BusTimes.Org

[markymark2000]

I do agree, but I just can't see much energy for progressing much beyond what we currently in terms of bus tracking across all operators.

It's the law that operators who run any local bus service in or partly in England should have tracking now via bus open data (which in turn sends tracking to bustimes). All it needs is for the traffic commissioner to start clamping down on it properly rather than just finding a firm that they don't like anyway and using it as a reason to get at them. Sadly Scotland has no ambition to start open data and so tracking for Scotland relies upon operators signing up to use Passenger services (either MyTrip or having a Passenger website) or releasing their location data off their own back (which is unlikely given the costs). Wales reportedly is thinking of bus open data but if/when/how that comes about, we will have to see.

Just discovered this '?detailed=1' information with vehicles by trip showing on the timetable. What other information is available that you need to know how to get at? Is there a use guide showing all the functions available?

The only other one is '/fares' but this only works on some routes. If it works, it will generally give you a very messy fares list. Operators uploading fares data to bus open data is significantly lower than those uploading timetable and location data so it's not widespread and the fare tables can be a bit messy and that is why it's not made easier to access. There are one or two operators (can't think who they are now) but on the timetable page, it would have a drop down at the bottom of the page and you could check fares.

i do not know why but First Halifax school buses do not track where as school ones at Oldham do track also Oldhams Amazon contract does not track

Are the Halifax schools the yellow school bus ones as they don't have to track as they are closed door school routes. Amazon is a strange one as some of them are registered, some of them aren't. That is kind of the determining factor in if they have to comply with bus open data or not (other rules apply but in basic terms, this is the case)

 

[Andyh82]

Are the Halifax schools the yellow school bus ones as they don't have to track as they are closed door school routes. Amazon is a strange one as some of them are registered, some of them aren't. That is kind of the determining factor in if they have to comply with bus open data or not (other rules apply but in basic terms, this is the case)

First West Yorkshire took the decision last autumn to stop all their school runs from tracking, up to that point even Swimming Baths used to track.

I’m not sure what contracts are not closed door in West Yorkshire considering none are ever suggested to be open, but identical contracts run by Transdev and Arriva track in West Yorkshire, so it must be operators choice.

From an enthusiasts point of view, it means you can’t do that ‘this bus hasn’t tracked for a while, maybe it’s been withdrawn’ business as many vehicles therefore never track.

 

[pokemonsuper9]

First West Yorkshire took the decision last autumn to stop all their school runs from tracking, up to that point even Swimming Baths used to track.

I noticed Tyrers' football buses for Middlebrook disappeared a while ago, which was why I was confused when someone said they were waiting for the football bus and I didn't see them on the map anywhere.

 

[318266]

Does it track properly on the McGill’s app?

Yes

 

[jon0844]

I trust bustimes.org's tracking, however I don't treat absence of tracking as absence of service.

That's the problem with buses versus trains. I have the means to see where a train is, and if it isn't showing then there's likely a track circuit failure and that's a whole bigger issue.

If a bus can be tracked, great. However, if a bus is not sending data but is running and I think it isn't, I can't really afford to wait 10, 20, 30 minutes to find out the reality. By that time, I might need to walk, seek another bus, or call a cab.

Bustimes.org is a fantastic site, but only as good as the data it receives and it is a real issue that tracking isn't considered as important as a bus having a driver!

Once someone has waited for a bus that doesn't come, will they try again? And we're talking about people who use a service like this, because a lot of the time the only info is what's on a printed bit of paper or showing on a display.

Frankly, councils should make it a requirement that if a bus can't run for any reason the operator MUST report this in such a way that an app can show that fact. Some use Twitter to report delays, but without a headcode you can't always work out what bus it was cancelled anyway - given it might show the time it started at a location you can't see on a timetable where you are.

Sure, it's better than it was even just 3 or 4 years ago, but even the smallest issue can and will put people off - who we are supposedly trying to encourage to use more public transport, so we can wean people out of their cars. If there's even a small chance that the next bus to town/train station might not turn up - despite me having access to some great apps/sites - won't I just call a taxi or jump in my car? And that's for one person - imagine now if it was a family, with kids, who really don't want frustrated kids jumping up and down at a bus stop as you wonder what's going on.

It's not surprising that some people take to social media to complain. Given the shortage of drivers that makes short notice cancellations all the more likely, it is frustrating.

 

[pokemonsuper9]

If a bus can be tracked, great. However, if a bus is not sending data but is running and I think it isn't, I can't really afford to wait 10, 20, 30 minutes to find out the reality. By that time, I might need to walk, seek another bus, or call a cab.

I think I'm lucky that my local bus almost always shows up, and that's been true for the whole time I've lived here, it might be late, but it'll show up.
Although one operator wasn't the best in terms of timetable or driver training (extremely tight unrealistic timetable and always going the wrong way), and one time I saw them on bustimes.org just turn around, abandon the last bus of the Sunday and just go home after being 30 mins late, but at least I knew they'd gone.

