Buses Excetera (Surrey) reported to have ceased trading

[alex397]

Looks like another operator gone, according to local reports.

They were a smaller company than they used to be, until now operating school routes and 2 main routes - the 28 (Guildford-Woking) and the 479 (Guildford-Epsom).

Will be interesting to see what operators will cover this work, and if other operators are easily found!

https://www.getsurrey.co.uk/news/surrey-news/buses-excetera-ceases-trading-no-15957818

A Merstham-based bus company has ceased trading six months after it lost all its contracts with Surrey County Council.

Buses Excetera, which operated two regular commercial routes and six school routes, went into administration on Monday (March 11) leaving some schools scrambling to find a way to get their pupils home.

In September 2018, the company's county council contracts were transferred to other providers costing Buses Excetera more than £100,000 a year and leaving it with just a handful of routes including the 28 from Guildford to Woking and the 479 from Guildford to Epsom.

There was no notice of the closure on the company's website, nor did anyone answer the phone when SurreyLive attempted to contact its head office.

In addition to its two commercial routes, Buses Excetera operated the following school routes:

• 43 between Godalming and Cranleigh
• 45 between Rodborough and Busbrudge
• 617 between St Andrew's School and Banstead
• 618 between St Andrew's School and Walton-on-the-Hill
• 619 between St Andrew's School and Lower Kingswood
• 668 between St Andrew's School and North Cheam

Glyn School in Epsom, one of those affected by the closure, tweeted that three buses would follow the 618 route on Monday afternoon only to get children home.

Buses Excetera is not the only Surrey bus company to have struggled following the loss of council contracts.

Drivers at Arriva's Guildford depot are considering strike action after the company threatened to impose pay cuts due to flagging profits, while competition between companies in the area has also increased.

This seems to be a surprisingly well informed local news article regarding buses.

 

[Busaholic]

Not entirely unexpected. Hope all the school children got home safely. With all the competition in Guildford, it'd be surprising if the 28 and 479 (or a version of them) didn't continue in some form.

 

[alex397]

Not entirely unexpected. Hope all the school children got home safely. With all the competition in Guildford, it'd be surprising if the 28 and 479 (or a version of them) didn't continue in some form.

I'm sure some company will take them on - but do any of these competing operators in Guildford really want to expand?, especially on relatively long inter-urban routes. Safeguard only have local bus routes, and Arriva don't seem keen on expanding (even when competing within Guildford). Stagecoach would be my best bet, as they seem to be investing in the area. I'm no expert in this area of Surrey though!

 

[Surreyman]

I'm sure some company will take them on - but do any of these competing operators in Guildford really want to expand?, especially on relatively long inter-urban routes. Safeguard only have local bus routes, and Arriva don't seem keen on expanding (even when competing within Guildford). Stagecoach would be my best bet, as they seem to be investing in the area. I'm no expert in this area of Surrey though!

Presumably Surrey C.C will arrange short term replacement contracts with whoever has immediate capacity, I doubt if the 28 & 479 have a PVR of more than 2/3 vehicles combined.
The school contracts are around Redhill/Banstead areas, again short term contracts with whatever bus/coach operators can handle it (Ex Excetra staff probably available to employ).
Apart from the short term pain, this is a very small operation, just a 'blip'.
The buses were old and outside the peaks seemed to carry mostly fresh air.
Hate to be cynical but in the current economic climate, there will be more small operators going the same way.

 

[Busaholic]

I'm sure some company will take them on - but do any of these competing operators in Guildford really want to expand?, especially on relatively long inter-urban routes. Safeguard only have local bus routes, and Arriva don't seem keen on expanding (even when competing within Guildford). Stagecoach would be my best bet, as they seem to be investing in the area. I'm no expert in this area of Surrey though!

Safeguard have survived because they know their market and stick to it, and seem to inspire loyalty from their customer base. I wonder whether Epsom Buses might be interested in Epsom to Guildford? The Woking route might fit in better with Arriva or Stagecoach.

 

[Flange Squeal]

All of their remaining routes were commercially operated. Surrey County Council awarded all of their (remaining) council contracted routes to other operators last September.

The 28 is a very quiet route that was itself given up by Arriva in 2016, and been regularly fiddled with over the years to try and help its viability. It now just runs roughly every 90 minutes and carries fresh air.

The 479 looks to do relatively ok though and was the last route operated by Sunray Travel after the long, drawn out death of Countryliner. The route was very briefly fought for by Excetera and Quality Line in the immediate aftermath. I wouldn’t be surprised if Stagecoach go for it - they really do seem to be going for rapid growth in the area, plus can potentially call on the wider South division’s reserve fleet for vehicles.

