Brighton and Hove / Metrobus

[ValleyLines142]

Not sure if a thread has been created for operations in the south however if there is I apologise!

Just come back from my trip to Brighton. I've been going to Brighton for many years now and have used the buses regularly.

I'm very impressed with the Brighton and Hove network. Buses are very frequent, smart and modern.

However I noticed on the 12 today that many journeys were full on both decks. The Streetdecks are very smart vehicles but are they long enough to cope with the loadings? Admittedly it is half term this week but I feel the longer-length Scania OmniDekkas that previously worked the 12 (901-918) had more capacity!

Some of the Geminis have fantastic liveries. 421, 439, 489 and 490 look wonderful (especially 421, what a beauty!).

 

[Hophead]

Longer double-deckers aren't really an option - the Streetdecks are, I think 11.8m. Seating capacity has been reduced from the Omnidekkers (88 down to 81) but those did cram in the seats a bit; plus the new buses have a table as well. At present, some journeys are covered by standard fleet vehicles as the company awaits delivery of a further 3 Streetdecks for the 12 - the basic service was increased from 8 to 9 buses per hour in April.

 

[ooo]

Does anyone know if they will be getting contactless soon? Was quite surprised that they don't yet have it

 

[Robertj21a]

Longer double-deckers aren't really an option - the Streetdecks are, I think 11.8m. Seating capacity has been reduced from the Omnidekkers (88 down to 81) but those did cram in the seats a bit; plus the new buses have a table as well. At present, some journeys are covered by standard fleet vehicles as the company awaits delivery of a further 3 Streetdecks for the 12 - the basic service was increased from 8 to 9 buses per hour in April.

Yet another 3 due ? - on top of the additional 3 already ordered, and in service ?

 

[goldisgood]

Yet another 3 due ? - on top of the additional 3 already ordered, and in service ?

The date on that comment is before they were due!

 

[Robertj21a]

The date on that comment is before they were due!

Ah, thanks. Hadn't appreciated that it was a 2017 posting !!

 

[Gingerbus1991]

Longer double-deckers aren't really an option - the Streetdecks are, I think 11.8m. Seating capacity has been reduced from the Omnidekkers (88 down to 81) but those did cram in the seats a bit; plus the new buses have a table as well. At present, some journeys are covered by standard fleet vehicles as the company awaits delivery of a further 3 Streetdecks for the 12 - the basic service was increased from 8 to 9 buses per hour in April.

The Streetdeck comes in 10.5 or 11.4m lengths

There Coaster service has the longer ones, where as the double-door versions are 10.5 in length

 

[ValleyLines142]

Used the 29 today between Brighton and Tonbridge Wells. Services to/from Lewes in particular were quite busy because of some medieval festival. Had 684 on the way out and 427 on the way back; the USB ports on the latter were a big welcome!

 

[Man of Kent]

Does anyone know if they will be getting contactless soon? Was quite surprised that they don't yet have it

They will be switching to Ticketer next spring, which will allow contactless transactions.

 

[Bungle965]

They will be switching to Ticketer next spring, which will allow contactless transactions.

Good to hear, it did come as a bit of surprise that they did not already have them as they are part of the Go-Ahead group who for almost all of their op's have Ticketer in place.
Even the likes of EYMS who are a new purchase for them now have Ticketer.
Sam

 

[ooo]

They will be switching to Ticketer next spring, which will allow contactless transactions.

Thanks.

Also, Is there a reason why they continue to use the 12 hour clock when almost everyone else uses the 24 hour clock

 

[Robertj21a]

Thanks.

Also, Is there a reason why they continue to use the 12 hour clock when almost everyone else uses the 24 hour clock

They've always said that their passengers prefer it - and you don't mess with them in Brighton, or Hove.

 

[cphilb]

I have acouple of questions about Ticketer.
Will Ticketer have/Is it planned to have daily Fare-capping on B&H services with contactless Ticketer as happens with TfL?
If so, will it also include the services where the Keycard Network Saver currently applies such as on Big Lemon/some Compass services?

 

[Hophead]

I have acouple of questions about Ticketer.
Will Ticketer have/Is it planned to have daily Fare-capping on B&H services with contactless Ticketer as happens with TfL?
If so, will it also include the services where the Keycard Network Saver currently applies such as on Big Lemon/some Compass services?

