Bristol to Chepstow Permitted Routes

[gazr]

Tried looking for information online on what constitutes a permitted route; is there a resource for this? I'm interested in going via Gloucester this weekend (Saturday) as there is a XC service that runs from Bristol to Gloucester (Platform 4) and then continues on with a different headcode to Cardiff (stopping at Chepstow). I would also like to return via Gloucester.

The ticket prices for this part of England are freaking outrageous from what I can make out from journey planners. What's the best way of doing this?

 

[Romilly]

Offpeak day return Bristol Temple Meads to Gloucester, and offpeak day return Gloucester to Chepstow. Total £22.30. It's £10.90 for a Bristol TM to Chepstow offpeak day return changing at Severn Tunnel Junction (or Newport).

 

[ForTheLoveOf]

Tried looking for information online on what constitutes a permitted route; is there a resource for this?

The best resource the average "person on the street" has is probably to try and get an itinerary along their intended route to appear on www.trainscanbecheaper.info. This is essentially TrainSplit but with splitting disabled, so it will only sell through tickets, along routes for which those tickets are valid. You can enter up to three via, call at or change at points, and three not via, not calling at or not changing at points. There is also extensive customisation available over maximum number of changes, TOCs, and additional interchange time, so if there is an itinerary you are thinking of, it is highly likely you will be able to make it appear on TrainsCanBeCheaper (provided it is a permitted route).

You can work the permitted routes out for yourself, using the National Routeing Guide, but that is a laborious process in which it is easy to make mistakes or oversights. An itinerary from an accredited National Rail site will stand you in good stead if there are any questions raised over your route.

 

[Romilly]

Bristol Group is a common routeing point for Bristol Temple Meads and Chepstow, which means that the only permitted routes are the shortest route by rail, any route up to 3 miles longer than that shortest route, and journeys on through services. Just because the same rolling stock goes from Bristol to Gloucester, and then from Gloucester to Chepstow, doesn't convert the two separate services into a single one.

 

[JB_B]

Bristol Group is a common routeing point for Bristol Temple Meads and Chepstow, which means that the only permitted routes are the shortest route by rail, any route up to 3 miles longer than that shortest route, and journeys on through services. Just because the same rolling stock goes from Bristol to Gloucester, and then from Gloucester to Chepstow, doesn't convert the two separate services into a single one.

I agree - that isn't a through service and Bristol to Chepstow via Gloucester isn't a permitted route as far as I can see.

Oddly, trainscanbecheaper seems to be offering a 10.90 off-peak day return for the whole journey (but only if you go via Cheltenham as well as Gloucester) - the OP might want to take advantage of that.

 

[gazr]

I agree - that isn't a through service and Bristol to Chepstow via Gloucester isn't a permitted route as far as I can see.

Oddly, trainscanbecheaper seems to be offering a 10.90 off-peak day return for the whole journey (but only if you go via Cheltenham as well as Gloucester) - the OP might want to take advantage of that.

The 10.90 ticket is the price of the off-peak Bristol-Chepstow ticket that others have said is NOT valid via Gloucester. Why trainscanbecheaper wants me to visit Cheltenham Spa via rail replacement bus out and back as part of the journey is ridiculous. Rather conflicting information.

Edit: Sorry for my manners... Thanks to everyone who has replied and tried to help

 

[Dai Corner]

How about an off-peak day return Bristol Temple Meads to Lydney at £15? I think that is valid via Gloucester or Chepstow. Then an anytime day return Lydney-Chepstow at £4.30. Doesn't appear to be an off-peak ticket for this journey.

 

[ForTheLoveOf]

How about an off-peak day return Bristol Temple Meads to Lydney at £15? I think that is valid via Gloucester or Chepstow. Then an anytime day return Lydney-Chepstow at £4.30. Doesn't appear to be an off-peak ticket for this journey.

I'm not sure how that is supposed to be valid, unless I'm missing something obvious. BRI-LYD is a "local journey" under the Routeing Guide, thus only direct trains or travel along a route within 3 miles of the shortest route is permissible. To stay within 3 miles of the shortest route you have to travel via Severn Tunnel Junction.

 

[yorkie]

I'm not sure how that is supposed to be valid, unless I'm missing something obvious. BRI-LYD is a "local journey" under the Routeing Guide, thus only direct trains or travel along a route within 3 miles of the shortest route is permissible. To stay within 3 miles of the shortest route you have to travel via Severn Tunnel Junction.

Indeed it's not valid.

 

[Dai Corner]

Indeed it's not valid.

Im sure I got an itinerary out of trainscanbecheaper before I posted, though I can't now and unfortunately didn't take a screenshot. Apologies for the incorrect info.

 

[kieron]

Bristol Group is a common routeing point for Bristol Temple Meads and Chepstow, which means that the only permitted routes are the shortest route by rail, any route up to 3 miles longer than that shortest route, and journeys on through services.

There's also "anything permitted by an easement". Chepstow is named in easements 13, 30112, 700232 and 700464. These are all to do with Newport rather than Gloucester, so they may not actually help here.

Personally, though, if I wished to make a Bristol - Gloucester - Chepstow - Bristol journey on one day (I'm not sure if this is gazr's intended journey is, so this is just an example), I'd buy a Bristol-Gloucester return, knowing that the PB map covers both routes.

 

[JB_B]

...
Personally, though, if I wished to make a Bristol - Gloucester - Chepstow - Bristol journey on one day (I'm not sure if this is gazr's intended journey is, so this is just an example), I'd buy a Bristol-Gloucester return, knowing that the PB map covers both routes.

Does the Bristol-Gloucester link on PB is cover the route via Chepstow, then? That's not how I'd interpreted it.

 

[kieron]

My understanding is that the link represents a route from Bristol Group to Gloucester which doesn't pass through a routeing point or a station marked on the PB map.

The set of routes which are valid is affected by any relevant easements, of course.

 

[Paul Kelly]

I agree with kieron's interpretation. There are various easements permitting you to travel via Newport in certain circumstances, but they don't apply to a Bristol Temple Meads to Gloucester journey, so you would need to change at Severn Tunnel Junction.

 

[JB_B]

My understanding is that the link represents a route from Bristol Group to Gloucester which doesn't pass through a routeing point or a station marked on the PB map.

Thanks, Kieron,. That is logical. I think it's very tempting to look a the physical geography ( I'd seen the Bristol-Gloucester-Chelthenham links as representing the route via Cam and Dursley then via Gloucester and the Bristol-Cheltenham link representing the Cam and Dursley route then avoiding Gloucester.)

So could we express this rule as:

the link covers any route from from each end of the link with doesn't pass through another routeing point (*) on the map (**). [all subject to any relevant easements, of course] ?

* - is that (1) routeing points only; or (2) routeing points + routing guide interchanges?

** - is that (A) the current map only ; (B) the current map and all other maps in the map combination(if any) or is it (C) any routeing guide map?

 

[Paul Kelly]

The route taken between two routeing points must not pass through any other routeing point at all. (Otherwise I'm sure there'd be lots of crazy looped routes possible.)

 

[JB_B]

Thanks, indigo2 - that's very helpful. I can now see how to convert routeing guide map links into (sets of) physical routes. That's all worked fine apart from an anomaly on Map TU: there's link from G85 (Orpington Group = Orpington, Petts Wood) to Shortlands and v.v. Is that link just redundant or is it there to cover a non-rail connection? I can't find any rail route for either member of G85 to Shortlands that doesn't pass through another routeing point. (You need to zoom in close to Bromley South (BMS) on TU to see there's a direct map link avoiding BMS.)