 

[Simon75]

First Potteries 6 from Leighton Hospital to Crewe, started in April 2023 and has never tracked. It interiors with the 3 to Hanley, but doesn't show up on the 3 journeys

 

[markymark2000]

First Potteries 6 from Leighton Hospital to Crewe, started in April 2023 and has never tracked. It interiors with the 3 to Hanley, but doesn't show up on the 3 journeys

First never activated tracking for it. That is despite them being told about it via bus open data feedback but they won't do it.

 

[Stan Drews]

Yes

Obviously a bustimes issue then. They seem to struggle with quite a lot of McGill’s data, as the vast majority of routes on there show as Origin to Destination, although they show correctly on the McGill’s app and elsewhere.

 

[RomeoCharlie71]

They seem to struggle with quite a lot of McGill’s data, as the vast majority of routes on there show as Origin to Destination, although they show correctly on the McGill’s app and elsewhere.

That's what a lot of routes are set to in the TransXChange (TXC) data uploaded to Passenger's open data site, which is where BusTimes gets its data from. Garbage in garbage out, as they say!

e.g. the 1 in the TXC data says <Description>Origin - Destination via Bridge of Weir, Quarriers Village</Description>, which is exactly what BusTimes displays.

 

[Stan Drews]

That's what a lot of routes are set to in the TransXChange (TXC) data uploaded to Passenger's open data site, which is where BusTimes gets its data from. Garbage in garbage out, as they say!

e.g. the 1 in the TXC data says <Description>Origin - Destination via Bridge of Weir, Quarriers Village</Description>, which is exactly what BusTimes displays.

I wonder why the same garbage doesn’t come out elsewhere, despite coming from the same source? Strange!

 

[AY1975]

sometimes buses are running but not tracking

Yes, and you also sometimes find that bustimes.org shows a bus to have strayed from its booked route. That happened to me last year on the last Alfreton-bound bus of the day on Littles Travel route 140 from Matlock to Alfreton, Derbyshire, as I mentioned in this now locked thread: https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/bustimes-org-showing-bus-straying-from-booked-route.232687/

Unfortunately that thread got locked before I got a reply from Derbyshire County Council about what happened on that occasion. It turned out that the driver covering the afternoon shift had become ill part way through the shift, and the only driver available to relieve him was the manager who had covered the morning shift, but once the last Alfreton-bound bus got to Crich he had reached the maximum number of legal driving hours so he had no choice but to run light from there to the depot instead of completing the journey.

See also this now locked thread on bustimes.org: https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/bustimes-org.225401/

 

[Deerfold]

Given 3 years ago, almost no buses had live tracking at all, I think we are doing pretty darn well.

All buses in London have been tracking for 15 years now (with some since 1999). That's around 1 in 3 buses in the UK.
Local buses in Yorkshire have tracked for many years, with only new buses or those with small operators not doing.

 

[ChrisC]

I trust bustimes.org's tracking, however I don't treat absence of tracking as absence of service.

That’s the big problem. The fact that sometimes a bus isn’t tracking but it is actually running. I’ve noticed this quite frequently on my local bus route recently. It’s only an hourly service, and it went through a very bad period last summer when buses were being cancelled and not turning up almost daily. Therefore I always check bustimes.org and the Stagecoach app before setting out to the bus stop. On a couple of occasions recently, a bus has not been tracking when I have needed to use it to get to the railway station. I can’t risk waiting for the bus just in case it doesn’t turn up and so quickly made other arrangements. I notice that there has been one bus on the route that hasn’t been tracking all day today on both bus times.org and the Stagecoach app. It is running, because I have seen it going through the village, but I wouldn’t have relied on it if I had an important journey to make.

Would Stagecoach be aware when a bus is not tracking on their app? If they are, perhaps they should not use that bus on less frequent rural routes.

 

[jon0844]

They should really fix the issue ASAP. Like the thread about ramps not working, there are certain things that should be essential or a bus doesn't leave the garage. Yes, it might sound ridiculous not to run a bus because a display doesn't work or it can't be tracked, but if operators knew they couldn't run buses with certain failures, they'd likely have a better maintenance routine - and keep spares for essential items.

 

[dmncf]

What would TfL's response be if one of its contactors (e.g. Metroline) said sorry our tracking wasn't working but our bus did run?

 

[Deerfold]

What would TfL's response be if one of its contactors (e.g. Metroline) said sorry our tracking wasn't working but our bus did run?

Tracking on TfL buses depends on TfL kit, so it depends if they report the failure in good time.

If they don't track it messes up the system that calculates payments to operators as that confirms mileage operated and bonus or penalty payments based on mean excess waiting time and long gaps between buses. At the very least it's going to cause the operator to have to submit lots of paperwork.

