Bus stops - to stop or not?

[Lewisham2221]

Inspired by this thread about ringing the bell to get off the bus, what are peoples thoughts/experiences on requesting to stop to get on the bus?

It's often stated that the "best" option is for every bus to stop at every stop where there is somebody waiting. Indeed, that definitely has its advantages for people with varying disabilities, people who are perhaps unsure/not 100% confident on which bus they need, those who's phone screen is more important than looking for the bus they intend to catch and of course those situations where another bus, possibly on a different route, is already occupying the stop.

Of course, the downside to this method is that it can begin to cause (often quite considerable) delays when the bus stops, only to discover that nobody wishes to board. As noted in the above mentioned thread, it is particularly helpful when people clearly indicate that they don't wish to board however, this obviously doesn't always happen.

I've encountered many situations where people from local businesses use the nearest bus shelter as a smoking shelter and seem completely oblivious as to why the bus would stop there, where people are simply using the bus shelter to shelter from a sudden downpour (again, often completely oblivious as to why the bus has stopped) and - at stops without a shelter, just a flag and pole, people who choose the location of a bus stop as their point to cross the road - stepping forwards, right to the edge of the kerb, at the exact moment the bus is approaching, just as you would expect from someone who was waiting for the bus!

Does anyone else have any thoughts/comments/examples/observations?

 

[LiviCrazy]

The always stopping policy has caused me a few problems in the past in Edinburgh. I’ve been wanting to catch a (former) First service that’s following behind a Lothian service. I’ve waved past /shaken head at the Lothian driver and gone to indicate to the First vehicle behind but because they’ve seen the Lothian bus stop, the First driver has pulled out and gone past. It’s a problem when you have stops shared by busy city services and longer distance out of town services (which pick up less passengers).

I’m not sure what the solution is there. It would be infeasible for longer distance services to stop at every single stop for the occasional passenger they pick up, but it can be hard to get them to stop when they think you are getting a city bus especially if they are running late.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Yes. The London approach of "stop unless sure it is not needed" works well in pretty much all of Europe, and is better for accessibility as you say (bearing in mind that buses in the UK are used more by people who have some sort of accessibility issue than people who do not, i.e. the majority users in most areas are older people on passes).

It can slow things down, but good stop design (i.e. of which groups of services serve each stop) can keep that to a minimum.

 

[Geordie driver]

I would be happy if all stops were compulsory stops, but they would need to build that time into the timetable.

Which they won't.

 

[Bletchleyite]

The always stopping policy has caused me a few problems in the past in Edinburgh. I’ve been wanting to catch a (former) First service that’s following behind a Lothian. I’ve waved past /shook head to the Lothian driver and gone to indicate to the First behind but because they’ve seen the Lothian stop have pulled out and gone past. It’s a problem when you have stops shared by busy city services and longer distance out of town services (which pick up less passengers).

I would say that the policy does need to be the same among all operators using a given stop. If First can't manage to do the same as Lothian they should have their own separate stops.

I would be happy if all stops were compulsory stops, but they would need to build that time into the timetable.

Which they won't.

I don't think stopping everywhere is worthwhile. The best balance is "if in doubt, stop".

Far more time would be saved by way of other things like modifying ticketing and the interior layout of buses/doors etc.

 

[LiviCrazy]

I would say that the policy does need to be the same among all operators using a given stop. If First can't manage to do the same as Lothian they should have their own separate stops.

I do agree, separate stops would be better for city and non-city services. Sometimes at peak times you can have 4-5 city buses queuing and the non-city service having to wait at the back of that at every stop to find nobody wants on can get very tedious for passengers and must be frustrating for drivers.

 

[Siemens Trains]

I would be happy if all stops were compulsory stops, but they would need to build that time into the timetable.

Which they won't.

There's an argument that the timetable should assume that all advertised stops will need to be observed. If this isn't practical then the bus company can operate a limited stop service for selected stops only. If the company doesn't want short distance passengers using long distance services then they can impose rules like "set-down only" on some sections, similar to what we see with train timetables.
But we shouldn't have bus companies saying they'll make a decision to observe stops along the route if a driver decides they have enough slack time on a particular journey. Unfortunately this seems the most common situation.

 

[Lewisham2221]

But we shouldn't have bus companies saying they'll make a decision to observe stops along the route if a driver decides they have enough slack time on a particular journey. Unfortunately this seems the most common situation.

You're wording suggests that bus drivers would just drive past bus stops, without stopping, willy nilly. That's not the case at all.

The issue is when a bus approaches a bus stop where people are standing/sitting and nobody gives any sort of indication either way as to whether they want the bus or not. The last time I checked, I still had to stand up and/or walk out of the bus shelter in order to board the bus, so why can people not do this in order to indicate that they want to board the approaching bus? Saves time if they do want the bus, as they've already started moving towards the bus before it stops, rather than waiting for the bus to stop before standing, picking up any bags, moving towards the bus.

