Brussels ICE Services

[Bungle965]

After being offloaded of a ICE International service at Brussels Nord I had a quick glance at the services back to Germany today.
To my surprise I found that all services were sold out of seats in Standard class with only seats left remaining in 1st. (see attached photo)
Perhaps this is due to the engineering works taking place, however would it not be possible to strengthen the capacity of these services (have they ever been strengthen into two units before?).
Sam

 

[superjohn]

These services utilise the class 406 multi voltage ICE units which are very tightly diagrammed with little spare capacity. To double up on one service would almost certainly mean cancelling another. It is already common to have passengers swap between units at Aachen to confine a multi voltage unit within Belgium during times of low availability.

They are very popular at nearly all times. I think this is due to the availability of walk up fares without reservations and acceptance of Interrail and Eurail tickets, unlike the competing Thalys service.

A regional express service from Köln to Brussels (or at least Liege) would seem a very good idea. I don’t know if it is on the cards though. The recently introduced cross border ‚local‘ service to Arnhem has certainly been very well used.

 

[Bungle965]

These services utilise the class 406 multi voltage ICE units which are very tightly diagrammed with little spare capacity.

Especially when they appear to breakdown frequently! They seem relatively notorious for doing that on International services to Belgium.

The recently introduced cross border ‚local‘ service to Arnhem has certainly been very well used.

My outward journey I took via Welkenraedt & crossing the border to Aachen that way, unfortunately that service didn't seem to be as well populated I counted around 6 people on the 2 car unit.
Cheers for the info.
Sam

 

[Bletchleyite]

Are they compulsory reservation? Didn't think they were.

 

[Bungle965]

Are they compulsory reservation? Didn't think they were.

Nope.

 

[30907]

Especially when they appear to breakdown frequently! They seem relatively notorious for doing that on International services to Belgium.


My outward journey I took via Welkenraedt & crossing the border to Aachen that way, unfortunately that service didn't seem to be as well populated I counted around 6 people on the 2 car unit.
Cheers for the info.
Sam

There is a real availability problem with the 406s. On a recent journey there was a unit swap at Frankfurt, the unit we travelled in had come in from Paris and we had to swap units at Dueren (not Aachen BTW) - this is actually very easy provided both units are the same way round, and there was enough slack in the schedule for us to be early into Brussels.

Are they compulsory reservation? Didn't think they were.

No they aren't (I assume you mean the ICEs), and I don't see how they could refuse to issue a flexpreis ticket, but DB have been known to call police to overcrowded trains and it would be the unreserved standing passengers who were made to leave. What happens in BE I don't know, and it's the first time I've seen the struck-through symbol.

On the original point - a fair number of the Brussels ICEs run coupled to a second unit south of Koeln.

 

[tasky]

The service frequency was already increased in April this year, by adding a train at 12.25 and filling the gap around lunchtime. There was also an additional Sunday service over the summer months but I'm not sure whether it continues

https://www.railjournal.com/passenger/high-speed/frankfurt-brussels-ice-services-stepped-up/

An additional lunchtime ICE departure has increased the number of daily services to seven in each direction.

The additional daily service departs from Brussels South at 12.25, with intermediate stops at Liège Guillemins, Aachen Main Station, Cologne Main Station, Cologne-Bonn Airport and Frankfurt Airport. The journey time is 3h 6min.

The corresponding service from Germany will depart from Frankfurt Main Station at 12.29.

From April 28 there will also be an additional Sunday-only service departing from Frankfurt Main Station at 20.16 and Brussels South at 20.25. This service will operate until November.

As a fairly regular user of the line I'd agree that they could really use more capacity, the services are always very heavily loaded. I think this is for the reasons other people mention, and also that essentially every international rail passenger going from the UK to Germany goes this way as well. It's very common to hear British accents on these trains in my experience.

Other people have mentioned that the multi-voltage units are scarce on the ground and this also means that reliability suffers – it's extremely common for services to be delayed or even cancelled altogether.

I can't find it now but I saw a few months ago that SNCF had ordered a bunch of trains to run services into Germany, which I believe were going to take over services currently operated by ICE sets. I thought that the time that this might be good for the Brussels ICE because it would mean more available units – I don't know whether this is the case, perhaps someone could shed some light?

 

[Bletchleyite]

Nope.

