Bus deroofed in Glasgow, three in hospital

[randyrippley]

Three in hospital after bus roof cut off in bridge crash​

Ten in hospital after bus roof cut off in Glasgow bridge crash

A number of other people were treated at the scene of the smash in Glasgow's south side.

www.bbc.co.uk

plenty of warning signs

However looks like it got under one bridge before hitting the second. Maybe the first bridge should have shown the tighter restrictions for the second?




However

 

[computerSaysNo]

Maybe the first bridge should have shown the tighter restrictions for the second?

This is what I was thinking too.

I don't know the area; are there any road junctions between the higher and lower bridges where high vehicles would be likely to leave and therefore not try to go under the lower bridge? If not then I'd have thought both bridges should be signed as the lower height.

 

[WibbleWobble]

However looks like it got under one bridge before hitting the second. Maybe the first bridge should have shown the tighter restrictions for the second?

No, as there is a road to the left of the picture, that vehicles can turn into - so a 14' vehicle can pass under the first bridge then immediately turn left.

Also, there are signs on the approaches to the junction before the 15' 3" bridge that warn of the 12' 6" restriction. The bus shouldn't have passed those signs on two counts, given it is 2.5 metres wide!

 

[jammy36]

No, as there is a road to the left of the picture, that vehicles can turn into - so a 14' vehicle can pass under the first bridge then immediately turn left.

Also, there are signs on the approaches to the junction before the 15' 3" bridge that warn of the 12' 6" restriction. The bus shouldn't have passed those signs on two counts, given it is 2.5 metres wide!

Yes, I don't think there's much more that could be done signage wise in this instance. The difference in the approach signage between the first bridge and second bridge alone should trigger any professional driver's attention. As well as the wall of yellow signage, there is also a flashing matrix sign directing overheight vehicles to turn left before the second bridge.

Plus as you note - even ignoring the height aspect - most modern buses are over the width restriction too.

 

[Mak1981]

Every single running board states clearly in bold to never use cook street under any circumstances

 

[Snow1964]

Are there any buses that are only 2.2m wide (even slim single deckers are usually nearer 2.3 wide).

If it had been London would have been huge steel bollards enforcing the width restriction too, so side would have been off.

 

[PaulMc7]

No, as there is a road to the left of the picture, that vehicles can turn into - so a 14' vehicle can pass under the first bridge then immediately turn left.

Also, there are signs on the approaches to the junction before the 15' 3" bridge that warn of the 12' 6" restriction. The bus shouldn't have passed those signs on two counts, given it is 2.5 metres wide!

It's definitely driver error but it's definitely something that shows just how dangerous having 2 bridges that are very different heights this close together actually is. It isn't the first vehicle to hit that bridge and it won't be the last either. The other issue is having massive diversions due to the race for life meaning that the service that the bus was on was somewhere it's usually a bit away from.

Someone on the First Glasgow thread mentioned which vehicle it was and the 6 which is the service it was operating as normally goes nowhere near where the incident took place. A lot of drivers seemed to be quite unsure of the diversions too and which route to take going by comments online from passengers on different services and from my own experience where the driver coming onto my bus was told during a changeover on route.

 

[jagardner1984]

Would also be quite interested to know what speed it would have to be going at to do that much damage ? Cook Street at that section is generally a low speed road (although the boy racers to tend to accelerate post bridge to get to the red traffic lights at the M8 a bit faster).

 

[alxndr]

For those who don't know the area here is the google maps link to the location: https://goo.gl/maps/Z5eV9YFLUDcxTopKA

 

[jagardner1984]

For those who don't know the area here is the google maps link to the location: https://goo.gl/maps/Z5eV9YFLUDcxTopKA

And for those who don't know, as much as this might sound illogical, when you are driving towards it (in my 4ft high city car) it's the kind of bridge that looks really low (due to the high buildings each side and the dark entry point (even in daylight) and makes you think "ooft that is going to be tight" (even though you have about 8ft of clearance above it ! )

So how you would drive towards this in a bus and not have a similar perception is rather beyond me !

 

[alxndr]

And for those who don't know, as much as this might sound illogical, when you are driving towards it (in my 4ft high city car) it's the kind of bridge that looks really low (due to the high buildings each side and the dark entry point (even in daylight) and makes you think "ooft that is going to be tight" (even though you have about 8ft of clearance above it ! )

So how you would drive towards this in a bus and not have a similar perception is rather beyond me !

