British heritage lines which are returning to normal, post Covid-19 restrictions.

[74A]

The dartmouth railway only run non stop from Paignton to Kingswear which means Churston and Goodrington Sands are still closed.

 

[12C]

Ravenglass and Eskdale. Still pre booking only in specific seats, and only allowed to travel on your booked train. All intermediate stations still closed. Such a shame when for me one of the main attractions was combining the railway with a good walk or pub meal.

They have been consistently over the top with covid restrictions though, I remember the disappointment taking my kids there in late summer 2020 to find the adventure playgrounds still closed, months after outdoor play areas were allowed to reopen. Not to mention insisting on masks in outdoor coaches when they had already gone to great effort installing screens between every compartment.

 

[Roast Veg]

Whistlestop Valley Railway (former Kirklees Light Railway) are not offering single or return tickets, though this is a business decision rather than coronavirus related. Tickets can only be bought or collected at Clayton West, though public access to Shelley is maintained and passengers who board there will simply be asked to purchase a day pass on arrival at Clayton West.

Skelmanthorpe is an unadvertised call for trains to pass, and Cuckoo's Nest is not served in the ordinary timetable. Both stations are padlocked.

 

[Llanigraham]

What everyone has seemed to ignore is that whilst passenger numbers might be UP, most lines still depend on volunteers to run the "job" and many of those are still unavailable for various reasons.

 

[paul1609]

Think you'll find that all heritage railways are adapting to a new normal post pandemic because of changes in the viability of the product. The target for most now is at least 90% prebooked. How this is implemented varies from railway to railway but I'm afraid the financial reality is that most won't be returning to pre covid practices.

 

[xotGD]

Think you'll find that all heritage railways are adapting to a new normal post pandemic because of changes in the viability of the product. The target for most now is at least 90% prebooked. How this is implemented varies from railway to railway but I'm afraid the financial reality is that most won't be returning to pre covid practices.

All seems fairly normal up here on the KWVR. Turn up, buy a ticket, play on the trains.

 

[bramling]

Reading through the latest Branch Line Society News I noticed a comment regarding the Dean Forest Railway still operating a restricted service based on Norchard. A visit to the DFR revealed this was still to be the case though there is a comment about making contact if one wishes to arrive by mainline service to Lydney Junction.

Rather surprised by this continuing restriction led me to wonder which lines have still not yet returned to a normal any station service.

Ffestiniog and Welsh Highland continue with their "experiences" - though I note this is starting to raise negative comments on social media.

There seems to be some management desire to maintain this approach and have dressed it up claiming that feedback from passengers still worried about Covid prefer it.

Two weeks ago I visited Llangollen Railway and things just appeared 100% normal.

Given the FWHR and Llangollen are only about 30 miles apart and probably draw on the same pool of potential passengers makes me wonder what is going on.

Personally as a member of the Ffestiniog and Welsh Highland societies I was quite happy to see the services operated in 2020 and 2021 in their restricted mode - just to see something operating and get some trips in.

Thus I made a point of making quite a few visits, however, now that I can board a Network Rail service and some heritage lines and have a totally normal experience I no longer feel the inclination to visit lines which have not returned to normal.

Anyone else feel the same?

Absolutely.

We were planning to do a trip to Porthmadog in two weeks time, not specifically to ride on the Ffestiniog and Welsh Highland, but would have spent a day on each. Looking at the whole booking nonsense, we not only decided we wouldn't bother doing the railways, but in all likelihood we are now highly likely to go somewhere else altogether.

Isle of Wight Steam Railway is also still extensively oriented around pre-booking, as is South Tynedale. We did visit the former whilst on the island, however to be honest found the whole thing pretty tedious. For those who want some flexibility or who want to do more than one trip, it completely ruins the day, as well as making things *very* expensive. I find that hard to justify now things are back to normal - it was one thing justifying high prices based on social distancing capacity, but now you pay the same high price and get none of the plus points like your own compartment.

