Cross-City Electrification from Barnt Green to Bromsgrove

[Chris125]

Indeed, the bank itself is looking rather more complete (thanks to Thomas Stobbs for these)


66057 by Thomas Stobbs, on Flickr


66130 by Thomas Stobbs, on Flickr

 

[ABB125]

I thought banking had ended on the Lickey Incline, but it's good to see it happening still. Does anyone know how often it happens? Will there be an electric banker in the future?
Thanks

 

[deltic08]

I thought banking had ended on the Lickey Incline, but it's good to see it happening still. Does anyone know how often it happens? Will there be an electric banker in the future?
Thanks

Probably more a case of being safe on a bank now devoid of slip points. On a dry rail a 66 can pull this weight up the Lickey but may come to a stand on a greasy rail and not be able to restart causing delay. Banking also takes the weight off the buckeye couplings and drag boxes at the front of the train.
When the Plymouth-Glasgow/Edinburgh sleeper was operating, it loaded to 12 and was banked for safety reasons despite this load being within the capability of classes 45/47.
Over seven decades, I have been up the Lickey banked behind Jubilees, Patriots, Britannia's, even a Battle of Britain and behind diesel classes 35, 40, 42, 45, 47, 50, 52 and 55 with big loads all unbanked and without stalling. I once went up behind a 52 with 13 Mk1s on a charter from Gloucester to Aberystwith as far as Shrewsbury without the slightest slip.
The only time I have been on a train that stalled was an HST, with eight powered axles and only nine Mk3s.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Will there be an electric banker in the future?
Thanks

I'm not sure the Bromsgrove wiring will extend to the goods loop where the bankers lurk.

 

[lammergeier]

Not only that but the bankers tend to stand at Saltley when not required and use the Camp Hill lines to reach the bank, neither of which are or will be wired. The chances of an electric loco being routed via New St for banking duties are nil.

 

[EveningStar]

When the Plymouth-Glasgow/Edinburgh sleeper was operating, it loaded to 12 and was banked for safety reasons despite this load being within the capability of classes 45/47.

Remember during the late 1970s and early 1980s the sleeper loaded to 16 most days, hence the banking (if I really correctly ... am writing this at work and notes at home ... think a D455 timing load was the limit for Type 4s). On Fridays it ran in two parts and did not need banking.

 

[linuxlad7]

Indeed, the bank itself is looking rather more complete (thanks to Thomas Stobbs for these)


66057 by Thomas Stobbs, on Flickr


66130 by Thomas Stobbs, on Flickr

do these photos show both the up and down wires???
(would the system work with just an up wire Like a banker??)

 

[deltic08]

do these photos show both the up and down wires???
would the system work with just an up wire

No, as far as I can see, only the Up line is partially strung which happens to be coincidentally the line up the bank.
No to your second question. Regenerative braking needs the pan to be up and wrong line working may be needed at some point.

 

[linuxlad7]

No, as far as I can see, only the Up line is partially strung which happens to be coincidentally the line up the bank.
No to your second question. Regenerative braking needs the pan to be up and wrong line working may be needed at some point.

so whats the safety case if you dewire on the bank??Bob

 

[snowball]

so whats the safety case if you dewire on the bank??Bob

Use the friction brakes?

 

[AndrewE]

Remember during the late 1970s and early 1980s the sleeper loaded to 16 most days, hence the banking (if I really correctly ... am writing this at work and notes at home ... think a D455 timing load was the limit for Type 4s). On Fridays it ran in two parts and did not need banking.

I remember that the FO Edinburgh portion (Mk 1 seats at he rear) by itself was heavy enough to be banked, I went on it once for the thrash of the assisting cl 47 heard out of the open back window! I don't think the combined winter train was banked, which seemed odd to me, but in those days I think maybe half a dozen extra coaches were put on each portion on summer fridays.

 

[Harbornite]

Not only that but the bankers tend to stand at Saltley when not required and use the Camp Hill lines to reach the bank, neither of which are or will be wired. The chances of an electric loco being routed via New St for banking duties are nil.

You'd think that, but quite often on a sunday, the banker (albeit a class 66) will be routed from Bescot to Bromsgrove via New Street and Selly Oak.

 

[The Planner]

The use the banker at Bescot for shunting etc if required during the week as well.

 

[59CosG95]

You'd think that, but quite often on a sunday, the banker (albeit a class 66) will be routed from Bescot to Bromsgrove via New Street and Selly Oak.

Indeed they do, but it'll be too much of a pain for DB to change it to a 90 (or similar) on Sundays only just because the route's electrified throughout.
Besides, when and if the entire route from, say, Cardiff (via Glos)/Bristol gets electrified, AC freight locos are bound to be so powerful they'll only need banking in autumn/winter.
A UK variant of a Bombardier TRAXX (5.6MW power output, 300kN tractive effort) or Siemens Vectron (6.4MW, 300kN tractive effort) would have little to no trouble; they tackle similarly challenging grades in the Alps on a daily basis.

 

[Dixie]

Besides, when and if the entire route from, say, Cardiff (via Glos)/Bristol gets electrified ...

I'm 64 now. I'm not holding my breath as I think there is little or no chance that I'll every travel from Birmingham south to Gloucester in an EMU or see a 25KV AC loco pull a freight along that route in my lifetime, nice though the thought is.

 

[Tom Quinne]

I'd expect the bromsgrove wiring has been plugged into the current limits by a B&Q own brand extension lead to keep costs down, so a new substation/feeder point wasn't required.