Agreed. The first time I drove through it was in a van, and I knew it would fit as I'd been in the same van while other people were driving, but it felt tight. I drive through it in a van on a regular basis, and it still feels tight even if I'm in my small car.

When I heard about a bus having hit a bridge I didn't even consider this one as it's so patently obvious that you shouldn't try to get a bus through there.

 

[Falcon1200]

Maybe the first bridge should have shown the tighter restrictions for the second?

There is a lot of signage at the bridge - As per your photo?!!

Cook Street bridge on the Shields Junction route has been struck for years, but this is the first time I have ever heard of a bus being involved, rather than a lorry.

 

[route101]

My take on this particularly low bridge strike on cook street?

Given that most if not all Caledonia Depot drivers are particularly aware of this bridge, Scotstoun drivers may not know quite so well.

Drivers error for sure, Cook Street does NOT warn for a low bridge on ticketed due to its close proximity to Eglinton St.

I recall when the system first was introduced even the 13.6ft low bridge at springboig on Gartocher Rd on the 60 route was flashing warnings for drivers even those those bridge is some way away from the actual road the 60 used.

Any other bridge as well and the system might not show if the ticketers GPS is down, which can happen occasionally.

Yes, the 6 is all Scotstoun operated now. I am wondering what service was diverted that way.

 

[Taunton]

I remember this bridge wrecking double deckers in the 1970s. It was always a diversion, a special excursion, etc

Every single running board states clearly in bold to never use cook street under any circumstances

That's all very well until presented with a diversion away from any normal route and you don't know where Cook Street even is.

When you get a unique issue you can attribute it to the employee. When it happens again and again, with injuries each time, that then transfers to the overall organisation's safety procedures for not having come up with a way to prevent it.

 

[PaulMc7]

Yes, the 6 is all Scotstoun operated now. I am wondering what service was diverted that way.

The 7 was also diverted like the 6 along Cumberland Street, Eglinton Street, Nelson Street, Tradeston Street, Cook Street and then onto the Kingston Bridge. The likes of the 3, 38s and 57/57A were also diverted via the Kingston Bridge today too.

 

[randyrippley]

There is a lot of signage at the bridge - As per your photo?!!

Cook Street bridge on the Shields Junction route has been struck for years, but this is the first time I have ever heard of a bus being involved, rather than a lorry.

not my photo - off the BBC

 

[AndyPJG]

Now being reported as ten hospitalized.

BBC News

Ten in hospital after bus roof cut off in Glasgow bridge crash

Ten people have been taken to hospital after a double-decker bus crashed into a bridge and had its roof torn off.

The crash happened in Cook Street in Glasgow, near the O2 venue, at 11.35.

The injured people were taken to the Queen Elizabeth University Hospital.

A Scottish Fire and Rescue Service spokesperson said: "A number of additional casualties have been treated at the scene but do not require to be taken to hospital."

 

[Spsf3232]

I think today's diversions probably haven't helped with buses diverted via Kingston Bridge. Just highlights how things can go so wrong quickly and hopefully First can look at the entire process that led to the incident and use it to better train other drivers so it doesn't happen again

 

[MadCommuter]

I think there's a possible thought process about passing under the first bridge safely, so surely the second one will be fine too?

 

[PaulMc7]

I think there's a possible thought process about passing under the first bridge safely, so surely the second one will be fine too?

It'll definitely be a possible case of this due to the fact that the bridges are so close together. Whenever there is an incident involving a bridge it tends to be this one. I will say though, it's far less common now than it's ever been obviously due to the updates in technology and professional drivers being held to a very high standard by their workplace.

 

[PG]

I remember this bridge wrecking double deckers in the 1970s. It was always a diversion, a special excursion, etc



That's all very well until presented with a diversion away from any normal route and you don't know where Cook Street even is.

When you get a unique issue you can attribute it to the employee. When it happens again and again, with injuries each time, that then transfers to the overall organisation's safety procedures for not having come up with a way to prevent it.

Reminds me of a recent post by @DunsBus, albeit a different set of bridges in Glasgow.

Indeed and this was how the West Street accident happened in 1994.

The driver, who had taken a group of Girl Guides and their leaders from Drumchapel to Ayrshire for the day but was unsure of the route back to Drumchapel on returning to Glasgow. One of the leaders decided to lead the way in her car and took a short cut via West Street.
Those familiar with that area will know that outside the West Street Subway station there is a pair of bridges, one lower than the other, and the bus got under the first bridge before hitting the second.

