Brigg Line - What’s the point?

[IBLRG]

For those that don't know the Brigg line used to be part of the mainline between Manchester Sheffield and Cleethorpes via the Woodhead Route.

The Brigg line suffered a dramatic reduction in services in 1968, followed by another in the mid 1970s.

Between the period of 1982 and 1984 the line was singled in places between Gainsborough and Wrawby Junction due to the state of the track.

Services between Sheffield and Cleethorpes were provided by train crew at either point.

Due to lack of passengers down mainly to a so called Dr Beeching timetable, and the fact that there was a shortage of units the passenger service was reduced to a Saturday only service from the 1st of October 1993 of which still continues to this day under the public service requirement, however the stock and the crew are provided from the Sheffield end

In 2012 a new rail group formed of locals, railway enthusiast and the present railway employees started to promote the Brigg Line.

With the help of Northern Rail, posters were put up in every single station on the route advertising the timetable, the fares, an event that will happening in places like Brigg, Northern also used to promote the Brigg line on social media every Friday.

This led to an increase in passenger numbers of about 35 to 40% year on year.

The rail group then took a back step when arriva took over and the new community rail partnership came into play.

Sadly it became very clear from day one that Arriva were not interested in the Brigg line and refused to promote it, the community rail partnership started to promote other areas like Lincoln and Retford and Worksop and the Brigg line and the Brigg & Kirton in Lindsey communities were abandoned.

Our old rail group where asked to reform and are now called The Independent Brigg Line Rail Group and work in partnership with the Brigg Business community. @IBLRG on Twitter.

Sadly the community rail partnership have got themselves into a bit of trouble by not supporting the Brigg Line, which has led to an official complaint going in to the Department for Transport about there actions, and request they are removed from the line.

The present train operating company do not wish to run the service, they refuse to participate in any promotion of the line or any ticket offers including advance tickets or special offers for communities like Brigg and Kirton in Lindsey.

This had led to a lot of anger and to the conclusion that they should be released from running this service along with their associates and another operator found.

The ideal solution is for TransPennine Express to run a shuttle service from Cleethorpes to Worksop using Cleethorpes traincrew.

 

[adrock1976]

For those that don't know the Brigg line used to be part of the mainline between Manchester Sheffield and Cleethorpes via the Woodhead Route.

The Brigg line suffered a dramatic reduction in services in 1968, followed by another in the mid 1970s.

Between the period of 1982 and 1984 the line was singled in places between Gainsborough and Wrawby Junction due to the state of the track.

Services between Sheffield and Cleethorpes were provided by train crew at either point.

Due to lack of passengers down mainly to a so called Dr Beeching timetable, and the fact that there was a shortage of units the passenger service was reduced to a Saturday only service from the 1st of October 1993 of which still continues to this day under the public service requirement, however the stock and the crew are provided from the Sheffield end

In 2012 a new rail group formed of locals, railway enthusiast and the present railway employees started to promote the Brigg Line.

With the help of Northern Rail, posters were put up in every single station on the route advertising the timetable, the fares, an event that will happening in places like Brigg, Northern also used to promote the Brigg line on social media every Friday.

This led to an increase in passenger numbers of about 35 to 40% year on year.

The rail group then took a back step when arriva took over and the new community rail partnership came into play.

Sadly it became very clear from day one that Arriva were not interested in the Brigg line and refused to promote it, the community rail partnership started to promote other areas like Lincoln and Retford and Worksop and the Brigg line and the Brigg & Kirton in Lindsey communities were abandoned.

Our old rail group where asked to reform and are now called The Independent Brigg Line Rail Group and work in partnership with the Brigg Business community. @IBLRG on Twitter.

Sadly the community rail partnership have got themselves into a bit of trouble by not supporting the Brigg Line, which has led to an official complaint going in to the Department for Transport about there actions, and request they are removed from the line.

The present train operating company do not wish to run the service, they refuse to participate in any promotion of the line or any ticket offers including advance tickets or special offers for communities like Brigg and Kirton in Lindsey.

This had led to a lot of anger and to the conclusion that they should be released from running this service along with their associates and another operator found.

The ideal solution is for TransPennine Express to run a shuttle service from Cleethorpes to Worksop using Cleethorpes traincrew.

Will your new group also be participating in the campaign for extending the Sheffield - Gainsborough Central (when restored) every second hour to Barton on Humber, as per the Restoring Your Railway proposal?

I can see that from the present Saturdays Only Sheffield - Cleethorpes via Brigg that it is broadly a 4 hour frequency, departing Sheffield on odd hours. The Sheffield - Gainsborough Central that would depart Sheffield on the even hours could be those ones to extend to Barton.