Surprised the site says "only first class tickets available" then, as that's misrepresentation.

 

[Mag_seven]

There is a real availability problem with the 406s.

I never use these units now (or the overpriced Thalys service for that matter) if I arrive in Brussels on Eurostar - I just get a local service to the border with Germany then a normal DB service from there.

 

[tasky]

I never use these units now (or the overpriced Thalys service for that matter) if I arrive in Brussels on Eurostar - I just get a local service to the border with Germany then a normal DB service from there.

Does this usually require a change at Liege?

 

[duesselmartin]

Does this usually require a change at Liege?

Brussels to Waelkenread and change for Aachen.

 

[Bungle965]

Brussels to Waelkenread and change for Aachen.

Prepare for some rather antique rolling stock from Waelkenread to Aachen, it's an interesting experience it has to be said.
I'd also make notice of some of the dubious connections that DB Planner encourages, the 3 minutes it gave me would have been cutting it fine! I have no idea if they hold the connection if the train from Brussels is late or not.
Sam

 

[U-Bahnfreund]

A regional express service from Köln to Brussels (or at least Liege) would seem a very good idea. I don’t know if it is on the cards though. The recently introduced cross border ‚local‘ service to Arnhem has certainly been very well used.

There have been lengthy discussions about extending either the Belgian IC 01 (Oostende - Eupen) or IC 12 (Kortrijk - Welkenraedt) to Cologne via Aachen, although there are tradeoffs with both: IC 01 would miss Eupen (at least before Eupen - Raeren - Stolberg reopens), which the quite powerful German-speaking community there doesn't want and IC 12 doesn't run on weekends and I think also uses, or will soon use, double-deck trains that won't fit in Germany. The "Deutschland-Takt 2030" plan does feature an IC/RE Cologne - Aachen - Belgium and so does the NVR Regional Transport Strategy, but of course paper can say much...

No they aren't (I assume you mean the ICEs), and I don't see how they could refuse to issue a flexpreis ticket, but DB have been known to call police to overcrowded trains and it would be the unreserved standing passengers who were made to leave.

DB doesn't and I think can't refuse to sell a Flexpreis, but online tools (Navigator & website) and TVMs won't sell any tickets for sold-out trains. Work around usually is buying a Flexpreis for any other journey and just using it for the original one, since the attached journey plan of course isn't compulsory. If all trains are out of reservations that might be tricky though...

 

[duesselmartin]

You can set the connecting time on the App . I usually use a minimum of 15 minutes.

 

[tasky]

Prepare for some rather antique rolling stock from Waelkenread to Aachen, it's an interesting experience it has to be said.
I'd also make notice of some of the dubious connections that DB Planner encourages, the 3 minutes it gave me would have been cutting it fine! I have no idea if they hold the connection if the train from Brussels is late or not.
Sam

There are quite a lot of SNCB services that are based on cross platform interchanges, usually the SNCB app and website will tell you 'this connection will be guaranteed if the delay is less than x minutes' – though I'm not sure about the Aachen service because of the cross-border nature

Also unlike DB, in my experience SNCB tends to be quite punctual – occasionally as anywhere you get a complete collapse from something going wrong, but it's generally pretty reliable

 

[Bletchleyite]

DB doesn't and I think can't refuse to sell a Flexpreis, but online tools (Navigator & website) and TVMs won't sell any tickets for sold-out trains. Work around usually is buying a Flexpreis for any other journey and just using it for the original one, since the attached journey plan of course isn't compulsory. If all trains are out of reservations that might be tricky though...

That's a bit bizarre. Compulsory reservation by stealth? Either way I'd suggest that a statement of "only First Class tickets available" when the Flexpreis can be sold in any volume (and unless these trains are somehow different, reservation is optional even when purchasing against a specific train?) is at best misrepresentation and at worst outright fraud, though I don't know if German law differs from UK law on that kind of matter.

 

[tynesider]

I'm a semi-regular user of the ICE service between Brussels and Cologne, and have had to do the Duren set swap on a number of occasions. It's relatively painless and as always been a cross-platform, same-orientation swap. However I've always arrived about 15 minutes late into Cologne because of it (never swapped when travelling Westbound).

