Bus Displays - real time departures (on bus itself)

[Robertj21a]

Not according to one driver I speak to, was told off for doing exactly that, that was even arriving at the terminus.

Yet for most routes of I am aware of locally there is hardly any "layover" time its as soon as you arrive, turn round and off again within a few minutes.

I wasn't discussing what drivers understand, I was describing the law. Do you know much about the legalities affecting all bus operation in the UK?

 

[kez19]

I wasn't discussing what drivers understand, I was describing the law. Do you know much about the legalities affecting all bus operation in the UK?

What’s the law that must be followed? As I don’t hence what I said was just opinion

 

[markymark2000]

The LAW states 1 min early since not all clocks show the same time so similar to the speed limit leeway, it's there as a regulatory thing incase the traffic commissioner inspectors or the operators times are slightly off.
Operators however state no running early because it's not good for passenger experience and if the bus leaves a minute early and the inspectors watch is off, that would show 2 minutes early.

 

[RT4038]

I wasn't discussing what drivers understand, I was describing the law. Do you know much about the legalities affecting all bus operation in the UK?

I think you are being a little unfair to the OP. I don't think there is anything in 'the law' regarding 1 minute early and 5 minutes late. This is contained in a Traffic Commissioners practice document concerning the monitoring of bus service punctuality, covering 95% of the scheduled journeys monitored. [e.g. If, over a monitoring period, no trips were late and under 5% ran 5 minutes early then the service would be considered punctual.]. Early departure is not 'illegal' per se. It may well be against company policy however!

Concerning the early running, I read the OP's comment referring to company displeasure of early arrival at the terminal stop (presumably with the penultimate timing point having been left on time). No doubt there will be some places on the network where stand or layover space is at a premium, and the company does not want more vehicles there than are scheduled. Rather than identifying those places specifically, a company may have a blanket rule of 'no early arrivals'.

 

[Boo_]

Buses can run one Minute earlier and five minutes later from that point and it only the next timing point that needs to be reported. so a bus can wait at a stop before timing point.

 

[kez19]

The LAW states 1 min early since not all clocks show the same time so similar to the speed limit leeway, it's there as a regulatory thing incase the traffic commissioner inspectors or the operators times are slightly off.
Operators however state no running early because it's not good for passenger experience and if the bus leaves a minute early and the inspectors watch is off, that would show 2 minutes early.

Can I ask this?

So say a bus turns up at least a minute and a half early at terminus the driver can still get penalised (or bus company?), in my mind I would rather at least the bus arrives early at say terminus early so it leaves on time, than to be into a journey as its too early at a certain bus stop to wait a few minutes to kill time?

I don't know anything in terms of law(s) or what bus drivers/companies must follow in regards to timings but for me if I was meant to compare my bus journey of today to say 20-30 years ago - the journey isn't exactly non-stop either!

 

[markymark2000]

Can I ask this?

So say a bus turns up at least a minute and a half early at terminus the driver can still get penalised (or bus company?), in my mind I would rather at least the bus arrives early at say terminus early so it leaves on time, than to be into a journey as its too early at a certain bus stop to wait a few minutes to kill time?

I don't know anything in terms of law(s) or what bus drivers/companies must follow in regards to timings but for me if I was meant to compare my bus journey of today to say 20-30 years ago - the journey isn't exactly non-stop either!

You can arrive as early as you want at a timing point, as long as you don't leave early.

Anyway, this is way off topic.




I think the departure times on the displays is good but operators need to be very careful that vital information isn't missed off (as others have said). On longer distance services with key intermediate points, I think it's daft as then people end up having to ask if a service goes to these places. If it's a local circular though and the vast majority of users know where the bus goes, I think it's good innovation to help reduce the amount of people running for buses and show people if they have time to nip to the shop for supplies etc.
I can see this causing some upset with drivers though as I know at least at my local bus station, some drivers jump off and go to the toilet (leaving the ticket machine logged in and the master switch on) and don't return until the same time the bus is due. This could cause some huffing, puffing and tutting against the driver as they return as it is then more visible that the bus has departed late.
In short, I can support it on local services where the majority of passengers know where the bus runs (Ie a town circular) but for interurban services, it could cause some issues with 'via' points being lost so major points are missed off the destination board.

 

[kez19]

You can arrive as early as you want at a timing point, as long as you don't leave early.

Anyway, this is way off topic.




I think the departure times on the displays is good but operators need to be very careful that vital information isn't missed off (as others have said). On longer distance services with key intermediate points, I think it's daft as then people end up having to ask if a service goes to these places. If it's a local circular though and the vast majority of users know where the bus goes, I think it's good innovation to help reduce the amount of people running for buses and show people if they have time to nip to the shop for supplies etc.
I can see this causing some upset with drivers though as I know at least at my local bus station, some drivers jump off and go to the toilet (leaving the ticket machine logged in and the master switch on) and don't return until the same time the bus is due. This could cause some huffing, puffing and tutting against the driver as they return as it is then more visible that the bus has departed late.
In short, I can support it on local services where the majority of passengers know where the bus runs (Ie a town circular) but for interurban services, it could cause some issues with 'via' points being lost so major points are missed off the destination board.