If timings work out well, there could be a short layover at Barnetby on the Sheffield - Barton trains to connect into and out of the TPE Cleethorpes or East Mids Leicester - Grimsby Town trains as Barnetby has island platforms and would not be in the way of freight trains to/from Immingham.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Being somewhat interested in how the local population of the Brigg Line view public transport in general, what main areas are reached by bus services in the area and what is the service frequency of them

 

[Old Yard Dog]

Gainsborough Central, as the name suggests, is right in the town centre. Gainsborough Lea Road is well over a mile out of town with a bus service that doesn't always connect all that well.

 

[gnolife]

Being somewhat interested in how the local population of the Brigg Line view public transport in general, what main areas are reached by bus services in the area and what is the service frequency of them

It looks like there's be 3 buses a day connecting Brigg and Kirton-in-Lindsey, a bus every 2 hours connecting Scunthorpe - Brigg - Barnetby-le-Wold and 6 buses per day connecting Lincoln - Kirton-in-Lindsey - Scunthorpe, and one bus daily between Gainsborough and Kirton-in-Lindsey.

 

[IBLRG]

Will your new group also be participating in the campaign for extending the Sheffield - Gainsborough Central (when restored) every second hour to Barton on Humber, as per the Restoring Your Railway proposal?

I can see that from the present Saturdays Only Sheffield - Cleethorpes via Brigg that it is broadly a 4 hour frequency, departing Sheffield on odd hours. The Sheffield - Gainsborough Central that would depart Sheffield on the even hours could be those ones to extend to Barton.

If timings work out well, there could be a short layover at Barnetby on the Sheffield - Barton trains to connect into and out of the TPE Cleethorpes or East Mids Leicester - Grimsby Town trains as Barnetby has island platforms and would not be in the way of freight trains to/from Immingham.

Will your new group also be participating in the campaign for extending the Sheffield - Gainsborough Central (when restored) every second hour to Barton on Humber, as per the Restoring Your Railway proposal?

I can see that from the present Saturdays Only Sheffield - Cleethorpes via Brigg that it is broadly a 4 hour frequency, departing Sheffield on odd hours. The Sheffield - Gainsborough Central that would depart Sheffield on the even hours could be those ones to extend to Barton.

If timings work out well, there could be a short layover at Barnetby on the Sheffield - Barton trains to connect into and out of the TPE Cleethorpes or East Mids Leicester - Grimsby Town trains as Barnetby has island platforms and would not be in the way of freight trains to/from Immingham.

The group have been undated with messages from those within the railway industry highlighting the bazaar campaign of extending the Gainsborough central service to Barton-upon-Humber.

To take a train and a service to a place where the passenger flow isn't going doesn't benefit these communities.

If you want to have a better service on the Barton line then it was suggested that you extend the present Doncaster to Scunthorpe stopping service to Barton on Humber.

The Barton line that would then have the option of either travelling East to Grimsby and Cleethorpes or West to Scunthorpe and Doncaster.

As it has been pointed out, from an operational point of view the first train would not get back to Sheffield from Barton-upon-Humber until mid morning, plus the fact that it has been highlighted that the current train operator does not wish to run the present service.

The group have taken all the information on board from those in the railway industry, and have passed comment on to the restoring your railway team that this idea should be rejected.

Sadly it does not make economical or logistical sense.

 

[tbtc]

In 2012 a new rail group formed of locals, railway enthusiast and the present railway employees started to promote the Brigg Line.

With the help of Northern Rail, posters were put up in every single station on the route advertising the timetable, the fares, an event that will happening in places like Brigg, Northern also used to promote the Brigg line on social media every Friday.

This led to an increase in passenger numbers of about 35 to 40% year on year.

The rail group then took a back step when arriva took over and the new community rail partnership came into play.

Sadly it became very clear from day one that Arriva were not interested in the Brigg line and refused to promote it, the community rail partnership started to promote other areas like Lincoln and Retford and Worksop and the Brigg line and the Brigg & Kirton in Lindsey communities were abandoned

Welcome to the Forum - nice to hear something positive about the Serco/Abellio version of Northern - I think that they were "more sinned against than sinner" - they got a LOT of criticism despite the fact that the Government were the ones who wanted a "no growth" franchise with no plans to replace Pacers and kept kicking the tough decisions into the distance (deferring them and extending the deadlines without committing to anything) - but they did make a number of modest improvements and you can argue that the kind of "partnerships" can be of a lot more practical benefit than a smattering of swanky new trains across the franchise

However a number of people on here won't ever accept that the privatised franchise was better for some lines than the Government run Northern that we have now - if Serco/Ned had pulled the same stunts (like essentially abandoning certain lines) then there'd have been outrage!

The group have been undated with messages from those within the railway industry highlighting the bazaar campaign of extending the Gainsborough central service to Barton-upon-Humber.