Think you'll find that all heritage railways are adapting to a new normal post pandemic because of changes in the viability of the product. The target for most now is at least 90% prebooked. How this is implemented varies from railway to railway but I'm afraid the financial reality is that most won't be returning to pre covid practices.

I simply don't think this is going to wash, especially now household budgets are being squeezed. *If* railways are going to go to a pre-booking model which ends up costing people a lot more, they are going to have to think carefully indeed about the quality of experience people get in return for that.

To be brutally honest, I think the glut of "grockle tourists" who may well have embraced the pre-booking models over the last two years is going to dry up. Meanwhile the more traditional users, for example those who might want to combine a train ride with a rural walk, have a day out without being tied to places and times, or whatever, find themselves snubbed away.

 

[pdeaves]

We 'do' miniature railways. All those visited this year have been fuss-free. Just queue and get on the train at normal distance from other people. Some last year had carriage end screens and did the full wipe down thing, but I haven't seen that this year (but I haven't been back to the same lines, either, for a fair comparison).

 

[John Luxton]

Think you'll find that all heritage railways are adapting to a new normal post pandemic because of changes in the viability of the product. The target for most now is at least 90% prebooked. How this is implemented varies from railway to railway but I'm afraid the financial reality is that most won't be returning to pre covid practices.

I don't think anyone is against encouraging pre-booking as some lines such as FWHR have always offered that option particularly for observation cars - but then that is what it should be an option.

The prebooking model makes it difficult for not only the enthusiast who might look a the weather and think today is a good day to go to "XYZ Railway" but also the casual punter.

There must be many visitors to areas in which heritage lines operate who see the railway and think - let's stop and have a look. Then to be confronted with pre-booking only or very restrictive purchase on the day options -not everyone wants to say book on the internet using their mobile phone and entering the card detail. It all becomes fiddly - being able to walk up to a ticket window or pay the guard is so much more convenient.

I ended up in a situation towards the end of the 2021 WHR season in October when I prebooked a couple of weeks in advance being a member - yes I received free travel - but as I don't like to be a "free loader" had booked the Pullman Hamper Package.

Arrive at Caernarfon very early given the weather wind and rain I just sat in the car.

As I was about to wander over to the station the phone rang - train cancelled - flooding - fair enough one can't argue with that decision.

However, if things had been normal I would have made my trip decision much closer to the day probably the previous evening after checking the weather.

Given the forecast I just would not have gone.

When I pointed out I was already at Caernarfon having driven over from Liverpool I was then told I could collect the contents of the hamper if I wanted to. As I had paid up front for that I did just that.

Then I had to drive home through weather I would not normally have chosen to drive in for a leisure day out - a 180 mile round trip for nothing.

No I am not a fan of prebooking - unless it is for something really special such as a railtour or particular special event such as a gala weekend.

 

[paul1609]

All seems fairly normal up here on the KWVR. Turn up, buy a ticket, play on the trains.

Indeed but if you'd prebooked you'd have saved 15% on a day rover ticket.

I don't think anyone is against encouraging pre-booking as some lines such as FWHR have always offered that option particularly for observation cars - but then that is what it should be an option.

The prebooking model makes it difficult for not only the enthusiast who might look a the weather and think today is a good day to go to "XYZ Railway" but also the casual punter.

There must be many visitors to areas in which heritage lines operate who see the railway and think - let's stop and have a look. Then to be confronted with pre-booking only or very restrictive purchase on the day options -not everyone wants to say book on the internet using their mobile phone and entering the card detail. It all becomes fiddly - being able to walk up to a ticket window or pay the guard is so much more convenient.

I ended up in a situation towards the end of the 2021 WHR season in October when I prebooked a couple of weeks in advance being a member - yes I received free travel - but as I don't like to be a "free loader" had booked the Pullman Hamper Package.

Arrive at Caernarfon very early given the weather wind and rain I just sat in the car.

As I was about to wander over to the station the phone rang - train cancelled - flooding - fair enough one can't argue with that decision.

However, if things had been normal I would have made my trip decision much closer to the day probably the previous evening after checking the weather.