PVR of the 28 is two, whilst the 479 in its present form (hourly end to end with Bookham shorts) can be done with four.

Until at least the end of this week, Cardinal Buses are doing the 617/9, Go-Ahead London are doing the 618 & 668, and Safeguard have the 43/45.

The Hants & Surrey Bus Blog has published an article on the recent history.

https://handsbusblog.wordpress.com/2019/03/11/buses-exit-era/

 

[Peter Mugridge]

This seems to be a surprisingly well informed local news article regarding buses.

Let's just say the Surrey local media have been keeping a very close eye on this company for the past 3 or 4 years... So they will have had a lot of background material on file about them already.

A few years back they had a few problems including bailiffs locking their depot with all their vehicles inside and, how can I put this, a complete change of the top management when the previous senior people suddenly became unavailable to carry out their jobs.

 

[Wirewiper]

Safeguard, Go-Ahead London (commercial department) and Cardinal Buses have each taken on two school routes as of this morning. No news yet of any replacements for the 28 or 479.

 

[Anthony ross]

Just seen on the hants and Surrey blog that the 28 will be run from tomorrow by falcon coaches

 

[EnviroExplorer]

Just seen on the hants and Surrey blog that the 28 will be run from tomorrow by falcon coaches

Indeed, with two almost new Enviro 200 MMCs - SK68LZL and YW68OVT

 

[richw]

The school contracts operated commercially seems a strange one. Are the school(s) in question a private school?

 

[Surreyman]

Looks like everything but the 479 is now covered by other operators.

 

[A Challenge]

Appears to be running Sundays only by Stagecoach on behalf of Surrey County Council, and being withdrawn on other days.

source: http://tangytango.proboards.com/thread/10659/buses-etc

 

[Flange Squeal]

The school contracts operated commercially seems a strange one. Are the school(s) in question a private school?

The contracts were tenders at one point, won by Excetera who then took them on commercially. They are quite well patronised.

Appears to be running Sundays only by Stagecoach on behalf of Surrey County Council, and being withdrawn on other days.

That isn’t a new thing - the Mon-Sat service was commercial hence it’s gone, whilst Stagecoach won the contracted Sunday service last year.

 

[richw]

The contracts were tenders at one point, won by Excetera who then took them on commercially. They are quite well patronised.

State school kids are entitled to free transport if they live far enough not to walk, funded by local authority which is why I can’t get my head round a commercial school service! Post 16 education is paid for by students.
Presumably if they do pay parents pay weeks or months in advance. In fact our post 16 college passes are paid either termly or yearly, depending on parents choice. So potentially a lot of parents out of pocket if they pay in advance.

 

[Flange Squeal]

There are a mix of school services in Surrey. The sort of services you describe are generally closed-contract and operated by coach companies with E-prefixed route numbers.

Then you have a large number of routes tendered by the council and registered by bus companies as local services, but running only on school days obviously only kids really use them but technically anyone can. They form the bulk of the work done by small independents in Surrey such as Bear Buses and Cardinal Buses. The routes Excetera had were tendered, but they obviously felt they could run them commercially. It also of course meant they could retain that work when the council awarded all their other work to other operators from last September.

 

[carlberry]

State school kids are entitled to free transport if they live far enough not to walk, funded by local authority which is why I can’t get my head round a commercial school service! Post 16 education is paid for by students.
Presumably if they do pay parents pay weeks or months in advance. In fact our post 16 college passes are paid either termly or yearly, depending on parents choice. So potentially a lot of parents out of pocket if they pay in advance.

The council only have to pay to the nearest school, not to whichever school the parents have chosen. Anybody who uses it under the 2-3 mile limit also wouldn't qualify.

 

[alex397]

Appears to be running Sundays only by Stagecoach on behalf of Surrey County Council, and being withdrawn on other days.

source: http://tangytango.proboards.com/thread/10659/buses-etc

That isn’t a new thing - the Mon-Sat service was commercial hence it’s gone, whilst Stagecoach won the contracted Sunday service last year.

A similar thing occurred with Trustybus route 505 (Chingford - Waltham Abbey - Harlow). The hourly Mon-Sat service was an Essex CC contract, with Trustybus later taking on the Mon-Fri service commercially. They appeared to be losing money and withdrew the Mon-Fri service, and Essex CC have never replaced it, meaning Trustybus still operate the route but only on Saturdays as that is still contracted. So, Chingford and Waltham Abbey only have a direct public transport link on Saturdays, and have done for a long time now - alternative links are not exactly easy either.