 

[jon0844]

I bet the fact tracking is linked to payments means the London operators make that extra effort to ensure it works.

 

[GusB]

We're getting somewhat off-topic here. Bustimes.org is the subject of the thread - let's stick to it, please.

 

[riceuten]

I've recently had the issue where bustimes.org has shown a bus not running and it has indeed run - also showed as "cancelled" on the Arriva App.

 

[markymark2000]

I've recently had the issue where bustimes.org has shown a bus not running and it has indeed run - also showed as "cancelled" on the Arriva App.

Can you please provide some examples when it next happens. That way the community can help to explain what has happened or the developer can fix the bug.

 

[ricoblade]

I use it in conjunction with the Stagecoach East Midlands app to to try and work out the truth of what's actually running (there is no live information at bus stops and both Retford and Doncaster bus stations just show the next timetabled service).

Do they use the same source as they often show different information, the most common being bustimes showing a tracked sevice that does not appear on the app.

 

[Simon75]

I travelled on D&G 16.10 38 Macclesfield to Crewe (in Congleton). Bustimes said it was a red Solo. When it got to Congleton, it had grown to Enviro 200, with Centrebus colours!

 

[Typhoon]

I travelled on D&G 16.10 38 Macclesfield to Crewe (in Congleton). Bustimes said it was a red Solo. When it got to Congleton, it had grown to Enviro 200, with Centrebus colours!

Isn't that because ...

• Ticket machines IDs don’t always correspond with the actual vehicles they’re attached to. Equipment is often swapped between vehicles.

Copied from the bustimes website (https://bustimes.org/operators/d-g-coach-bus/vehicles (and on just about every other vehicle page).

I'm just happy that there is something I can reasonably rely on (signal permitting) to tell me if my bus is on the way. I use the vehicle type and (living in Stagecoach Land) the colour scheme on bustimes to indicate whether the approaching bus is likely to be the one I want. However, to be honest, given the choice it wouldn't be a Solo of any shade at all so I would be pretty happy with an Enviro!

 

[Leedsbusman]

Out of curiosity are there different types of user account. I can’t move buses between operators but I note some can.

 

[341o2]

Can you please provide some examples when it next happens. That way the community can help to explain what has happened or the developer can fix the bug.

When New Forest Tour ended last September, the two NFT Green buses did not show on the Morebus page after the NFT ended 2022, but did on the GoSouth page, now the NFT tour is running, they are now appearing on the Morebus page again. The NFT Red and Blue buses appeared on the Morebus page throughout this period.

I notice one of Morebus's vehicles appears as "DEAD", I presume it failed in service, and in other news, recently another bus had to be taken out of service due to a dog relieving itself while being carried

 

[Dfatcontroller]

When New Forest Tour ended last September, the two NFT Green buses did not show on the Morebus page after the NFT ended 2022, but did on the GoSouth page, now the NFT tour is running, they are now appearing on the Morebus page again. The NFT Red and Blue buses appeared on the Morebus page throughout this period.

I notice one of Morebus's vehicles appears as "DEAD", I presume it failed in service, and in other news, recently another bus had to be taken out of service due to a dog relieving itself while being carried

DEAD also equates to "Not in service"

 

[markymark2000]

Out of curiosity are there different types of user account. I can’t move buses between operators but I note some can.

Yes. There is normal user, trusted user and admin (for the site owner) for certain. I think that there may be a Super User as well but not 100%.

When New Forest Tour ended last September, the two NFT Green buses did not show on the Morebus page, but did on the GoSouth page, now the NFT tour is running, they are appearing on the Morebus page. The NFT Red and Blue buses appeared throught

If you find any more recent examples, please let us know. Unfortunately September is likely too far for any of us to try and explain what was going on and bustimes script has been amended so many times since then so how the site works may have changed slightly.

 

[341o2]

The New Forest tour commenced at the beginning of July, and the NFT Green buses only reappeared on the Morebus bustimes site, once they had taken up duty on the NFT, while the Red and Blue appeared throughout the winter and spring period. Today, 1826 came out of service on the Blue route and was replaced by Bluestar 1533 which took up service at about 1455 at Brockenhurst, but tracking only started showing at 1647 when it was at Buckland near Lymington, and now appears to be working normally. Maybe a Morebus issue?
Despite any glitches, I find the site invaluable. I wrongly assumed that most Morebus (and former Yellows) basically stayed on the same route, and there have been times when I wanted to photograph a certain bus, and it didn't turn up as I expected, being unaware that it had changed routes.

 

[43055]

I've recently had the issue where bustimes.org has shown a bus not running and it has indeed run - also showed as "cancelled" on the Arriva App.

Had the same with a trentbarton bus last week were the ticket machine was not working so we all got a free ride. Checking the tracker when I got home it tracked on the outbound run but only a few mins on the in out run which I was on.