Given the forecast I just would not have gone.

When I pointed out I was already at Caernarfon having driven over from Liverpool I was then told I could collect the contents of the hamper if I wanted to. As I had paid up front for that I did just that.

Then I had to drive home through weather I would not normally have chosen to drive in for a leisure day out - a 180 mile round trip for nothing.

No I am not a fan of prebooking - unless it is for something really special such as a railtour or particular special event such as a gala weekend.

Im just reporting what is happening across the industry not particularly advocating it. The ideal plan is for at least 90 % prebooking so you can match capacity and therefore costs against income. on a good day if prebooking goes well you could turn up on spec and find that the railway of your choice is sold out and you'll be turned away.
If you don't have very good bookings you could ultimately cancel a train or even a days running. The costs of running have become so high that you can no longer afford to run around empty trains on the hope that the weather will be good and visitors will turn up on spec. This has been made worse by the fact that the secondary spend has been made hugely less profitable by a combination of factors ranging from Amazon in retail to the increases in the minimum wage.
What your seeing now is a change in business model that has only been accelerated by the pandemic, energy and inflation crises.

 

[John Luxton]

Indeed but if you'd prebooked you'd have saved 15% on a day rover ticket.


Im just reporting what is happening across the industry not particularly advocating it. The ideal plan is for at least 90 % prebooking so you can match capacity and therefore costs against income. on a good day if prebooking goes well you could turn up on spec and find that the railway of your choice is sold out and you'll be turned away.
If you don't have very good bookings you could ultimately cancel a train or even a days running. The costs of running have become so high that you can no longer afford to run around empty trains on the hope that the weather will be good and visitors will turn up on spec. This has been made worse by the fact that the secondary spend has been made hugely less profitable by a combination of factors ranging from Amazon in retail to the increases in the minimum wage.
What your seeing now is a change in business model that has only been accelerated by the pandemic, energy and inflation crises.

Surely the way to contain costs would be to offer a basic service - two full line return trips at beginning and end of day available to all pre-books and turn ups.

Anything in between could be book in advance.

I recall years ago in the days of the old BR national timetable which featured many heritage lines Snowdon Mountain Railway had a foot note to their timetable that no train would operate unless it had the equivalent of 24 passengers. Thus the idea of operating a demand led service is nothing new.

I also don't see any problem with incentivizing booking in advance for a discount that will appeal to some and appears to be an increasingly common feature.

 

[xotGD]

Indeed but if you'd prebooked you'd have saved 15% on a day rover ticket.

As a member I already save 50%. And 10% on beer!

 

[Llanigraham]

Well the Corris is pre-booking and they are reporting their passenger numbers are up.

 

[WAB]

I attended a talk by Paul Lewin (the F&WHR GM) and frankly, the spiralling costs, in particular staff and coal, but increasingley too materials and spare parts, are putting increasing pressure on the surplus and have been since before the pandemic. Whilst the management have perhaps been a little over-cautious, it is clear that the old ways were no longer working.

 

[30907]

As a member I already save 50%. And 10% on beer!

Not to mention your 3 free tickets a year

The advance booking discount is an incentive - and an upsell too, given that pay-on-the-day passengers don't always buy day rovers. Fortunately it's almost always worth while...

 

[John Luxton]

Well the Corris is pre-booking and they are reporting their passenger numbers are up.

I think the Corris set up probably lends itself to this model given that journeys have only ever been permitted from the Corris end - that for one remains a "joy ride" with no public transport pretentions for now.

I attended a talk by Paul Lewin (the F&WHR GM) and frankly, the spiralling costs, in particular staff and coal, but increasingley too materials and spare parts, are putting increasing pressure on the surplus and have been since before the pandemic. Whilst the management have perhaps been a little over-cautious, it is clear that the old ways were no longer working.

I think VERY over cautious.

Just before Covid much was made of redesigning Blaenau station to facilitate cross platform interchange. If they could be so optimistic 3-4 years ago surely the argument of problems pre-pandemic is somewhat false?

