Bus Quality

[Bobdogs]

I am a regular traveller on the T1 service which runs between Aberystwyth and Carmarthen. Legroom for tall passengers is poor, the ride is harsh, you can feel every bump in the road and, especially at this time of year , the heating seems to be non-existent. The vehicles also seem to rattle and squeak incessantly. As a former HGV driver, my sympathies go out to the drivers who have to put up with the racket.
However, my question is, having never journeyed on buses in other parts of the British Isles are these annoyances typical of buses in other areas. Also, for those of you who have travelled abroad, how do our buses compare to other countries in Western Europe and the rest of the world.

 

[Midnight Sun]

Normal for buses provide by stagecoach round here in the Fens, Heating only turned on in the summer to dump heat from the overheating engine.

 

[PG]

Sadly @Bobdogs what you've experienced is pretty typical of 21st century bus travel in the British Isles.

 

[radamfi]

Also, for those of you who have travelled abroad, how do our buses compare to other countries in Western Europe and the rest of the world.

British buses are built cheaply and are lightweight to save fuel which means you end up with the ride quality you experience. Other western European countries still buy more expensive heavyweight buses such as the Mercedes Citaro and MAN Lion's City which give a smoother ride. These buses generally come with double-glazing and air-conditioning to keep the interior climate pleasant all year round. Some British operators have been installing seats with more cushioning in recent years, but this does not outweigh the fundamental issues with the rest of the bus. Electric buses, as well as improving local air quality, are a step change in comfort as they remove vibrations and are much quieter. However, the roll out of electric buses in Britain, especially outside London, is slower than many other countries and still have the same issues with poor quality.

 

[Jordan Adam]

One of the big issues i've always seen in the UK is that pretty much all operators use buses designed for city services on demanding intercity/express/rural service. Thankfully in Scotland it's not as bad with higher volumes of coaches, but it's still an issue imo.

 

[56131 EllColl]

Streetlite Wright emergency door handle rattle aaargh!!!

 

[Geordie driver]

What make and age are the buses?
Before I retired I had to use buses for the last 3 months at work, Blyth to Newcastle. I wasn't looking forward to it as I had been been a bus driver for nearly 20 years.
For the most part the buses were warm ( it was the winter), fairly new and comfortable. Before Arriva took over they had some right old heaps with Northumbria.
Someone mentioned heaters on in summer, I have mentioned this before, I was once suspended for refusing to drive a bus with it's heaters jammed on in the summer. This from a company that would bang on about customer care, they hadn't got a clue.

 

[dgl]

I will say I was on a South West Coaches Solo the other day from Crewkerne to Yeovil and a window had to be opened by Yeovil as it was too warm! Was full though so that might have helped.

 

[JonathanH]

One of the big issues i've always seen in the UK is that pretty much all operators use buses designed for city services on demanding intercity/express/rural service. Thankfully in Scotland it's not as bad with higher volumes of coaches, but it's still an issue imo.

Don't Stagecoach have a dual source policy (as far as the chassis goes) for city and interurban double deckers? The same bodywork of course.

 

[Jordan Adam]

Don't Stagecoach have a dual source policy (as far as the chassis goes) for city and interurban double deckers? The same bodywork of course.

Nope. Most of their new buses are entirely ADL.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

I am a regular traveller on the T1 service which runs between Aberystwyth and Carmarthen. Legroom for tall passengers is poor, the ride is harsh, you can feel every bump in the road and, especially at this time of year , the heating seems to be non-existent. The vehicles also seem to rattle and squeak incessantly. As a former HGV driver, my sympathies go out to the drivers who have to put up with the racket.
However, my question is, having never journeyed on buses in other parts of the British Isles are these annoyances typical of buses in other areas. Also, for those of you who have travelled abroad, how do our buses compare to other countries in Western Europe and the rest of the world.

Buses in Europe vary from country to country. In places like Germany and the Netherlands, vehicles tend to be heavyweight with double glazing etc and higher quality. When people quote Europe, they tend to be thinking of the best locations such as those countries/cities who invest in public transport. However, it does vary - not so good in other places. Air conditioning is also more common but again, that can vary according to location in both specification and serviceability.

In the UK, the majority of services (and increasingly so as local authorities cut budgets) are commercially operated. Therefore, the commercial imperative is to reduce costs and so lightweight vehicles with better fuel consumption are often specified. Heavyweight chassis, air con and double glazing add weight and so cost in both purchase and fuel costs.

The slightly curious thing is that your experience is on a TrawsCymru service so it is actually supported by the Welsh Government. If they have the determination and money, they can specify the type of vehicle used. In fact, an earlier contract had them supplying the vehicles to the operator (who merely operated them). Therefore, the WG could definitely have better vehicles but have elected to have the lowest cost of operation and use their money to expand TrawsCymru instead.