For the novelty factor earlier this year I used the SNCB /DB local services changing at Welkenraedt and Aachen. It's obviously notably slower but I did particularly enjoy the scenery east of Liege - Something I'd never really appreciated from the High Speed Line. It's a journey I'll likely make again if I'm not in a hurry.

 

[ThisIsSurbiton]

I'm a semi-regular user of the ICE service between Brussels and Cologne, and have had to do the Duren set swap on a number of occasions. It's relatively painless and as always been a cross-platform, same-orientation swap. However I've always arrived about 15 minutes late into Cologne because of it (never swapped when travelling Westbound).

Last time it happened to me we were going west, and our train had decided it couldn't enter Belgium. Unfortunately the sets were opposite ways round and it was carnage on the platform! Maybe I'll try the local train next time. It seems to me that Brussels - Cologne (or at least Aachen) should really be hourly.

 

[superalbs]

It seems to me that Brussels - Cologne (or at least Aachen) should really be hourly.

Well, it is! The only problem being that every other hour is an annoying Thalys TGV set, instead of the more accessible DB ICE.

I've heard a lot about Thalys having poor customer service, but never bothered to see what it's all about because they are just too inconvenient and expensive to use. I have no idea why they're allowed to waste the hourly slot with that train, to be honest...

 

[Bletchleyite]

I've heard a lot about Thalys having poor customer service, but never bothered to see what it's all about because they are just too inconvenient and expensive to use. I have no idea why they're allowed to waste the hourly slot with that train, to be honest...

It's a TGV, it's as rubbish as all TGVs are, and comes with the stereotypical quality of service that originates from the country where you get TGVs from.

I still find it a pity that the "classic" D-Zug has gone - that was most useful.

 

[superalbs]

It may be worth remembering that DB currently has 30x 186mph units out for tender, so maybe some of this new fleet will be able to bolster the offering on this route... I seem to recall delivery was from 2021?

 

[ainsworth74]

It may be worth remembering that DB currently has 30x 186mph units out for tender, so maybe some of this new fleet will be able to bolster the offering on this route... I seem to recall delivery was from 2021?

I think I've only ever used it once when it would be considered anything other than full and standing so you'd have to think that DB would want to strengthen it not only to provide a more comfortable journey but so that they can sell more tickets!

 

[duesselmartin]

It may be worth remembering that DB currently has 30x 186mph units out for tender, so maybe some of this new fleet will be able to bolster the offering on this route... I seem to recall delivery was from 2021?

I believe they are single voltage only.

I never had difficulty with the flex price aus standing or sitting in the floor is generallyas Long ad it doesnt get too extreme.
Yes trains are full but many in Sparpreis making it less profitable.
What impact does the London Spezial difficulty make in loadings.

As for Thalys, in my case its direct and more reliable and is therefore my preference, even in combination with Eurostar, when booked over b-europe.

 

[Starmill]

Interestingly, a Second Class Flexpreis Europe Single from Koln to Bruxelles is €61 - £51.60 on today's Mastercard converter. For a journey of almost 140 miles and completed in less than 2 hours on top-tier express trains, this is rather low. Bear in mind that this includes Koln City Ticket, and something called 'Brussels Zone' which I imagine means a connection to Brussels Central Station is included in the price? There is a €4,50 charge to reserve a second class seat however which of course wouldn't apply in the UK.

An awful lot cheaper than equivalent express trains in the UK, and seems slightly cheaper than most other domestic Flexpreis rates too. London Zone 1 to Bristol with Plusbus for example is £116 at the same terms and conditions.

The Flexpreis Europe rate without ICE trains, generally changing at Aachen and Walkenradt, is €43,30, or £37.40. I guess that, with any relevant discount, that is the rate Bungle965 had?

 

[ainsworth74]

Yes trains are full but many in Sparpreis making it less profitable.

Is it? If the Sparpreis wasn't available would everyone switch to Flixpreis or would they just travel by a different mode?

 

[duesselmartin]

Is it? If the Sparpreis wasn't available would everyone switch to Flixpreis or would they just travel by a different mode?

The cost of running the train, track access charges ect could mean it might bei more economical not to run If ticket revenue does not reach a certain treshhold.
City Night Line trains were füll but DB did not consider them worth it ( unlike ÖBB)

 

[Aictos]

It's a TGV, it's as rubbish as all TGVs are, and comes with the stereotypical quality of service that originates from the country where you get TGVs from.

