Brighton & Hove / Metrobus Discussion

[8ace]

Yes same, I'm the type of person that deliberately walks down to the Steine just to nab the best seats on the 700! (similarly I walk up to the station to get the best seats on the 12X).

Old Steine stop U is my stop of choice on my journey home from town on the 27 for that very reason

 

[ValleyLines142]

Old Steine stop U is my stop of choice on my journey home from town on the 27 for that very reason

But surely the 27 will be busy by the time it's picked up at the Clock Tower and North Street, or are you referring to in the Westdene direction?

 

[8ace]

But surely the 27 will be busy by the time it's picked up at the Clock Tower and North Street, or are you referring to in the Westdene direction?

Westdene

 

[Robertj21a]

Much of all that is totally unnecessary and breaks up long term routes, for no real benefit.
Not to forget that Brighton & Hove is a major, award winning, bus operator across the country. The passenger loads on board would amaze most other operators.
In short, no need to alter what is already a highly successful operation.

 

[700007]

The network works very well as it does at the moment with not much need for change. It would be lovely to see the Coasters regularly going back to Eastbourne Pier as they did pre pandemic but that's a minor tweak.

The most 'radical' suggestion I hold is converting the 60 (Old Steine - Steyning) into a full time, once-an-hour service and curtailing the hourly Steyning trips on the 2s back to Shoreham. Allows for the 2 to be a bit more reliable and gives faster journeys from Steyning, Bramber, Upper Beeding back into Hove and Brighton. Also sorts the long old issue of wanting to give Manor Hall Road a proper bus service but in a viable format. I think this is viable from a commercial sense but without the data, am I that informed to call that?

 

[brightonbususe]

While we're brainstorming, as someone in the Hailsham direction, I'd love some kind of faster Regency service to Brighton. At the moment it takes twice as long as it would by car and the Ringer/Lewes part of the route is - to put it mildly - a long, hard slog. In the opposite direction, to Eastbourne, it's actually an incredibly fast route. I realise there's probably no practical solution, but it's a barrier to me using the service more than I would as the idea of losing 3+ hours to get to Brighton is not appealing.

 

[Sussexwatch]

While we're brainstorming, as someone in the Hailsham direction, I'd love some kind of faster Regency service to Brighton. At the moment it takes twice as long as it would by car and the Ringer/Lewes part of the route is - to put it mildly - a long, hard slog. In the opposite direction, to Eastbourne, it's actually an incredibly fast route. I realise there's probably no practical solution, but it's a barrier to me using the service more than I would as the idea of losing 3+ hours to get to Brighton is not appealing.

I'm not sure why it takes you 3+ hours. I use the 28 regularly and yes, it can be a slow slog if you go beyond Ringmer but usage on the new part of the route is definately on the increase. The journey time on the 28 from Brighton to Eastbourne via Lewes, Ringmer and Hailsham is around 2 hours on most journeys and no one would normally travel between Brighton and Eastbourne this way as the 12X along the A259 is much quicker. Apart from omitting the Broyle Estate there isn't much that could be done to speed up the 28. The Malling section passing the Sussex Police HQ adds a few minutes but the stops are well used. If the plan by East Sussex CC to put new stops in Lewes at Phoenix Causeway goes ahead buses towards Eastbourne won't have to do a double run so that would help but this is controversial because many people would prefer the Bus Station to be re-opened.

 

[brightonbususe]

I'm not sure why it takes you 3+ hours. I use the 28 regularly and yes, it can be a slow slog if you go beyond Ringmer but usage on the new part of the route is definately on the increase. The journey time on the 28 from Brighton to Eastbourne via Lewes, Ringmer and Hailsham is around 2 hours on most journeys and no one would normally travel between Brighton and Eastbourne this way as the 12X along the A259 is much quicker. Apart from omitting the Broyle Estate there isn't much that could be done to speed up the 28. The Malling section passing the Sussex Police HQ adds a few minutes but the stops are well used. If the plan by East Sussex CC to put new stops in Lewes at Phoenix Causeway goes ahead buses towards Eastbourne won't have to do a double run so that would help but this is controversial because many people would prefer the Bus Station to be re-opened.

Yes sorry, poorly worded, I meant if I want to go to Brighton, I lose 3+ hours there and back. But like I say, I realise there's no practical solution (as much as I'd love an express service that skips Broyle, the Police HQ and somehow skirts past Lewes rather than going through. Like you say it's getting good use, it's just a pipedream for me, especially as going in Eastbourne is so fast compared to Stagecoach services.