 

[PG]

Nope. Most of their new buses are entirely ADL.

IIRC Brian Souter has a percentage of the shares in ADL so it's not a great surprise that Stagecoach buy a lot of their products.

 

[Bobdogs]

Thanks for all your replies. The buses are in the main 63 reg. Dennis and as you mentioned are suburban style with minimal luggage space and are more suited for stop start use. I have experience of a similar situation when I drove refuse lorries around South West Wales. My FM7 Volvo was replaced by a Mercedes low entry automatic, the worst current vehicle I have driven. In addition it used half as much fuel again than the Volvo. Which leads me to ask, are these automatic buses as fuel efficient as compared to manuals.

 

[Geordie driver]

I doubt there are many manual buses left in local service work, it's hard enough.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

I doubt there are many manual buses left in local service work, it's hard enough.

Very true.

Most vehicles have been automatic for many years excepting van derived minibuses like Transits and Merc 608s. However, they would go through clutches regularly.

Hence most buses since the 1970s have been automatics.

 

[Anonymous10]

I am a regular traveller on the T1 service which runs between Aberystwyth and Carmarthen. Legroom for tall passengers is poor, the ride is harsh, you can feel every bump in the road and, especially at this time of year , the heating seems to be non-existent. The vehicles also seem to rattle and squeak incessantly. As a former HGV driver, my sympathies go out to the drivers who have to put up with the racket.
However, my question is, having never journeyed on buses in other parts of the British Isles are these annoyances typical of buses in other areas. Also, for those of you who have travelled abroad, how do our buses compare to other countries in Western Europe and the rest of the world.

Same in Pembrokeshire

 

[Anonymous10]

Thanks for all your replies. The buses are in the main 63 reg. Dennis and as you mentioned are suburban style with minimal luggage space and are more suited for stop start use. I have experience of a similar situation when I drove refuse lorries around South West Wales. My FM7 Volvo was replaced by a Mercedes low entry automatic, the worst current vehicle I have driven. In addition it used half as much fuel again than the Volvo. Which leads me to ask, are these automatic buses as fuel efficient as compared to manuals.

Once again same in Pembrokeshire but most modern is 63 plate most are 05

 

[Busman84]

Buses now have thinner glass so the cold gets in quicker to the saloon. Doesn’t appear to be a roasting bus these days compared to years ago.. An E200MMC can blow warm air but this escapes quickly with thin glass.. Previously First had there single deckers double glazed which made a difference.. Also with these smaller wheeled buses (E200/300/Streetlights) the ride quality is poor not to add poor steering lock too. Get a tight junction and you can be caught out aswell as increased tyre noise and feeling every bump going..

 

[Eyersey468]

I think there are are a couple of aspects to this. Buses are built lighter to save weight and therefore increase fuel economy and a lot of the time they seem to be built to a price.The Optare Excel and Plaxton Primos were examples of this, build quality was atrocious to the extent if you went over a bump in the road there was a good chance something would fall off and they were very unreliable. Saying that ADLs MMC range does seem to be better quality than previous models.

 

[Statto]

Comfort wise, the modern deckers are ok, i can't stand the raised floor on upper front nearside deck on some Optare & Enviro deckers, but MMCs are good, TFL spec buses less so, i find TFL spec buses worse for legroom, than same build non TFL spec buses, i do like the Stagecoach Gold/Arriva Sapphire spoeck buses also like West Midlands platinum buses.

 

[philthetube]

What make and age are the buses?
Before I retired I had to use buses for the last 3 months at work, Blyth to Newcastle. I wasn't looking forward to it as I had been been a bus driver for nearly 20 years.
For the most part the buses were warm ( it was the winter), fairly new and comfortable. Before Arriva took over they had some right old heaps with Northumbria.
Someone mentioned heaters on in summer, I have mentioned this before, I was once suspended for refusing to drive a bus with it's heaters jammed on in the summer. This from a company that would bang on about customer care, they hadn't got a clue.

Did you point out to a manager that you felt it was unsafe to work in that temp, get that in writing somewhere and they won't have the courage to sent it out.

 

[Mitchell Hurd]

Well I went on 2 preserved buses at the Oxford - London X90 event in Oxford and I'm surprised how well these ride and not clunk over pot holes: A South Midland Bristol VR (NUD 105L) and a Red and White Bristol RELG 6L (OAX 9F).