I understand what you say but whats the point in arriving early at a timing point so you don't leave early?

As with the displays I kinda agree if it works fine but at same time being cautious with it.

DSC_1660

DSC_1660 - 8806 - ND70 AEX - Yutong E10 - Go North East (Voltra - 53/54) and 8802 - ND70 AET - Yutong E10 - Go North East (Voltra - 53/54) - Newcastle, Market Street 27/11/20

www.flickr.com

Newcastle Yutong buses but both at same point and different displays (back 2 mins to depart), in front via points..

Yet in this picture alone I could easily ask which one is early/late or on time?

 

[RT4038]

I understand what you say but whats the point in arriving early at a timing point so you don't leave early?

To avoid slow running /obstruction between timing points, particularly where, for whatever reason, the normal traffic or passenger load is not present.

 

[peterblue]

I understand what you say but whats the point in arriving early at a timing point so you don't leave early?

Sometimes it can be down to the luck of the road too - for example if there's fewer cars or passengers than usual.

 

[kez19]

Sometimes it can be down to the luck of the road too - for example if there's fewer cars or passengers than usual.

On my route passenger level is very few but stopping nearly every 5 minutes has to be a joke?

 

[Deerfold]

On my route passenger level is very few but stopping nearly every 5 minutes has to be a joke?

It's not good, but it's preferable to passengers missing the bus because it left earlier than the timetable said.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 30 Nov 2020 ==

I don't understand how come there only London is using Ibus system. As it could be used in other areas as the costs are paid for in Development now so it should be cheap to rollout the tech. and with ibus things like bus stops and Information On screens can be controlled better and does not need driver to touch the system with it all done by driver putting in duty number into bus and could even tell driver to wait at bus stops till time..

There are other places use the system. But the underlying system is not owned by TfL, so it's not cheaper for anyone to use it. It's a good system, but very high-spec - it involves tying together ticket machines, on-bus information, bus radios and assumes you have route controllers looking at all the routes - if you're not using the same kit, they'll have to integrate them. For most UK operators it's overkill and will be a very expensive system.

 

[Boo_]

Yes the Ibus system is over kill as it links all the systems but it was made pre ticketer. Now Ticketer can do it all from there kit. but like my point now Ibus is proven So cost to rollout to new areas are far lower.

 

[py_megapixel]

Yes the Ibus system is over kill as it links all the systems but it was made pre ticketer. Now Ticketer can do it all from there kit. but like my point now Ibus is proven So cost to rollout to new areas are far lower.

But Ticketer kit is already deployed in a decent chunk of the nation's bus fleet, so I'd have thought rolling out that system would be more cost effective.

 

[Boo_]

But Ticketer kit is already deployed in a decent chunk of the nation's bus fleet, so I'd have thought rolling out that system would be more cost effective.

Yes my point is Ibus or Ticketer could be used as it should be cheaper now as the hard work is done. As there no need for upink by radio or adding a computer into the buses now. all the kit is there it just need to talk to each other and a bit of code from Ticketer.

 

[kez19]

Might be off topic but I might as well ask, have bus companies phased out "radio" and that if drivers have issues they have to text on a ticket system? I know if say a driver did have an issue with a bus or let alone a display one would assume contact by radio but from where I stay it seems drivers have to contact by text?

 

[Deerfold]

Yes the Ibus system is over kill as it links all the systems but it was made pre ticketer. Now Ticketer can do it all from there kit. but like my point now Ibus is proven So cost to rollout to new areas are far lower.

If the provider chooses to charge less.

 

[Boo_]

Might be off topic but I might as well ask, have bus companies phased out "radio" and that if drivers have issues they have to text on a ticket system? I know if say a driver did have an issue with a bus or let alone a display one would assume contact by radio but from where I stay it seems drivers have to contact by text?

No as if you have Radio no point removing it and it good for group calls like traffic issues. and you can talk to drivers over them using phones. Many taxi firms still keep there radios as backup. once you paid for License and have the base station you can also reuse old radios there not much cost for it.

 

[kez19]

No as if you have Radio no point removing it and it good for group calls like traffic issues. and you can talk to drivers over them using phones. Many taxi firms still keep there radios as backup. once you paid for License and have the base station you can also reuse old radios there not much cost for it.

Seems like bus company here has done that (Xplore) they seem to now use a machine to text for things like that ie issues. I agree that radios should be used as backup but I’m sure it’s phased out?

 

[Deerfold]

TfL used to have reserved radio frequencies. Although all London buses still have 'radios' they actually use mobile phone networks to transmit.