 

[700007]

Yes sorry, poorly worded, I meant if I want to go to Brighton, I lose 3+ hours there and back. But like I say, I realise there's no practical solution (as much as I'd love an express service that skips Broyle, the Police HQ and somehow skirts past Lewes rather than going through. Like you say it's getting good use, it's just a pipedream for me, especially as going in Eastbourne is so fast compared to Stagecoach services.

I think the new 28 is almost supposed to be two routes merged into one which is effectively a Brighton to Hailsham and Hailsham to Eastbourne route, with people wanting to do Brighton to Eastbourne put on the faster and much more frequent Coaster services.

Obviously you as a Hailsham local means that you're sort of caught in the middle as you acknowledge not much can be done to make your journey quicker, and you have the longest point to point journeys out of everyone else on the route. Perhaps a limited stop peak time offering could help?

 

[Park47515]

I think the new 28 is almost supposed to be two routes merged into one which is effectively a Brighton to Hailsham and Hailsham to Eastbourne route, with people wanting to do Brighton to Eastbourne put on the faster and much more frequent Coaster services.

Obviously you as a Hailsham local means that you're sort of caught in the middle as you acknowledge not much can be done to make your journey quicker, and you have the longest point to point journeys out of everyone else on the route. Perhaps a limited stop peak time offering could help?

How much would a 28X save though, you would realistically start it at Hailsham Tesco, and want to be mostly all stops Hailsham to Laughton, to provide journey opportunities.

Maling to Churchill Square is 43 min, on the 29X. So you would still be looking at 1h20 at least.

But then maybe the 0607 off of Eastbourne an express would seem worth a try?

 

[brightonbususe]

I think the new 28 is almost supposed to be two routes merged into one which is effectively a Brighton to Hailsham and Hailsham to Eastbourne route, with people wanting to do Brighton to Eastbourne put on the faster and much more frequent Coaster services.

Obviously you as a Hailsham local means that you're sort of caught in the middle as you acknowledge not much can be done to make your journey quicker, and you have the longest point to point journeys out of everyone else on the route. Perhaps a limited stop peak time offering could help?

Yeah, when you put it like that you're right, I'm just thinking out loud really. It's just the Ringer/Lewes part of the journey takes about 25 minutes and it would be nice to have an occassional express route that doesn't have to take so many detours. But it's always the same with buses, it's impossible to balance the needs of making sure everywhere is well served with regular routes, but also making sure services are fast and efficient.

 

[ItCouldBeJae]

I feel like on weekends there should be either an increase on 271/272 between Haywards Heath & Brighton or a new route number 274 as I feel that'll be an important link to further grow the network. Sort of how the 13X runs frequent on Sundays that sort of thing. Possibly serving more of Burgess Hill or possibly serving Hassocks station directly. Just a thought

 

[DGP]

I feel like on weekends there should be either an increase on 271/272 between Haywards Heath & Brighton or a new route number 274 as I feel that'll be an important link to further grow the network. Sort of how the 13X runs frequent on Sundays that sort of thing. Possibly serving more of Burgess Hill or possibly serving Hassocks station directly. Just a thought

I guess with the 13X, it serves the famous and touristy landmarks of Beachy Head and Birling Gap, which even out of season seem to be popular. With the train service (normally) providing fast and frequent links between Haywards Heath, Burgess Hill, Hassocks and Brighton, I'm not sure what a USP of a 274 would be to make it commercially viable

 

[Park47515]

The 270 running every half an hour Haywards Heath Brighton would have a potential of washing its face. As it tends to have periods of being very busy, and often on a Saturday leaving people behind because it's unable to be a Decker because of the low bridge.

Would also enable you to have Princess Royal - Brighton every 20, and Hassocks - Brighton every 15 with the 273.

There was suggestions of enhanced frequency on them in the various Councils BSIPS, but other than the 273 has come to nothing yet.

 

[Edvid]

Another development with the hydrogen fleet today - a positive one, thankfully!

Liquid hydrogen station at Crawley depot now operational​

Posted by chrispeat on Fri 15th November 2024 - 16:00PM | No Comments

A liquid hydrogen refuelling station at Metrobus’ depot in Crawley is now operational.