 

[A Challenge]

A similar thing occurred with Trustybus route 505 (Chingford - Waltham Abbey - Harlow). The hourly Mon-Sat service was an Essex CC contract, with Trustybus later taking on the Mon-Fri service commercially. They appeared to be losing money and withdrew the Mon-Fri service, and Essex CC have never replaced it, meaning Trustybus still operate the route but only on Saturdays as that is still contracted. So, Chingford and Waltham Abbey only have a direct public transport link on Saturdays, and have done for a long time now - alternative links are not exactly easy either.

Surely they should re-contract the Monday to Friday/Saturday service?

 

[alex397]

Surely they should re-contract the Monday to Friday/Saturday service?

Indeed. But I believe they did want to, but have not been able to due to budget constraints. It is also made more complicated as the Waltham Abbey to Harlow section is also covered by another route, the commercial 86 (Mon-Fri, every 90 mins) now operated by Arriva, and also Chingford is in London. I guess the transport budget can't really prioritise a route that is partially covered by a commercial route, and with a section in London.

 

[richw]

It is also made more complicated as the Waltham Abbey to Harlow section is also covered by another route, the commercial 86 (Mon-Fri, every 90 mins) now operated by Arriva, and also Chingford is in London. I guess the transport budget can't really prioritise a route that is partially covered by a commercial route, and with a section in London.

I understand that a route can’t be subsidised if another operator covers it commercially, whether budget allows or not. However the non covered section could be subsidised as a route.

 

[alex397]

I understand that a route can’t be subsidised if another operator covers it commercially, whether budget allows or not. However the non covered section could be subsidised as a route.

Indeed, I agree it should be. It also means the village of Sewardstone has no public transport on 6 out of 7 days, despite being very close to Waltham Abbey, and the dense urban area of North East London. The Mon-Fri service is unlikely to come back anytime soon though, seeing as its been quite a long time now since the Mon-Fri service was withdrawn.
Perhaps if the Mon-Fri service was withdrawn around 10 years ago, perhaps TfL would have replaced it, but they certainly aren't expanding right now. And Essex CC, like most councils, are trying to cut back as much as they can.
Sorry about going a bit off-topic about the 505 but felt some of it is relevant to what is happening elsewhere with the 479.

 

[A Challenge]

My comment was meant to apply to both the 505 and the 479 (and indeed to any routes in a similar situation. Locally, the MAX 34 (the MAX 35 doesn't run on Sundays) is subsidised Sunday only, and the 91 is at evenings (when it runs some services beyond Sainsbury's downh the general route of the 28)

 

[alex397]

My comment was meant to apply to both the 505 and the 479 (and indeed to any routes in a similar situation. Locally, the MAX 34 (the MAX 35 doesn't run on Sundays) is subsidised Sunday only, and the 91 is at evenings (when it runs some services beyond Sainsbury's downh the general route of the 28)

Ah, I see!

 

[Flange Squeal]

Arriva are to take on the 479.

 

[AB93]

Arriva are to take on the 479.

Sounds like there’s a possibility Surrey CC might end up having to stump up some subsidy.
This from a local councillor yesterday. Will be interesting to see what the case is. Bearing in mind the Arriva operations at Guildford are already loss making.

Some hopeful news at last for 479 bus users, with press reports that Surrey County Council are hoping to make an announcement later today. Yesterday at Mole Valley LC I pressed for the Council to consider introducing an emergency subsidy for the service, which is the last of the eight services previously 'served' by Buses Excetera still without a replacement operator. The impact on Fetcham and Bookham residents has been appalling. Surrey Live BBC News Leatherhead Living.

 

[RELL6L]

Surrey County Council website this morning says Arriva are taking it over from tomorrow (Saturday) to the existing timetable. No word on whether any subsidy is involved. Nothing on Arriva website yet.

 

[siriain]

A tweet from Arriva: https://twitter.com/arrivasurrey/status/1106580920562319360

We are Happy to announce that as of Saturday 16th March we will be running service 479 (Guildford – Bookham - Leatherhead - Epsom) All 'Buses Excetera' valid tickets will be accepted until Friday 5th April, see timetable attached for full details. See you there

 

[higthomas]

From the timetable within the above tweet:

The Monday - Saturday service is operated by Arriva, on behalf of Surrey County Council

 

[philthetube]

State school kids are entitled to free transport if they live far enough not to walk, funded by local authority which is why I can’t get my head round a commercial school service! Post 16 education is paid for by students.
Presumably if they do pay parents pay weeks or months in advance. In fact our post 16 college passes are paid either termly or yearly, depending on parents choice. So potentially a lot of parents out of pocket if they pay in advance.

There is no reason why the council shouldn't pay for pupils transport in these circumstances, just as with any other service.