin

Member
Joined
17 Dec 2012
Messages
1,016
To avoid the issue, and save money, you can split your tickets at Swindon. The saving is £5.60 compared with the through fare (assuming no railcard is held).
Hmm not sure - £89 PAD CDF, vs £54 PAD - SWI super off peak & £39.40 off peak SWI - CDF - £93.40. It's slightly more expensive. I would have just paid the extra but only thought about this when I got on the train.

In the end the tickets worked fine in the barriers at swindon & cardiff and didn't get my ticket checked after I reboarded. I'm surprised the barriers worked at Cardiff given I arrived at the height of the peak trains from london and had a super off peak return - thought they would have rejected.
 

FenMan

Established Member
Joined
13 Oct 2011
Messages
1,383
Hmm not sure - £89 PAD CDF, vs £54 PAD - SWI super off peak & £39.40 off peak SWI - CDF - £93.40. It's slightly more expensive. I would have just paid the extra but only thought about this when I got on the train.

In the end the tickets worked fine in the barriers at swindon & cardiff and didn't get my ticket checked after I reboarded. I'm surprised the barriers worked at Cardiff given I arrived at the height of the peak trains from london and had a super off peak return - thought they would have rejected.
Oops! a brainstorm on my part.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Top