A full fat electric loco taking power would probably black out most of south Birmingham !

Unless you juice up the Camp Hill line, past Saltey towards Derby and Nuneaton for the WCML amd various routes back towards Bescot there isn't much point changing freight over to AC traction.

 

[The Planner]

Indeed there is no extra feeder, comes off the existing.

 

[Old Hill Bank]

New Street Station and the surrounding area along with Cross City South are fed from Winson Green Feeder Station under normal arrangements. I see no reason why that would change.

 

[Techniquest]

I've been away from the scene for a good while, I take it this means we've still got a good few weeks/months to wait until the 323s start serving Bromsgrove? I haven't been up that way for a fair while now, no real need to these days after all. Once the Starships get extended I will have an excuse to go back...

 

[Chris125]

I was about to say that masts have yet to appear over the platforms at Bromsgrove and Barnt Green, however...


37601 by Thomas Stobbs, on Flickr

 

[Class172]

That must have been done during the past few days, as I don't recollect any masts when I passed through on Monday.

 

[alistairlees]

Remember during the late 1970s and early 1980s the sleeper loaded to 16 most days, hence the banking (if I really correctly ... am writing this at work and notes at home ... think a D455 timing load was the limit for Type 4s). On Fridays it ran in two parts and did not need banking.

I remember the sleeper (1S19) as fairly often being 16 - 8 each to Edinburgh and Glasgow C. Usually in the mid 80s this was a 45/1 with banking by 2 * 37s. But I've known the banker be another 45 or a 47. On Fridays (summer only) an additional non-sleeper service (1S23) ran to both Edinburgh and Glasgow C. This was also often a 45/1 and went straight up the bank (it was just behind 1S19 so there was no time for the banker(s) to get back). I can't remember the load, but probably about 10 to 12.

I have vague memories of a 45/1 on 1S19 going straight up the bank once, though I can't remember the details now.

 

[D1009]

I remember the sleeper (1S19) as fairly often being 16 - 8 each to Edinburgh and Glasgow C. Usually in the mid 80s this was a 45/1 with banking by 2 * 37s. But I've known the banker be another 45 or a 47. On Fridays (summer only) an additional non-sleeper service (1S23) ran to both Edinburgh and Glasgow C. This was also often a 45/1 and went straight up the bank (it was just behind 1S19 so there was no time for the banker(s) to get back). I can't remember the load, but probably about 10 to 12.

I have vague memories of a 45/1 on 1S19 going straight up the bank once, though I can't remember the details now.

My recollection was that when 1S23 ran, 1S19 was just Glasgow, and 1S23 was just Edinburgh, both with seated and sleeping cars.

 

[alistairlees]

My recollection was that when 1S23 ran, 1S19 was just Glasgow, and 1S23 was just Edinburgh, both with seated and sleeping cars.

1S19 was both seats and sleeping cars, and always went to both (and ran 7 days a week). 1S23 ran on Fridays and Saturdays, was only ever seats, and also went to both. At least in 1984 anyway.

 

[Old Hill Bank]

1S19 was booked 15 cars (eight for Glasgow and seven for Edinburgh) and into platform 5 at New Street via Selly Oak. the Diesel would detach at the 'A' end and go to Saltley and an 86 attached at the 'B' end of the platform. When the Mk3 sleepers were introduced it ran via the Camp Hill line and the loco change all happened at the 'B' end, this was due to the increased length of the train.

 

[Harbornite]

I was about to say that masts have yet to appear over the platforms at Bromsgrove and Barnt Green, however...

That leave Barnt Green (platforms 1 and 2) as the last section that hasn't seen any masts yet, although some of the piles are in place.

 

[linuxlad7]

That leave Barnt Green (platforms 1 and 2) as the last section that hasn't seen any masts yet, although some of the piles are in place.

so when do we get a down line rigged and start playing real trains?
( - the orange army and friends seem to be out for only half a night (usually Saturday?} a week.)

 

[59CosG95]

Some progress updates on Friday: 2 bases on P1 at Barnt Green (nearer the Brum end); two covered over sections to the south indicate that perhaps two more are due to go in. The wires have now almost reached the station on the southern end, so it may only be a case of getting Barnt Green complete before the Bromsgrove end is tied on. (see attached image below (IMG_6117) for an example of how the new installations are tied off; I'm not sure if this'll be a permanent tensioning mast or not)

There was also a pile in place on P2, opposite the third provisional place for a mast on P1; perhaps this may be a portal frame or a single track cantilevered mast. The other covered space and the two existing piles appear to suggest twin track cantilevers are to be installed.

Lastly, two headspan portals on the approach to P3/4 at the junction have been replaced with rigid portal frames; while the masts remain, all the wires on them have been removed bar one. I'm assuming these will be gone in a few possessions' time.

 

[WesternS]

From last night (Sat) on Barnt Green station... apologies for the quality, running to get the 23.08.

 

[59CosG95]

From last night (Sat) on Barnt Green station... apologies for the quality, running to get the 23.08.View attachment 40337 View attachment 40338 View attachment 40339 View attachment 40340

Ahh, nice set of shots there given the circs! Think there's just one more mast at the country end of P1/2 (well, 1 TTC or 2 STCs) left to go in. AFAIK the Down line from Blackwell to Bromsgrove still needs doing, and given the weather in B'ham/Worcs at the minute it may take a while to get up...