I still find it a pity that the "classic" D-Zug has gone - that was most useful.

I’m aware you have rose tinted specs on with your views of TGVs but they’re not that bad.

I’ve used the TGVs both double deckers and single deckers and I fail to see a single issue with them.

As to the standard of service, you’re partly right if you’ve used Gard du Est in Paris but I’ve travelled across France and I haven’t encountered the rudeness and arrogance of this Paris station anyway else.

 

[tasky]

Well, it is! The only problem being that every other hour is an annoying Thalys TGV set, instead of the more accessible DB ICE.

I've heard a lot about Thalys having poor customer service, but never bothered to see what it's all about because they are just too inconvenient and expensive to use. I have no idea why they're allowed to waste the hourly slot with that train, to be honest...

I'm not disagreeing with you, but to unpack why Thalys ends up more expensive – it can be quite reasonable if booked far in advance, but the pricing is more UK-style very cheap advances and then very expensive closer to the time rather than DB's flatter pricing. The other reason it ends up more expensive is if you're going beyond a destination served by Thalys because you have to buy a DB ticket as well, whereas with ICE you're already in the DB ecosystem.

Also the Thalys doesn't go as far as Frankfurt, while the ICE does, which means for some connections to e.g. Bavaria it is no good

 

[davetheguard]

There have been lengthy discussions about extending either the Belgian IC 01 (Oostende - Eupen) or IC 12 (Kortrijk - Welkenraedt) to Cologne via Aachen, although there are tradeoffs with both: IC 01 would miss Eupen (at least before Eupen - Raeren - Stolberg reopens), which the quite powerful German-speaking community there doesn't want and IC 12 doesn't run on weekends and I think also uses, or will soon use, double-deck trains that won't fit in Germany. The "Deutschland-Takt 2030" plan does feature an IC/RE Cologne - Aachen - Belgium and so does the NVR Regional Transport Strategy, but of course paper can say much...



DB doesn't and I think can't refuse to sell a Flexpreis, but online tools (Navigator & website) and TVMs won't sell any tickets for sold-out trains. Work around usually is buying a Flexpreis for any other journey and just using it for the original one, since the attached journey plan of course isn't compulsory. If all trains are out of reservations that might be tricky though...

Interesting, the first I've heard of Eupen - Raeren - Stolberg reopening. Is it funded or just a proposal? When would it reopen?

By the way, I do miss the through Oostende - Brussel - Koeln Inter City trains. So much better - if slower - than the current confusing mix of Thalys & ICE's with no common ticketing.

 

[radamfi]

and something called 'Brussels Zone' which I imagine means a connection to Brussels Central Station is included in the price?

"Zone Brussel/Bruxelles" includes the following stations

http://www.belgianrail.be/~/media/6651511087ff4e3fbbf0f8c8f1e29cc3.pdf

Arcaden, Bockstael, Bosvoorde, Boondaal, Bordet, Brussel-Centraal, Brussel-Congres, Brussel Kapellekerk, Brussel-Luxemburg, Brussel-Noord, Brussel-Schuman, Brussel-West, Brussel-Zuid, Delta, Diesdelle, Etterbeek, Evere, Haren, Haren-Zuid, Jette, Meiser, Merode, Moensberg, Mouterij, Schaarbeek, Simonis, St.-Agatha-Berchem, St-Job, Thurn en Taxis, Ukkel-Kalevoet, Ukkel-Stalle, Vorst-Oost, Vorst-Zuid, Watermaal

http://www.belgianrail.be/~/media/d9fb934356a444cb81e1f6af3efa6405.pdf

Arcades, Berchem-Ste-Agathe, Bockstael, Boitsfort, Boondael, Bordet, Bruxelles-Central, Bruxelles-Chapelle, Bruxelles-Congrès, Bruxelles-Luxembourg, Bruxelles-Midi, Bruxelles-Nord, Bruxelles-Ouest, Bruxelles-Schuman, Delta, Etterbeek, Evere, Forest-Est, Forest-Midi, Germoir, Haren, Haren-Sud, Jette, Meiser, Mérode, Moensberg, Schaerbeek, Simonis, St-Job, Tour et Taxis, Uccle-Calevoet, Uccle-Stalle, Vivier d’Oie, Watermael