Bridge strikes with buses - collating detail

[S N Barnes]

2 threads I've picked up where there seems to be silence or a lack of reports & objective analysis on the problems and possible solutions.

Hitting a bridge with a 'decker is a high scoring risk, as, in service, there will be people on the upper deck & high risk of injury/death as well as the issue of hitting the bridge

1 - most recent - First Glasgow 'decker hits Kilbowie Road bridge in Clydebank (6/11/21) - no sign of local news reports. In hiatus of driver shortages & COP26 diversions it seems that 'decker got driven on route normally used by a single deck (?)

A warning buzzer should have sounded, but this bridge often passed by 'deckers not turning (left) to go under it, & the warning system for this bridge had been switched off

Not sure if it even triggered a TSR until bridge was checked by NR

2 - 14'6" .... or 4.3(?) or 4.4(?) m signs/actual confusion? in Romsey. 14'6" 'deckers getting regular scrapes, with (at least 2 Blue Star) bus routes that use them registered to pass under bridge. Drivers appear to have been told to keep quiet about the damage, and one was sacked for whistleblowing.

It does seem a bit 'close' driving under a 14'6" bridge with 14'6" buses, especially when the air suspension settings can vary, with several models having a 'ferry lift' setting (to increase the ground clearance for using a linkspan) as well as the 'kneel' to level the front platform with a footway kerb. From Streetview the bridge also has wiring for lights fixed underneath, a 'Railtrack' bridge information plate, and traffic lights with a 90° turn on the routes

With bus route registrations being notified to nominated bodies, and others with interests also checking their local notifications from the Traffic Area Offices (fortnightly N&P - Notices & Proceedings) I would have thought that Network Rail would be checking these and getting 'undertakings' linked to those registrations that put a bus route to pass under a low bridge(s), that no buses over a specified height should operate that service, or isn't this happening?

Fortunately most bus-bridge crashes are not on service routes, as diversions are checked, and buses rarely operate with ferry lift raised or a gross suspension levelling malfunction, although there are ironic tales of rail replacement services, often with poorly briefed drivers, working in areas a long way from their base taking the wrong route. Is there anyone tracking this independently at present? Example 2 suggests that where no spectacle of a severed roof in the road disrupts traffic flow, there will be under-reporting - what thoughts

DM open

 

[GusB]

2 threads I've picked up where there seems to be silence or a lack of reports & objective analysis on the problems and possible solutions.

Hitting a bridge with a 'decker is a high scoring risk, as, in service, there will be people on the upper deck & high risk of injury/death as well as the issue of hitting the bridge

1 - most recent - First Glasgow 'decker hits Kilbowie Road bridge in Clydebank (6/11/21) - no sign of local news reports. In hiatus of driver shortages & COP26 diversions it seems that 'decker got driven on route normally used by a single deck (?)

A warning buzzer should have sounded, but this bridge often passed by 'deckers not turning (left) to go under it, & the warning system for this bridge had been switched off

Not sure if it even triggered a TSR until bridge was checked by NR

2 - 14'6" .... or 4.3(?) or 4.4(?) m signs/actual confusion? in Romsey. 14'6" 'deckers getting regular scrapes, with (at least 2 Blue Star) bus routes that use them registered to pass under bridge. Drivers appear to have been told to keep quiet about the damage, and one was sacked for whistleblowing.

It does seem a bit 'close' driving under a 14'6" bridge with 14'6" buses, especially when the air suspension settings can vary, with several models having a 'ferry lift' setting (to increase the ground clearance for using a linkspan) as well as the 'kneel' to level the front platform with a footway kerb. From Streetview the bridge also has wiring for lights fixed underneath, a 'Railtrack' bridge information plate, and traffic lights with a 90° turn on the routes

With bus route registrations being notified to nominated bodies, and others with interests also checking their local notifications from the Traffic Area Offices (fortnightly N&P - Notices & Proceedings) I would have thought that Network Rail would be checking these and getting 'undertakings' linked to those registrations that put a bus route to pass under a low bridge(s), that no buses over a specified height should operate that service, or isn't this happening?

Fortunately most bus-bridge crashes are not on service routes, as diversions are checked, and buses rarely operate with ferry lift raised or a gross suspension levelling malfunction, although there are ironic tales of rail replacement services, often with poorly briefed drivers, working in areas a long way from their base taking the wrong route. Is there anyone tracking this independently at present? Example 2 suggests that where no spectacle of a severed roof in the road disrupts traffic flow, there will be under-reporting - what thoughts

DM open

Which threads have you picked up on? Please provide links to provide some context.

I'm not entirely sure what you're trying to achieve here.

 

[S N Barnes]

The threads are not on UK Rail Forum, or AFAIK on UK Bus Forums, but external, especially Romsey issue

I know that driver for incident 1 was dismissed, & bus damaged, but have not found any reports

Incident 2 gained a lot of local news reports and the driver was also sacked & appealing, again the reports noted that the operator seemed keen to avoid notifying Network Rail, and a rather risky issue of NR not reacting to a bus route using 14'6" buses going under a 14'6" bridge, without imposing an 'undertaking' on the licence to operate the service not to use 'deckers

Bridge strikes are under reported, and I have experience of a 'secret' repair (where an excavator boom punched a hole through deck plates, and a patch stuck on below which fell off as ballast was being cleared sending a shower of stones through windscreens below) when working on a cycle route using a disused line

Bus bridge strikes are especially high risk, and ensuring every incident is reported and causal factors checked, informs the improved delivery of risk management

 

[skyhigh]

I still don't get what you're actually trying to achieve. Do you want a list of every single bridge strike, or do you just want to know if the numbers are recorded somewhere? What are you planning to do with that information?