The only problem with the Bristol VR (or VRT) was let's say when we were at the top of Headington Hill after going up it, the smell of burning inside the bus I thought was enough to require the driver to pull at the next stop and shut the engine off prompto. However, it managed to cool itself down and have that nice old smell like a preserved bus like it did when getting on it at Gloucester Green (12:30 service).

I caught OAX 9F on the 2pm back. Let's say for a vehicle of now 51 years old, it gives effortless and smooth performance - something some modern buses lack!

 

[Geordie driver]

Did you point out to a manager that you felt it was unsafe to work in that temp, get that in writing somewhere and they won't have the courage to sent it out.

At the disciplinary I insisted that if I was in the wrong I wanted the traffic commissioners informed. The first thing you learn is care and consideration of passengers is your main priority. They dropped the case. It wasn't bad in the cab, it was the passenger area that was boiling.

The bus was still being used for months after that but I never drove it again. There was even a letter in the local paper about it from a councillor complaining about it, the company replied that all you had to do was ask the driver and they would turn the heaters off. A blatant lie and bound to cause more conflict.

 

[Mitchell Hurd]

At the disciplinary I insisted that if I was in the wrong I wanted the traffic commissioners informed. The first thing you learn is care and consideration of passengers is your main priority. They dropped the case. It wasn't bad in the cab, it was the passenger area that was boiling.

The bus was still being used for months after that but I never drove it again. There was even a letter in the local paper about it from a councillor complaining about it, the company replied that all you had to do was ask the driver and they would turn the heaters off. A blatant lie and bound to cause more conflict.

I remember back in what 2012 Mum and I catching the 14:10 route 31 from Wantage back to the Vineyard in Abingdon (one of the MAN E300's - 22764 I think). Mum wasn't feeling a hundred percent (bit too warm) and I politely asked the driver, when someone was getting off in East Hanney, if he's able to turn the heating down or off and he said (if I'm right) 'Then I'll get cold'.

 

[robk23oxf]

I politely asked the driver, when someone was getting off in East Hanney, if he's able to turn the heating down or off and he said (if I'm right) 'Then I'll get cold'.

Most buses have a thermostat however a lot of them don't work so what you get when you turn the heating on is the maximum temperature. So you can either be boiling hot or freezing cold, not exactly helpful and a very basic issue that the industry needs to tackle.

 

[Geordie driver]

I have never driven a bus where the cab heater worked to the same controls as the saloon heaters, they were always separate systems. 9 times out of 10 the saloon heaters are switched off in the summer and on in the winter, the driver has no control over them.

 

[Bobdogs]

I have recently watched a series of films which featured bus types from the twenties to the sixties. I noted that after the second world war, a lot of designs were referred to as"utility". In view of the dismal quality of the buses on my route should not these vehicles be referred to as "austerity designs".
Another point; the T1 Trawscymru buses' don't have heated mirrors. Having driven lorries for many years, every one I used after the mid eighties had them.
I leave the last word to the driver I mentioned this to. "This lot won't pay for that sort of thing".

 

[Geordie driver]

I have recently watched a series of films which featured bus types from the twenties to the sixties. I noted that after the second world war, a lot of designs were referred to as"utility". In view of the dismal quality of the buses on my route should not these vehicles be referred to as "austerity designs".
Another point; the T1 Trawscymru buses' don't have heated mirrors. Having driven lorries for many years, every one I used after the mid eighties had them.
I leave the last word to the driver I mentioned this to. "This lot won't pay for that sort of thing".

As you will know, you drive a large vehicle on its mirrors, in the winter it's a constant battle to keep them clean. To be fair, service bus mirrors take a heck of a beating and quality items would cost a fortune in replacements.

We once had a demonstrator bus on test, forget the make but nice smooth single decker with air-conditioning. I was talking to the head fitter and my manager about them and was told they were probably going to get some. I asked if we would be getting air-conditioning and they both burst into laughter!

 

[Bcn1973]

There been a decline by some manufacturers over the last 20 years, blazefield bought a large amount of b10ble/Wright renowns in the early 00s which are reliable, have good legroom and headroom even at the rear, dont rattle over every bump and pothole and are still in all day service nearly 20 years on, conversely they also had a large number of b7rl Wright eclipses which from the outside looked a lot nicer and very modern, but have been hit and miss mechanically, are very cramped inside especially at the rear and rattle about like they're on solid tyres a lot have been returned after the lease was up, or moved on to other depots and in nearly all aspects were a backward step from the b10bles as for streetlites, possibly the worst buses transdev ever bought, just horrible to travel on and were actually replaced in Burnley by the renowns after 2 years

 

[shopbford]

To be fair, service bus mirrors take a heck of a beating and quality items would cost a fortune in replacements.

Even more so travelling across the High Level Bridge.