To take a train and a service to a place where the passenger flow isn't going doesn't benefit these communities.

If you want to have a better service on the Barton line then it was suggested that you extend the present Doncaster to Scunthorpe stopping service to Barton on Humber

Agreed - extending the Doncaster stoppers beyond Scunthorpe seems a more practical thing (I'd prefer them going to Grimsby rather than Barton, personally, but that idea of a direct train from Sheffield to Barton via Brigg feels like a really tokenistic idea - how many people in Barton want to go to Sheffield each day and would rather sit on a slow service than take a fast TPE from Habrough?)

 

[WestAnglian]

Wasn't a weekday service as far as Gainsborough Central introduced (or planned to be introduced) not long before Covid hit?

Yes, it was running in mid-2019. Hourly, I think.

The group have been undated with messages from those within the railway industry highlighting the bazaar campaign of extending the Gainsborough central service to Barton-upon-Humber.

To take a train and a service to a place where the passenger flow isn't going doesn't benefit these communities.

If you want to have a better service on the Barton line then it was suggested that you extend the present Doncaster to Scunthorpe stopping service to Barton on Humber.

The Barton line that would then have the option of either travelling East to Grimsby and Cleethorpes or West to Scunthorpe and Doncaster.

As it has been pointed out, from an operational point of view the first train would not get back to Sheffield from Barton-upon-Humber until mid morning, plus the fact that it has been highlighted that the current train operator does not wish to run the present service.

The group have taken all the information on board from those in the railway industry, and have passed comment on to the restoring your railway team that this idea should be rejected.

Sadly it does not make economical or logistical sense.

I make no comment on the Barton scheme, but nobody seems to have mentioned the reason claimed by NR for the passenger service to be Saturdays only, which is that the paths are needed for freight during the week. So it isn't entirely about the economics of a passenger flow. But it would be expensive to fix, requiring at the least resignalling.

 

[30907]

I make no comment on the Barton scheme, but nobody seems to have mentioned the reason claimed by NR for the passenger service to be Saturdays only, which is that the paths are needed for freight during the week. So it isn't entirely about the economics of a passenger flow. But it would be expensive to fix, requiring at the least resignalling.

That was the reason back in 1990-odd.
A look at RTT shows a very different situation now. The majority of revenue-earning freight runs on 4 night, Mon to Thur from 2200-0600; there are a couple of afternoon trains (MFO this week) and 3-4 Saturdays when the line would normally be open for passenger traffic.
That doesn't mean it would be economical to open the line weekday daytimes, with present signalling, but there's no freight in the way of it.

 

[DeeGee]

I make no comment on the Barton scheme, but nobody seems to have mentioned the reason claimed by NR for the passenger service to be Saturdays only, which is that the paths are needed for freight during the week.

Which was, IIRC, the reason given for Sheffield-Cleethorpes having to be bustituted all the way for months on end after the Hatfield Colliery landslip. Any machinations by the local interested parties to route along the Brigg line were rebuffed 'because freight'

That was the reason back in 1990-odd.
A look at RTT shows a very different situation now. The majority of revenue-earning freight runs on 4 night, Mon to Thur from 2200-0600; there are a couple of afternoon trains (MFO this week) and 3-4 Saturdays when the line would normally be open for passenger traffic.
That doesn't mean it would be economical to open the line weekday daytimes, with present signalling, but there's no freight in the way of it.

Interesting, thanks.

 

[Martin Scott]

Anyone know why the service is not running this Saturday (12/2/22)? It was shown on National Rail Enquiries when I planned it last week but has now disappeared. I can't see any reference to engineering work or bus replacement on Northern Rail website. I was looking forward to a first ever trip on the Brigg line and back via Market Rasen on my way to Grimsby to watch the football on Saturday.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

Seems to be maybe a couple of services from Gainsborough Central in the Sheffield direction.

 

[Glenn1969]

RTT shows this service not running this month but back on 5th March

 

[Peterthegreat]

I wouldn't believe anything on RTT relating to future Northern services!

 

[DeeGee]

Anyone know why the service is not running this Saturday (12/2/22)? It was shown on National Rail Enquiries when I planned it last week but has now disappeared. I can't see any reference to engineering work or bus replacement on Northern Rail website. I was looking forward to a first ever trip on the Brigg line and back via Market Rasen on my way to Grimsby to watch the football on Saturday.

I'm in the same boat, was going to use this train, connecting at Retford, to take the ECML to London. I was warned elsewhere on this forum, though, that there was a chance it wouldn't run.

 

[robbeech]

RTT shows this service not running this month but back on 5th March

It’s in journey planners from next week.

Just as it was last week for this week.

