Bridge to Ireland possible rail link and tunnel

[Chester1]

Well the water flow will be outwards, so its rather thard to generate energy like that.
The Irish Sea has a net outflow, like the North Sea, so enormous pumping stations would be required to pump the water several metres up-and-out.

Does eventually create something equivalent to a great lake in terms of fresh water though.....

Wouldn't that massively alter the ecosystem and make shipping difficult? I wouldn't be surprised if the cost of a barrage was acceptable for the Kintyre route (with a couple of tunnels in Scotland to connect to Glasgow) but a southern barrage would be incredibly expensive even by comparison with HS2 etc.

 

[Meerkat]

Wouldn't that massively alter the ecosystem and make shipping difficult? I wouldn't be surprised if the cost of a barrage was acceptable for the Kintyre route (with a couple of tunnels in Scotland to connect to Glasgow) but a southern barrage would be incredibly expensive even by comparison with HS2 etc.

a northern barrage would block the subs escape....

 

[HSTEd]

Wouldn't that massively alter the ecosystem and make shipping difficult? I wouldn't be surprised if the cost of a barrage was acceptable for the Kintyre route (with a couple of tunnels in Scotland to connect to Glasgow) but a southern barrage would be incredibly expensive even by comparison with HS2 etc.

The ecosystem will be massive altered when the sea level rises several metres.
As for shipping, given the relatively small height difference, locks can be constructed that can accept any ship capable of landing at the any of the ports in the barrage.


It might actually improve shipping by substantially reducing wave height and tidal variations in the Irish Sea.
You could use far less seaworthy vessels for shipping in the basin, possibly trending towards barges and other large block-coefficient low power haulage vessels.

A lot more like the stuff used on the Great Lakes.

a northern barrage would block the subs escape....

Escape from where to where?
Warnings are too short for a submarine to make it to sea if the attack warning comes whilst the sub is still tied up.
At best it will make it a few miles and get caught in a pattern attack.

If it can make it out of the base before it gets incinerated there is qiute a lot of space to hide in the Irish Sea/Lake if necessary.
Also a submarine loitering on the bottom of the Irish Sea would be beyond the reach of enemy submarines....

The Kintyre route is critical to a barrage being worthwhile because it protects Glasgow and other inhabited coastlines, and consumes much less rock than the Stranraer route.

 

[Meerkat]

Also a submarine loitering on the bottom of the Irish Sea would be beyond the reach of enemy submarines....

I thought there had been reports of Russian subs getting to the Clyde?
They need a clean escape into the open sea when they go on patrol. They wouldn’t want to be using a lock and the lock would be a single failure point. The Navy would insist on a bridge or tunnel.

 

[HSTEd]

I thought there had been reports of Russian subs getting to the Clyde?

Getting into the clyde is easy.
Getting through a lock gate is hard.

A submarine might be silent, but its not going to be able to escape detection trying to sit in a lock below a freighter.

They need a clean escape into the open sea when they go on patrol.

They get a clean escape now, even though everyone knows exactly where the submarines are based
They could leave the Irish Sea through one of at least two lock complexes, and probably at least one of three (the southern barrier is wide enough that it would need two).

They wouldn’t want to be using a lock and the lock would be a single failure point. The Navy would insist on a bridge or tunnel.

Leaving aside that the Navy will do whatever the government tells it to do.
Will the Navy be paying for the enormous cost of alternative flood defences for Glasgow and for the rest of the Irish Sea when far more rock is required to move the barrier south to Stranraer?

Does the Navy have a magical base that prevents opponent Submarines loitering in the Firth of Clyde to pick up outgoing subs?

They can either have departure point from a single base or departure point from two/three lock complexes.
Which is harder to cover?

 

[Meerkat]

Getting into the clyde is easy.
Getting through a lock gate is hard.

Doh, I misunderstood. I don’t think the Irish Sea is anywhere near big or deep enough to use as a bastion for the missile subs.