 

[Andyh82]

Like many threads, London and very busy routes elsewhere (such as the 192 in Manchester) are completely different than most other parts of the country, so responses to this thread will vary depending on where the poster comes from

The idea of stopping at every single stop, or basing a timetable around stopping at every stop in most smaller towns would lead to very long journeys and lots of waiting around

The answer in most areas is that you should stick your hand out for the bus to stop, if you are busy on your phone and don't notice the bus until its on top of you, then tough

 

[Ken H]

There's an argument that the timetable should assume that all advertised stops will need to be observed. If this isn't practical then the bus company can operate a limited stop service for selected stops only. If the company doesn't want short distance passengers using long distance services then they can impose rules like "set-down only" on some sections, similar to what we see with train timetables.
But we shouldn't have bus companies saying they'll make a decision to observe stops along the route if a driver decides they have enough slack time on a particular journey. Unfortunately this seems the most common situation.

Back in the day West Yorkshire Road car only stopped at a few places between their bus station and the Leeds boundary. So on Harrogate Road they had separate bus stops about double the distance of the Leeds city ones.

That all changed and now the Leeds - Harrogate buses stop at all the stops - same as the First services.

OK beyond Moortown corner there are few First buses now, so I can see the point of the Harrogate buses serving all stops there. But before Moortown Corner they could stop less.

And they could have their own stops so drivers know what service people want to use.

Seems more sensible than a bus going all the way to Ripon stopping everywhere.

 

[Trackman]

I was stood at a bus stop about 3/4 way down Hither Green lane waiting for someone.
I was looking out for them to arrive then saw a bus coming, so stepped back in the shelter and deliberately didn't look at the bus.
Bus pulls up (The 181) and driver opens the door and asks 'Are you getting on?', I said 'no, I stepped back' , he said no probs and then said they have told been to stop if someone is waiting.
I could have been waiting for the 225 to Canada Water, not Lewisham.

 

[Bletchleyite]

You're wording suggests that bus drivers would just drive past bus stops, without stopping, willy nilly. That's not the case at all.

The issue is when a bus approaches a bus stop where people are standing/sitting and nobody gives any sort of indication either way as to whether they want the bus or not. The last time I checked, I still had to stand up and/or walk out of the bus shelter in order to board the bus, so why can people not do this in order to indicate that they want to board the approaching bus? Saves time if they do want the bus, as they've already started moving towards the bus before it stops, rather than waiting for the bus to stop before standing, picking up any bags, moving towards the bus.

Because as I've repeatedly pointed out, you can't signal for a bus that can't see you because it's pulled out and is overtaking one or more buses already at the stop.

 

[Lewisham2221]

Because as I've repeatedly pointed out, you can't signal for a bus that can't see you because it's pulled out and is overtaking one or more buses already at the stop.

Quite. And I'm not suggesting that bus drivers should just whiz past a bus stop that is already occupied by another bus/service.

However, just because multiple services serve the same stop, doesn't mean that each of those services will all arrive at the same time.

 

[Taunton]

If First can't manage to do the same as Lothian they should have their own separate stops.

This was certainly the case long ago when I lived in Edinburgh, and city buses and Eastern Scottish (as was) had their own independent stop signs, which were very different in appearance to one another. How did this get given up?

 

[WAB]

Don't stop unless hailed, but be more cautious if there are other buses at the stop, would be my preference. No point delaying buses unnecessarily!

 

[eh1]

As a bus driver, my take on it is this:

If there is a bus stopped at a stop and I can't see the stop itself, I'll pull up and wait in case someone else is waiting for my bus.

If people start walking towards the kerb or are standing near the edge, or there is a lot of people, I tend to stop as not everyone seems to put their hand out.

If people are under the shelter, looking away or walk away from the edge of the kerb that to me says "I don't want this bus". Bonus points if they show me they don't want it, which is really helpful. You can lose a lot of time stopping when not needed, all it takes is to miss a set of lights and you can be three minutes down.

It really annoys me when people aren't clear, I can get in a lot of trouble if someone complains and I have no reason to not want to serve a stop!

 

[Ken H]

As a bus driver, my take on it is this:

If there is a bus stopped at a stop and I can't see the stop itself, I'll pull up and wait in case someone else is waiting for my bus.

If people start walking towards the kerb or are standing near the edge, or there is a lot of people, I tend to stop as not everyone seems to put their hand out.

If people are under the shelter, looking away or walk away from the edge of the kerb that to me says "I don't want this bus". Bonus points if they show me they don't want it, which is really helpful. You can lose a lot of time stopping when not needed, all it takes is to miss a set of lights and you can be three minutes down.

It really annoys me when people aren't clear, I can get in a lot of trouble if someone complains and I have no reason to not want to serve a stop!

What is the accepted signal for 'I dont want your bus'?

 

[Siemens Trains]

This was certainly the case long ago when I lived in Edinburgh, and city buses and Eastern Scottish (as was) had their own independent stop signs, which were very different in appearance to one another. How did this get given up?

A potentially misleading statement if taken generally but yes, a select few locations existed where stops were split out by operator rather than destination prior to the mid 1980s.
You still get something similar at much the same locations in Edinburgh. However since deregulation the route, type of service or destination has been used to segregate services rather than just the operator name.
Of course prior to deregulation the operator name would define many if these aspects.