 

[IBLRG]

The Brigg line service are penciled in for returning on Saturday the 19th of February.

 

[DeeGee]

The Brigg line service are penciled in for returning on Saturday the 19th of February.

As they were for the 12th Feb last week!

 

[robbeech]

As they were for the 12th Feb last week!

And indeed the ones for the 5th Feb were pulled on 21st Jan.

As this thread says, they don't want to run the service at all so any excuse to not do so will be used.

The Brigg line service are penciled in for returning on Saturday the 19th of February.

They've been removed from the timetable today (11/2/22) along with the 26th Feb. They're back from 5th March, but of course they probably won't be.

 

[IBLRG]

Welcome to the Forum - nice to hear something positive about the Serco/Abellio version of Northern - I think that they were "more sinned against than sinner" - they got a LOT of criticism despite the fact that the Government were the ones who wanted a "no growth" franchise with no plans to replace Pacers and kept kicking the tough decisions into the distance (deferring them and extending the deadlines without committing to anything) - but they did make a number of modest improvements and you can argue that the kind of "partnerships" can be of a lot more practical benefit than a smattering of swanky new trains across the franchise

However a number of people on here won't ever accept that the privatised franchise was better for some lines than the Government run Northern that we have now - if Serco/Ned had pulled the same stunts (like essentially abandoning certain lines) then there'd have been outrage!



Agreed - extending the Doncaster stoppers beyond Scunthorpe seems a more practical thing (I'd prefer them going to Grimsby rather than Barton, personally, but that idea of a direct train from Sheffield to Barton via Brigg feels like a really tokenistic idea - how many people in Barton want to go to Sheffield each day and would rather sit on a slow service than take a fast TPE from Habrough?)

With the line between Grimsby Town and Cleethorpes singled from 1985, there is now pathing Issues.

So Grimsby Town needs to be better utilised, say if platform 3 was accessed from both ends and each platform was bi-directional.

Hearing on the grapevine that the Brigg Line passenger services will be suspended, with no replacement bus services, until Saturday 23rd April (St George's Day)

 

[STINT47]

I was thinking of taking a trip to Cleethorpes via the Brigg line tomorrow but see that all services are suspended till April. What is more surprising is that there is no rail replacement buses in operation meaning that this station has been effectively closed for several months. I was wondering is this legal as no closure notice was given and no consultation has taken place? Perhaps it would it be worth making a complaint to get at least a bus service put in place.


Incidentally it says that the reason no services can run is due to staff absences caused by Covid, an excuse that is wearing very thin in my view given that all legal restrictions have now ended. I feel it's time companies stopped using this as a reason for poor service.

 

[dk1]

Incidentally it says that the reason no services can run is due to staff absences caused by Covid, an excuse that is wearing very thin in my view given that all legal restrictions have now ended. I feel it's time companies stopped using this as a reason for poor service.

Much crew training was very poor & effectively shelved sadly with the TOCs in that part of the UK during the pandemic. I suspect being only a limited operation it’ll be bottom of the pile for resurrection in the short to medium term.

 

[Peterthegreat]

Northern are using "shortage of train crew" on a regular basis as the reason for both planned cancellations (such as on the Brigg line) and for many ad hoc cancellations. This is particularly noticeable in South Yorkshire/North Lincolnshire.

 

[Starmill]

The shortage of train crew was given as the reason for withdrawing the service in 2020 too. Lots of routes have just had their service pulled completely at one time or another.

 

[nanstallon]

Northern seem to be pretty rubbish.

 

[IBLRG]

According to the Northern Rail press department, the Brigg line services are supposed to start again this Saturday.

However......

There are currently no units allocated to work the services and all the train crew have been rostered to do other duties.

 

[Peterthegreat]

According to the Northern Rail press department, the Brigg line services are supposed to start again this Saturday.

However......

There is currently no units allocated to work the services and all the train crew have been roasted to do other duties.

No wonder there are staff shortages if they are "roasting" the crew.

 

[ricoblade]

Anyone know if the Gainsborough Central to Sheffield service is running? It's showing in the NR planner for tomorrow and I intend to take it from Retford.

 

[_toommm_]

Anyone know if the Gainsborough Central to Sheffield service is running? It's showing in the NR planner for tomorrow and I intend to take it from Retford.

One a day to Gainsborough Central (the morning service comes in ECS from Sheffield), and two a day from Gainsborough Central tomorrow:

Realtime Trains | Departures from Gainsborough Central all day on 09/04/2022

Train information at Gainsborough Central all day on 09/04/2022. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

 

[43055]

Anyone know if the Gainsborough Central to Sheffield service is running? It's showing in the NR planner for tomorrow and I intend to take it from Retford.

Looks to be cancelled until December as there is no times in for the May to December timetable on real time trains.