The site is to house one of the largest hydrogen bus fleets and refuelling stations in the UK. It fuelled nine buses onsite on its first day (15 November 2024).

Hydrogen will be stored at the Metrobus Crawley depot in liquid form, before converted into gas held in tanks on the roof of vehicles. It took eight minutes to fill an empty tank of a route 100 bus.

Before now, the Metrobus Crawley depot was solely reliant on gaseous hydrogen to fuel the hydrogen buses. The gaseous fuel was delivered to the depot in special hydrogen tanks on trailers, meaning the operation was at a much lower scale and not all hydrogen buses could be fuelled and be fully operational. There still remains regulatory challenges that need to be addressed before the refuelling station can operate at full capacity. The regulations for hydrogen need to catch up to support the sustainable goal of decarbonisation in the transport industry.

Ed Wills, Managing Director for Metrobus & Brighton & Hove Buses, said: “The plan is for the entire fleet of Fastway buses to operate daily with 16 buses on routes 10 and 20, and nine further buses on the route 100. That’s 25 vehicles in total, with a longer-term plan of fuelling a fleet of up to 54 buses from the Metrobus Crawley depot.”

“This innovation for buses is a giant leap forward for sustainable transport with Metrobus leading the way in the decarbonisation of local public transport. Less emissions from road vehicles helps to tackle climate change benefiting the environment and the communities we serve.”

Metrobus claims liquid hydrogen is an ideal fuel for operating the intensive 24/7/365 Fastway service, which has lengthy routes, heavy passenger loads and hilly terrain. The buses can run for up to 600 miles before they need refuelling.

Today, 14 (of 20) Hydroliners tracked on the 10/20, plus 4 (of 6 listed) on the 100.

 

[Murray J]

Today, 14 (of 20) Hydroliners tracked on the 10/20, plus 4 (of 6 listed) on the 100.

This must've used up most of their hydrogen because (unless there are tracking issues) 0 Hydroliners are out today so far.

 

[MrJeeves]

The 270 running every half an hour Haywards Heath Brighton would have a potential of washing its face. As it tends to have periods of being very busy, and often on a Saturday leaving people behind because it's unable to be a Decker because of the low bridge.

I've made the mistake of relying on the 270 before during rail strikes... I was stood by the garden centre just before Stonepound Crossroads by Hassocks trying to get home on the last bus of the night. As it approached, I saw "Sorry, bus full!" and my stomach dropped.

Thankfully, a few actually got out at that stop so the driver let me on, but if they didn't I have absolutely no idea what I would have done.

Nowadays, I'd never rely on the 270, but I do still find it a decent option to get to Haywards Heath when I fancy something a bit different to the train, or as an alternative to the train from Brighton just because it's closer to Churchill Sq and my home at the other end.

 

[Park47515]

There is something to be said for it running, with the same Limited Stop pattern as the 273 south of Patcham Place, to allow as many people from north of Patcham to board.

Having said that's that doesn't stop this fact...

I've made the mistake of relying on the 270 before during rail strikes... I was stood by the garden centre just before Stonepound Crossroads by Hassocks trying to get home on the last bus of the night. As it approached, I saw "Sorry, bus full!" and my stomach dropped.

Thankfully, a few actually got out at that stop so the driver let me on, but if they didn't I have absolutely no idea what I would have done.

Nowadays, I'd never rely on the 270, but I do still find it a decent option to get to Haywards Heath when I fancy something a bit different to the train, or as an alternative to the train from Brighton just because it's closer to Churchill Sq and my home at the other end.

You'd think to think that some common sense would be used, and the Wheelchair Guarantee would be used but for normal passengers, and a taxi called. But they obviously don't have to do that... (And in practise, it would depend on the driver)

 

[SLC001]

Remind me, why was hydrogen chosen? It's range is superior to electric, refuel times are around 10 minutes or thereabouts, better cold weather performance etc., but running costs have been reported as 2.4 times that of electric equivalents. Was a grant available or is it possible that the costs of operating hydrogen are predicted to come down as the technology improves and scale of production reduces costs.
I am fascinated as to whether hydrogen buses are a solution or part of an overall strategy?

 

[JonathanH]

I am fascinated as to whether hydrogen buses are a solution or part of an overall strategy?