My understanding is that the scheme will, indeed, incorporate a daily cap (necessitating at least some element of touch-out). Whether other, independent, operators will be included, I couldn't say, though I would expect Metrobus to be included. At present, KeyGo offers a daily cap, but is only valid on the Go-Ahead companies. It would be a shame if the network benefits of the current range of paper and KeyCard / M-ticket savers were diminished but I just have a feeling that is likely to happen.

For info, it is currently possible to use contactless within the city of Brighton & Hove, but only on Stagecoach or Compass vehicles.

As to why Brighton & Hove are so late to the party, they have said that they wanted contactless to be at least as fast in operation as Key Cards (raises digital eyebrow), and they wanted to get it right (and, with a daily cap, I would suggest things look promising), but I suspect they had to wait in order to place a large order for machines to cover the combined B&H and Metrobus fleets.

 

[radamfi]

They've always said that their passengers prefer it - and you don't mess with them in Brighton, or Hove.

And is probably the only reason why their timetable book has never qualified as one of Barry Doe's "best timetables"

http://www.barrydoe.co.uk/best.pdf

although the one from Metrobus is hailed as the best timetable of all.

 

[trainmania100]

Living in Newhaven I do catch 12 Brighton <> Eastbourne buses regularly.
Vast majority of the people on the bus are usually foreign students going to seven sisters country park and Eastbourne. Combined with coastal walkers, the coaster 12 bus is frequently packed.

 

[radamfi]

As to why Brighton & Hove are so late to the party, they have said that they wanted contactless to be at least as fast in operation as Key Cards (raises digital eyebrow), and they wanted to get it right (and, with a daily cap, I would suggest things look promising), but I suspect they had to wait in order to place a large order for machines to cover the combined B&H and Metrobus fleets.

Brighton & Hove is one of the few operators in Britain that takes boarding time seriously. In reality, rather than being "late to the party", they are years ahead of most other operators as they have been using smartcards for many years. So called "contactless payment" from most operators still takes the form of buying a paper ticket from the driver.

 

[cphilb]

Living in Newhaven I do catch 12 Brighton <> Eastbourne buses regularly.
Vast majority of the people on the bus are usually foreign students going to seven sisters country park and Eastbourne. Combined with coastal walkers, the coaster 12 bus is frequently packed.

I can concur, as often as the 12s/13x run, I quite often can't get on to/from Seaford particularly on summer Saturday/Sunday mornings. Perhaps another increase in frequency?

 

[Man of Kent]

Brighton & Hove is one of the few operators in Britain that takes boarding time seriously. In reality, rather than being "late to the party", they are years ahead of most other operators as they have been using smartcards for many years. So called "contactless payment" from most operators still takes the form of buying a paper ticket from the driver.

"Contactless payment" does what it says on the tin. It is not "ticketless payment". I still value getting a paper receipt for what I have just spent, whether that be on a bus, at a railway station, in a coffee shop or at a supermarket. But yes, I understand that ticket price capping requires a different approach, and I also know that the ITSO-based Robin Hood PAYG card in Nottingham offers multi-operator capping, albeit essentially in a flat fare environment.

 

[radamfi]

"Contactless payment" does what it says on the tin. It is not "ticketless payment". I still value getting a paper receipt for what I have just spent, whether that be on a bus, at a railway station, in a coffee shop or at a supermarket. But yes, I understand that ticket price capping requires a different approach, and I also know that the ITSO-based Robin Hood PAYG card in Nottingham offers multi-operator capping, albeit essentially in a flat fare environment.

The point is, buying a paper ticket from the driver is still tedious, even if the ticket is bought using a card. It still involves a conversation with the driver. It still means the driver needs to operate the machine. It still requires the passenger to wait for the ticket to print and remove it from the machine. Despite the hype, this is worse than what Brighton & Hove have been offering for many years. Low tech paper solutions have been available since the 1970s that offer faster boarding than buying tickets from the driver.