I do think there is a good case for running short line shuttles to Tanybwlch - but there should be at least two through Blaenau - Porthmadog trains on each operating day with say 50% of the seats bookable in advance. First and last train appear to be more appropriate with guaranteed connections with Conwy Valley Line.

 

[bramling]

Well the Corris is pre-booking and they are reporting their passenger numbers are up.

I’d say Corris, in its current form at least, is a special case, given that the journey is short, the shed tour (presumably that still happens?) is part of the experience, and the railway currently doesn’t actually go anywhere.

Passenger numbers may be up now, however two factors may change that. More and more people are going to revert to their previous practice of taking foreign holidays, and secondly budgets are now being squeezed.

Ultimately if costs aren’t stacking up then railways are going to have to find ways to be more efficient. Fewer but longer trains is one way, where practicable. If they want to keep all the booking at inflated prices then the experience will need to offer an equivalent amount of value. And if prices do need to rise, I’d rather places simply went back to the old way of doing things and charged more, so at least people can enjoy their day as opposed to being herded around like school children.

 

[paul1609]

I think VERY over cautious.

Just before Covid much was made of redesigning Blaenau station to facilitate cross platform interchange. If they could be so optimistic 3-4 years ago surely the argument of problems pre-pandemic is somewhat false?

I do think there is a good case for running short line shuttles to Tanybwlch - but there should be at least two through Blaenau - Porthmadog trains on each operating day with say 50% of the seats bookable in advance. First and last train appear to be more appropriate with guaranteed connections with Conwy Valley Line.

I think that the argument goes along the lines of that the decline began in the 2017 season but it wasn't apparent that it was a long term decline in surplus until the end of the 2019 season rather than short term cycles that have happened before. The railways trading activity during the pandemic was largely determined by government policy and support but with that having ended the coal and energy price rises plus uncertainty over the effect of inflation means there is no way that the railway can go back to the 2016 normal. the Ffestiniog and Paul were really the first to identify why this was happening.
Obviously every railways circumstances are different but I believe that the Ffestiniog is perceived as being the model to adopt and then to modify it to your own railways circumstances. Certainly my railway sees the advance booking model as the way to go.

 

[Bikeman78]

Think you'll find that all heritage railways are adapting to a new normal post pandemic because of changes in the viability of the product. The target for most now is at least 90% prebooked. How this is implemented varies from railway to railway but I'm afraid the financial reality is that most won't be returning to pre covid practices.

Some lines are doing rover tickets again. They'll be getting my custom. Any line that wants me to pay twice to do two round trips will get nothing from me.

 

[John Luxton]

Some lines are doing rover tickets again. They'll be getting my custom. Any line that wants me to pay twice to do two round trips will get nothing from me.

If enough vote with their feet it may be enough to drive the message home.
Llangollen are definitely doing rovers again.
I think we as enthusiasts should make every effort to support the "normal" railways and perhaps give the others a miss for a while.

As normality returns "joe public" is going to start grumbling if they turn up at a station and find they can't buy a ticket for a train that day.

Hopefully to be reflected in negative Trip Advisor reports as the season progresses and which in turn might lead some railways to reappraise this approach.

 

[xotGD]

Not to mention your 3 free tickets a year

In my mind that is what you are buying with the membership fee. The savings start to accrue for additional days on the railway. Plus the discount on the beer.

 

[bramling]

If enough vote with their feet it may be enough to drive the message home.
Llangollen are definitely doing rovers again.
I think we as enthusiasts should make every effort to support the "normal" railways and perhaps give the others a miss for a while.

As normality returns "joe public" is going to start grumbling if they turn up at a station and find they can't buy a ticket for a train that day.

Hopefully to be reflected in negative Trip Advisor reports as the season progresses and which in turn might lead some railways to reappraise this approach.

Yes I think we need to make a thing of leaving as many negative reviews as possible in respect of pre booking. Another aspect of Covid which needs a nudge to return to normal.