The relevant routes are pretty much a 24 hour a day operation so electric vehicles didn't really work in that context given insufficient time to recharge. Hydrogen offered an alternative that was deemed practical to implement.

There was an article which mentioned Metrobus's hydrogen strategy in Buses magazine.

 

[Edvid]

Remind me, why was hydrogen chosen? It's range is superior to electric, refuel times are around 10 minutes or thereabouts, better cold weather performance etc., but running costs have been reported as 2.4 times that of electric equivalents. Was a grant available or is it possible that the costs of operating hydrogen are predicted to come down as the technology improves and scale of production reduces costs.
I am fascinated as to whether hydrogen buses are a solution or part of an overall strategy?

In addition to the previous post, a requisite grid upgrade in relation to Crawley-based battery-electric buses was (is) years away, as per Ed Wills in Part 1 of Air Products' hydrogen podcast (19:53 onwards).

He also features in Part 2 (25:10 onwards), where the following is mentioned:

* First batch of 20 Hydroliners and infrastructure subsidised through the ULEB and JIVE schemes
* Second batch of 34 purchased by Surrey County Council and leased back to Metrobus
* Third batch of 43 subsidised through the ZEBRA2 scheme

 

[Park47515]

Interestingly there is one of the 17 plate ex Sullivan Buses parked at Crawley post refurbishment, which has a stickered destination board for Old Steine/Universities. With the implication therefore that they are exclusively for the 25.

Are they not Euro6 compliant? Otherwise, I'd expect them to have a normal Hanover destination display.

 

[aswilliamsuk]

Interestingly there is one of the 17 plate ex Sullivan Buses parked at Crawley post refurbishment, which has a stickered destination board for Old Steine/Universities. With the implication therefore that they are exclusively for the 25.

Are they not Euro6 compliant? Otherwise, I'd expect them to have a normal Hanover destination display.

They are Euro6 compliant - they were previously on TfL work so had to be.

I wonder if they are "blinded" like this to ensure they are routebound to the 25.

 

[Lynford1976]

Interestingly there is one of the 17 plate ex Sullivan Buses parked at Crawley post refurbishment, which has a stickered destination board for Old Steine/Universities. With the implication therefore that they are exclusively for the 25.

Are they not Euro6 compliant? Otherwise, I'd expect them to have a normal Hanover destination display.

I believe it is because Hanover don't currently have the capacity to provide new displays.

The vinyls are only a temporary fixture - there is a need to get the vehicles out so that the remaining Volvo Hybrids can be retired from Brighton service. Electronic displays will be fitted in due course.

 

[Park47515]

They are Euro6 compliant - they were previously on TfL work so had to be.

I wonder if they are "blinded" like this to ensure they are routebound to the 25.

I believe it is because Hanover don't currently have the capacity to provide new displays.

The vinyls are only a temporary fixture - there is a need to get the vehicles out so that the remaining Volvo Hybrids can be retired from Brighton service. Electronic displays will be fitted in due course.

Thanks both, the quick look on the DSVA website was inconclusive in euro status. But them being quickly pressed so the Hybrids can do is a logical output.

 

[brightonbususe]

Pictures of the ex-Sullivan buses in various states of repainting have been added to B&H's 2024 fleet list page if you're interested.

Before
During
After

It looks like they're keeping the second doors on at least some of them?

 

[Mark L]

Pictures of the ex-Sullivan buses in various states of repainting have been added to B&H's 2024 fleet list page if you're interested.

Before
During
After

It looks like they're keeping the second doors on at least some of them?

Dual door buses make up a significant part of the fleet already. Additionally removing the centre exit means that a manual ramp needs to be installed at the front which is costly.

 

[Hophead]

Dual door buses make up a significant part of the fleet already. Additionally removing the centre exit means that a manual ramp needs to be installed at the front which is costly.

The ramp will have to moved as not all stops accommodate a centre door.

 

[Mark L]

The ramp will have to moved as not all stops accommodate a centre door.

I’m not aware that this has been done with any of the other transfers in from London that have retained dual door layout (but am happy to be proved wrong as I haven't looked closely). In practice the centre ramp can be accommodated at all stops (except for “nose in” bus stations) by pulling forward slightly or stopping just short. It’s not elegant but it works!

 

[Hophead]

I can't speak for 221/2/3 having never used them, but the PIS on the 2-door buses bought new informs passengers that they must alight from the front door at some stops.