 

[Man of Kent]

The point is, buying a paper ticket from the driver is still tedious, even if the ticket is bought using a card. It still involves a conversation with the driver. It still means the driver needs to operate the machine. It still requires the passenger to wait for the ticket to print and remove it from the machine. Despite the hype, this is worse than what Brighton & Hove have been offering for many years. Low tech paper solutions have been available since the 1970s that offer faster boarding than buying tickets from the driver.

All sorts of solutions are available, but which ones are commercially viable? Continental experience is not necessarily a guide as to what should be applied in the UK.

 

[radamfi]

All sorts of solutions are available, but which ones are commercially viable? Continental experience is not necessarily a guide as to what should be applied in the UK.

Wasting time issuing tickets doesn't sound like it is commercially optimal. Increased journey times means more vehicles and drivers required and is less attractive to potential passengers.

 

[Man of Kent]

Wasting time issuing tickets doesn't sound like it is commercially optimal. Increased journey times means more vehicles and drivers required and is less attractive to potential passengers.

Again, what are the alternatives? Off bus sales cost money. Streetside ticket machines are both costly to install, and costly to maintain. Even if they do not accept cash, they still need regular supplies of ticket stock. Selling via an agency such as Payzone (or even a railway station) attracts a percentage fee, which can be as high as 9%. The same applies to tickets sold via mobile. All of this means that simply selling off bus is not the 'commercially optimal' position either.

 

[radamfi]

Again, what are the alternatives? Off bus sales cost money. Streetside ticket machines are both costly to install, and costly to maintain. Even if they do not accept cash, they still need regular supplies of ticket stock. Selling via an agency such as Payzone (or even a railway station) attracts a percentage fee, which can be as high as 9%. The same applies to tickets sold via mobile. All of this means that simply selling off bus is not the 'commercially optimal' position either.

Even in the UK, several companies including Brighton & Hove manage to sell most of their tickets off bus. Given that B&H charge more to pay on the bus compared to using the mobile app or Key card, I suspect that paying the driver is the option that the company likes the least.

 

[ag51ruk]

Again, what are the alternatives? Off bus sales cost money. Streetside ticket machines are both costly to install, and costly to maintain. Even if they do not accept cash, they still need regular supplies of ticket stock. Selling via an agency such as Payzone (or even a railway station) attracts a percentage fee, which can be as high as 9%. The same applies to tickets sold via mobile. All of this means that simply selling off bus is not the 'commercially optimal' position either.

Touch on and touch off - fairly common in some large cities around the world (Sydney and Singapore for example) and Trent Barton in the UK

 

[MedwayValiant]

Conductors!

Not everywhere or at all times by any means, but if a route typically runs something like three quarters full then it just might be more efficient to use conductors. The improved journey time means that the service can be slightly less frequent - thus saving a bus and a driver, who is paid more than a conductor - and passengers would like the novelty.

 

[Hophead]

Looks like new ticket machines are in place, with a requirement for QR-coded tickets to be scanned from this Saturday (10th November). Note that this does not imply that anything else is changed and contactless introduced.

 

[Hophead]

Contactless payments now accepted on Brighton & Hove and Metrobus (for the purchase of tickets in lieu of cash). The aim is still to move towards touch-in/touch-out next year.

 

[Hophead]

On the City Bus News website (one of at least 3 that the company runs), Martin Harris (General Manager) has outlined 15 commitments for 2019.

#1 30 new emissions-free buses in the city centre
#2 more contactless options
#3 reviewing bus stops that delay bus users
#4 contributing to the council’s bus shelters and highways programme
#5 working with council, retail and other partners on a shared vision for travel
#6 upgraded buses on many routes
#7 cleaner buses
#8 improved bus journey information, digitally and face-to-face
#9 more comprehensive information service at central stops
#10 more flexible payment and savings options
#11 increased transparency and regular performance updates so passengers know where their fares go
#12 new neighbourhood advisors to help with ticketing, travel planning, service feedback and accessibility
#13 piloting a new, flexible bus service to complement the existing network
#14 working with partners to reduce loneliness and isolation in communities
#15 involving customers in our Community Fund decisions

Of particular interest (to me at least) are numbers 1, 2, 8, 9 & 13.

 

[goldisgood]

According to a comment seen on Flickr, there are 30 Enviro 400 hybrids on order for the 5/5A/5B. Does anyone know any more on this? If this is true, it's interesting that these buses aren't from Wright.