 

[WAB]

The X84 from Ilkley to Leeds has its own stops in the city at many points, often in between the local stops so one express stop serves two local stops.

 

[Ken H]

The X84 from Ilkley to Leeds has its own stops in the city at many points, often in between the local stops so one express stop serves two local stops.

Did this come from the complicated stopping places in this 1936 West Yorkshire Road car timetable. There were definitely ructions between the Traffic Commisioners, Leeds City transport and WYRCC about abstraction of passengers within Leeds borders.

Timetable World

timetableworld.com

Link goes to image showing the stopping places from 1936

 

[WAB]

Did this come from the complicated stopping places in this 1936 West Yorkshire Road car timetable. There were definitely ructions between the Traffic Commisioners, Leeds City transport and WYRCC about abstraction of passengers within Leeds borders.

Timetable World

timetableworld.com

Link goes to image showing the stopping places from 1936

Yes, although the geography has changed much since those days, those stopping points do sound familiar. Don't think it survives on other routes in Leeds.

 

[computerSaysNo]

What is the accepted signal for 'I dont want your bus'?

I've seen people look at the bus and shake their head just before it pulls in, but that relies on the driver looking at them at that exact moment, when they could be doing any number of other things (e.g. checking mirrors).

 

[Siemens Trains]

As a bus driver, my take on it is this:

If there is a bus stopped at a stop and I can't see the stop itself, I'll pull up and wait in case someone else is waiting for my bus.

If people start walking towards the kerb or are standing near the edge, or there is a lot of people, I tend to stop as not everyone seems to put their hand out.

If people are under the shelter, looking away or walk away from the edge of the kerb that to me says "I don't want this bus". Bonus points if they show me they don't want it, which is really helpful. You can lose a lot of time stopping when not needed, all it takes is to miss a set of lights and you can be three minutes down.

It really annoys me when people aren't clear, I can get in a lot of trouble if someone complains and I have no reason to not want to serve a stop!

That's perfect and exactly what I'd expect as a passenger in Edinburgh. Including a driver getting into trouble for missing a stop just because they didn't fancy the wait.

What is the accepted signal for 'I don't want your bus'?

I'd say you should ensure the driver knows you've seen the vehicle, recognised it as a service you don't want then behave in a way contrary to preparing to board an approaching bus. For example you might retreat back into the shelter or step well back from the kerb (obviously many passengers may need to step a little back from the kerb to avoid the wing mirror or let passengers alight). A vigorous headshake and onward waving gesture like in a ZZ Top pop video might help, but they're a little dramatic.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I've seen people look at the bus and shake their head just before it pulls in, but that relies on the driver looking at them at that exact moment, when they could be doing any number of other things (e.g. checking mirrors).

I usually do an almost-theatrical visible step back from the edge of the kerb while shaking my head. Hardly disastrous if the bus stops anyway, as then I just say "no, thanks" when the doors open.

 

[GusB]

As with all such threads (and there have been several), it depends largely on local convention which can often be a remnant of age-old practises and it depends on other factors too.

Say, for example, I wanted to go to Tesco. I'd be rather annoyed if a bus sailed past me in the village because it's fairly obvious that I'm standing at a bus stop and it's an hourly service on a single route. There never had been any need to signal for the bus to stop.

On the way home it's a different matter, where the stop opposite Tesco is served by two or more services. There's my hourly bus, a more frequent service to another small town and a local route. For some drivers, the act of picking up bags and walking towards the kerb is enough of a signal, but I tend to stick my hand out anyway and then lower it once I see the bus indicating to stop.

Even in when I lived in Aberdeen, I found that there was no need to make any sort of gesture when I was heading into town; different routes that share a common corridor generally all head the same way anyway. When I did explicitly have to signal was when I wanted to use a Stagecoach bus instead of Grampian, and even then the drivers often sailed past!

As for indicating that you don't want a particular bus, either step back from the kerb or shake your head. I tend to wave in the direction of travel and, from experience, this seems to be appreciated by drivers as they usually raise a hand to signal thanks. Sometimes I'll even get a quick beep of the horn.

There are no hard and fast rules. Actually, there probably are somewhere in the terms and conditions, but who reads those?!

 

[Welshman]

What is the accepted signal for 'I dont want your bus'?

I've usually stepped back from the edge of the kerb and waved the driver past.
If I knew the bus I was wanting was following behind, I'd wave the driver past at the same time as pointing to the bus behind. Then,hopefully he/she will indicate signifying pulling away from the kerb into the traffic flow and the driver behind realise I might want to board his/her bus.
That's the theory anyway. This of course, is all well and good for those who are not visually handicapped.

 

[Simon75]

I've usually stepped back from the edge of the kerb and waved the driver past.
If I knew the bus I was wanting was following behind, I'd wave the driver past at the same time as pointing to the bus behind. Then,hopefully he/she will indicate signifying pulling away from the kerb into the traffic flow and the driver behind realise I might want to board his/her bus.
That's the theory anyway. This of course, is all well and good for those who are not visually handicapped.

I would the same, but some people do expect the bus to stop at the stop,if passengers are there