As I recall, its driver was subsequently convicted but escaped a ban.

Partly because of this accident, as the West Street bridges were notorious for being struck, the road under them was closed off a few years later.

Perhaps the same remedy is required?

 

[Bletchleyite]

One would think it would be possible to fit an automatic warning system on high vehicles these days.

There is a lot of signage at the bridge - As per your photo?!!

Cook Street bridge on the Shields Junction route has been struck for years, but this is the first time I have ever heard of a bus being involved, rather than a lorry.

I suspect some of these cases are where a driver forgets they have a decker. If that is the case no number of flashing yellow warning signs will make any difference.

 

[PG]

One would think it would be possible to fit an automatic warning system on high vehicles these days

A search for, overheight vehicle warning, results in several manufacturers offering an infrastructure mounted solution rather than a vehicle mounted one. This points towards operators reluctance to fund it so road authorities have to instead. All boils down to money!

 

[Taunton]

I remember this bridge wrecking double deckers in the 1970s. It was always a diversion, a special excursion, etc

A quick search shows buses were also wrecked here, among others, in both 2009 and 2010. Here's one:

Glasgow bridge strike rips bus roof off

A double-decker bus crashes into a rail bridge in the south side of Glasgow ripping off its roof.

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[Transco]

The ticket machines on First Buses do have a low bridge warning system. When receiving one, the driver is meant to stop and phone control even if they know it’s a false positive. So either the system failed here or the driver ignored it.

 

[richw]

The ticket machines on First Buses do have a low bridge warning system. When receiving one, the driver is meant to stop and phone control even if they know it’s a false positive. So either the system failed here or the driver ignored it.

The GPS wanders a lot. Used to get loads of false alerts, which in my mind means if it can think I’m near a low bridge when I’m nowhere near it can also be in the wrong location if near a low bridge and think you’re somewhere else.
Also a few low bridges where a route passes nearby and say the bridge is near a junction the low bridge system has to be removed for that bridge to avoid alerts on the nearby road where you are meant to be. I think it goes off if within xxx yards.

 

[jagardner1984]

The GPS wanders a lot. Used to get loads of false alerts, which in my mind means if it can think I’m near a low bridge when I’m nowhere near it can also be in the wrong location if near a low bridge and think you’re somewhere else.
Also a few low bridges where a route passes nearby and say the bridge is near a junction the low bridge system has to be removed for that bridge to avoid alerts on the nearby road where you are meant to be. I think it goes off if within xxx yards.

There was reference to exactly your final point because of the number of services going down Eglinton Street which are completely safe from this hazard, but barely 100 yards away.

 

[Soundwave]

 

The ticket machines on First Buses do have a low bridge warning system. When receiving one, the driver is meant to stop and phone control even if they know it’s a false positive. So either the system failed here or the driver ignored it.

It just becomes noise if you constantly do a route where you don't pass under a low bridge, but it goes off because you are close to one.

I've been a passenger on a bus where it goes off on a certain stretch of road and the service doesn't go under a low bridge. However, there was one occasion where the driver made the wrong turn and were literally 10 meters from being deroofed as somebody shouted to the driver....over the alarm.

So the chances of you heeding it when you need to is reduced.

 

[jagardner1984]

 

It just becomes noise if you constantly do a route where you don't pass under a low bridge, but it goes off because you are close to one.

So the chances of you heeding it when you need to is reduced.

Reminds me of a tale of a budget hotel which had a faulty alarm system and had evacuated repeatedly through the night.

People were hurt (thankfully not fatally) when they assumed another alarm later in the night was another false alert, when in fact there was a real fire in the building. Warnings have to be concise and accurate to be effective in these circumstances.

 

[Bill57p9]

A search for, overheight vehicle warning, results in several manufacturers offering an infrastructure mounted solution rather than a vehicle mounted one. This points towards operators reluctance to fund it so road authorities have to instead. All boils down to money!

I have seen several infrastructure solutions, ranging from low tech (hanging chains) to full blown height detection with flashing signs.

Later posts suggest First Bus have at least made some attempt at a vehicle based solution but with significant shortcomings (false alarms = drivers ignore).

In terms of money, if operators insurers were pursued for all costs in dealing with an incident like this (police, roads department, railway, passengers) then the business priority might just change - especially as large operators such as First usually underwrite themselves, so it's a straight hit on their bottom line.