 

[S N Barnes]

This seems to be an area with a data void - that interests me - something to sort out

 

[jammy36]

This seems to be an area with a data void - that interests me - something to sort out

But... if your concern is that bridge strikes are happening but are going unreported, then there won't by definition be any 'data' - something that isn't reported can't be recorded.

Otherwise, as long as the relevant authorities are monitoring and collating data on bridge strikes and acting on this data, then I'm not sure what is to be gained by publishing such data and placing it in the public domain? That's not a data void.

 

[randyrippley]

This seems to be an area with a data void - that interests me - something to sort out

But what information are you requesting here?
What are you hoping to see in response to your posts?

 

[Titfield]

There needs to be a record of all bridge strikes so that:
a) The OTC (Office of the Traffic Commissioner) can take appropriate action. (Investigation, Decision on whether regulatory action is needed be that action in chambers or Public Inquiry and possible action).
b) Data Analysis may lead to identification of common causes (other than the obvious), eg business practices, common operators.
c) Network Rail. Local and Highways Authorities can prioritise action at strike hot spots.

There seems to be an attitude of mind that bridge strikes are unavoidable and there is little that can be done. This mindset needs changing as the safety of road users and others is being put at risk.

 

[jammy36]

There needs to be a record of all bridge strikes so that:
a) The OTC (Office of the Traffic Commissioner) can take appropriate action. (Investigation, Decision on whether regulatory action is needed be that action in chambers or Public Inquiry and possible action).
b) Data Analysis may lead to identification of common causes (other than the obvious), eg business practices, common operators.
c) Network Rail. Local and Highways Authorities can prioritise action at strike hot spots.

There seems to be an attitude of mind that bridge strikes are unavoidable and there is little that can be done. This mindset needs changing as the safety of road users and others is being put at risk.

But this is what happens already, bridge strikes are notifiable. There is a legal requirement upon PSV operators, by virtue of the Public Passenger Vehicles Act 1981 to report bridge strikes to the Traffic Commissioners. Whilst bridge strikes must be reported (to the Police and Rail Authority) by dint of the Road Traffic Act 1988. The Traffic Commissioners do monitor and take action, data is analysed and hot spots for strikes are prioritised with counter measures.

 

[Falcon1200]

There needs to be a record of all bridge strikes

There already is ! Network Rail record all bridge strikes in their daily Control Logs, these are collated on a national basis, and used to provide details such as the recently publicised list of their 10 most-struck bridges. The only issue being strikes which are not reported (to anyone), although it should be noted that most NR bridges now have a plate giving a phone number to advise if a bridge strike occurs; This of course can be used by anyone, not just the driver of the road vehicle involved.

 

[Bus Lightyear]

1 - most recent - First Glasgow 'decker hits Kilbowie Road bridge in Clydebank (6/11/21) - no sign of local news reports. In hiatus of driver shortages & COP26 diversions it seems that 'decker got driven on route normally used by a single deck (?)

Do you have a source for this?

 

[Stan Drews]

Do you have a source for this?

I recall seeing a traffic alert email advising of a diversion, due to “a First bus hitting the Kilbowie Road bridge” on that day, if that adds some corroboration.

 

[GusB]

The threads are not on UK Rail Forum, or AFAIK on UK Bus Forums, but external, especially Romsey issue

Where are they, then? By providing links to your sources it allows the rest of us to verify your claims, and perhaps help you with some answers. (Mod hat on - it is also a requirement of forum rules)

I know that driver for incident 1 was dismissed, & bus damaged, but have not found any reports

How do you know the driver was dismissed if there were no reports? Where are you getting your information hearsay from? There may be no local news reports because it perhaps wasn't considered newsworthy enough in a week when Glasgow had other, bigger, fish to fry.

If nobody was injured in the incident, there was minimal damage and/or little disruption to traffic, it's a non-story. How many passengers were on board? If there was nobody on board then there's no news-gathering equipment and nobody to tweet about how terrifying the incident was.

Incident 2 gained a lot of local news reports and the driver was also sacked & appealing, again the reports noted that the operator seemed keen to avoid notifying Network Rail, and a rather risky issue of NR not reacting to a bus route using 14'6" buses going under a 14'6" bridge, without imposing an 'undertaking' on the licence to operate the service not to use 'deckers

Could we have some evidence? Where are these news reports (links, quotes) that you mention? I found one report from 2015 by piecing together some of the clues you've posted, but I'm not sure if it's one of the incidents you are referring to.

How do you know that the driver was sacked and appealing? How do you know they were reluctant to inform Network Rail? It's quite an allegation to make in a public forum without any hard, verifiable facts to back them up.

This seems to be an area with a data void - that interests me - something to sort out

Indeed, there does seem to be a bit of a data void.

Without any clear point to the thread I'm going to close it for now. If the OP wishes to provide further information, they are welcome to report this post to alert the moderation team and we will consider reopening it.