They get a clean escape now, even though everyone knows exactly where the submarines are based
They could leave the Irish Sea through one of at least two lock complexes, and probably at least one of three (the southern barrier is wide enough that it would need two)

They can cleanse the Clyde enough for the sub to get out and underwater before being at risk of an easy tail. Having the sub being in the lock is such a high risk trap, from failure of interference.
Anyway, whilst I think it is a showstopper it still isn’t top of the list of issues with barrages that big!

 

[Clayton]

We’re gonna need a bigger crayon!!

I went to Belfast once,little turboprop from Birmingham that was quick, cheap and easy. I certainly didn’t want to go to Stranraer!

 

[Chester1]

Doh, I misunderstood. I don’t think the Irish Sea is anywhere near big or deep enough to use as a bastion for the missile subs.

They can cleanse the Clyde enough for the sub to get out and underwater before being at risk of an easy tail. Having the sub being in the lock is such a high risk trap, from failure of interference.
Anyway, whilst I think it is a showstopper it still isn’t top of the list of issues with barrages that big!

A Kintyre barrage / embankment would take the edge off storm surges etc but would allow flow of sea and shipping via the south end of the Irish sea. Connecting it with Glasgow and Edinburgh would be a major problem and it would be a much worse connection with England than any fixed link between Larne and Stranraer.

 

[johnnychips]

I know that this is the Speculative Ideas section, but it seems to have shifted from an implausible bridge/tunnel from Stranraer to Larne onto blocking the Irish Sea off at both ends.

Given the serious proposals to build the Severn and Swansea barrages were rejected in short order, we really are in super-fantasy land now.

 

[Chester1]

I know that this is the Speculative Ideas section, but it seems to have shifted from an implausible bridge/tunnel from Stranraer to Larne onto blocking the Irish Sea off at both ends.

Given the serious proposals to build the Severn and Swansea barrages were rejected in short order, we really are in super-fantasy land now.

Both ends is super fantasy but Kintyre route at 12 miles long would not be, it would be shorter than some of the proposals for a Severn Barrage. Compared with the suggestions of a £20bn bridge on the longer route its not as crazy as it sounds.

 

[johnnychips]

Both ends is super fantasy but Kintyre route at 12 miles long would not be, it would be shorter than some of the proposals for a Severn Barrage. Compared with the suggestions of a £20bn bridge on the longer route its not as crazy as it sounds.

Yes, but what would be the point of it? Certainly not transport links.

 

[edwin_m]

Wouldn't the Mull of Kintyre route be dangerous because of the "mist rolling in from the sea"

 

[Chester1]

Yes, but what would be the point of it? Certainly not transport links.

Storm protection for a large coastal area and electricity (although on a much smaller scale than a estuary barrage). I disagree that it wouldn't be useful for transport. It would be with the right connections. It would need a railway and dual carriage from Belfast and another to Glasgow (with 2-3 mile tunnels near Tarbert and Dunoon).

 

[krus_aragon]

On a technical note, you might be able to put together a route jumping off on Anglesey and coming ashore in the vicinity of Kilkeel.
However that is nearly 110km at sea, although the water is much shallower.
Might be difficult to avoid going into ROI territorial waters/EEZ

If one decided to go via Anglesey, I'd be very surprised if the tunnel didn't continue straight to Dublin instead, rather than replicating a ferry route that was withdrawn seventy years ago.

 

[HSTEd]

If one decided to go via Anglesey, I'd be very surprised if the tunnel didn't continue straight to Dublin instead, rather than replicating a ferry route that was withdrawn seventy years ago.

Any route involving the Republic of Ireland definitely undermines the actual point of building the bridge......
So it would not be built.

Given the serious proposals to build the Severn and Swansea barrages were rejected in short order, we really are in super-fantasy land now.

The Swansea barrage failed by being pointless and hopelessly uneconomic.
The Severn barrage failed because opposing it cost them nothing.

What happens when the alternative to blocking off the ends of the Irish Sea is hundreds of kilometres of flood walls through huge numbers of coastal settlemnts (with the accompanying land seizures and protests) and the forced abandonment of numerous settlements and vast acreages of farmland?