 

[John Luxton]

Yes I think we need to make a thing of leaving as many negative reviews as possible in respect of pre booking. Another aspect of Covid which needs a nudge to return to normal.

I am certainly up for that and of course praise for those lines that do not require it.

 

[STINT47]

At my two local railways the Great Central and Ecclesbourne Valley we dropped all restrictions long ago.

You can board at any station, buy the full range of tickets and travel as you please. The memories of operating a pre booked compartment on a set train and rapidly fading and I am very grateful for that.

I'm actually surprised yo find that other lines still have restrictions. I certainly will not be visiting any that do. Perhaps someone should tell them that all covid restrictions have ended and we need to get on with life again.

 

[Denis103]

The Battlefield line at Shackerstone is back to normal and i had a couple of nice round trips today with the Caledonian loco 419. Considering the SVR had their steam gala this weekend and the EVR had the diesel gala as well it was nice to see a few families there today. £13 for a day ticket is very good and the staff were very pleasant with a good cafe at shackerstone complete with a warming fire.
Certainly these smaller railways need our support.

One railway i will not attend this year is the NYMR which has decided to retain last years choice of ticketing i.e. travel between pickering and grosmont on the internal trips or do the whitby's but that does not allow for mix and match such as getting off a whitby and going through on a later train.

 

[peteb]

Steam gala this weekend at the Severn Valley Railway definitely has a pre-COVID feel, plenty of visitors, visiting locos etc and an additional visiting excursion train. Nice.

 

[John Luxton]

At my two local railways the Great Central and Ecclesbourne Valley we dropped all restrictions long ago.

You can board at any station, buy the full range of tickets and travel as you please. The memories of operating a pre booked compartment on a set train and rapidly fading and I am very grateful for that.

I'm actually surprised yo find that other lines still have restrictions. I certainly will not be visiting any that do. Perhaps someone should tell them that all covid restrictions have ended and we need to get on with life again.

I am off down to Cornwall and Devon for a few days and thought I would check out what is going on at Bodmin and Wenford. Their web site appears to indicate they are carrying on with pre-booking and getting people to join primarily at Bodmin General. One would think with a cross platform interchange at Bodmin Parkway they would give this up.

B&W is another line I will not be visiting.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I'm not sure why they can't do both, to be honest. That is, sell specific round trips as named railtours, take advance reservations and put headboards on the trains, but also have them as part of a timetable you can use in "expert mode" with a Rover or similar. The "big railway" manages to combine reserved and unreserved passengers without too much difficulty, and most of the difficulty there is relates to electronic reservation displays not working, something you'd not have on a preserved line.

 

[peteb]

I'm not sure why they can't do both, to be honest. That is, sell specific round trips as named railtours, take advance reservations and put headboards on the trains, but also have them as part of a timetable you can use in "expert mode" with a Rover or similar. The "big railway" manages to combine reserved and unreserved passengers without too much difficulty, and most of the difficulty there is relates to electronic reservation displays not working, something you'd not have on a preserved line.

Agree. It wouldn't be too difficult to reserve some compartment stock for pre booked parties as in COVID times and leave the rest for walk-ons or those with rovers.....?

 

[davetheguard]

The target for most now is at least 90% prebooked. How this is implemented varies from railway to railway but I'm afraid the financial reality is that most won't be returning to pre covid prac

Meanwhile the more traditional users, for example those who might want to combine a train ride with a rural walk, have a day out without being tied to places and times, or whatever, find themselves snubbed away.

It's good to hear on here that some heritage railways like the Great Central & KWVR have returned to welcoming ALL passengers.

Unfortunately, for this visitor at least, the new uncertainty about HOW you can visit a heritage railway -will they even want my business?- has meant that I've simply put the entire heritage rail sector to the back of my mind when planning days out. In short, no visits planned at all.

If I want to combine a train ride with a pub visit half way along the line and/or a walk between stations, it'll be the national rail system I'll use to do it. Much cheaper anyway!

Still very sad to see preserved railways turning trade away though.