Buying a rover ticket in the evenings

[mfurseman]

This was discussed before, but without a twist:
https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/can-you-buy-rover-rangers-tickets-on-ticket-machines.40182/

I often want to travel from Oxford to Didcot in the evenings. The cheapest ticket that allows this is the 'Oxford Evening Out' rover ticket, but I can't buy this from the ticket machines and there is no one available to sell tickets later on in the evening.

Oxford is a penalty fares station so it seems that the following statement from the conditions of carriage applies:

"If you cannot buy an appropriate ticket for the journey you want to make because
the range of tickets that is available at the station from which you intend to start
your journey is restricted, you must buy a ticket or Permit to Travel before you travel
that entitles you to make at least part of the journey."​

My issue is, the rover costs less than any other ticket that allows me to make part of my journey. It seems I am obliged by the penalty fares scheme to travel with a more expensive ticket. However, under these circumstances the above guidance seems to contradict the passengers rights under the conditions of carriage:

"Train Companies must ... Make tickets and reservations available at stations, over the internet or by
telephone as appropriate. Where there are no facilities at the station, tickets will
be available for sale during or at the end of your journey."​

I don't want to overpay for my ticket, but I also don't want to be issued with a penalty fare after getting on a train without one. What am I supposed to do in this situation.

 

[Puffing Devil]

This seems to be a bit of a bargain ticket, given even a single from Oxford to Radley is more expensive. (£3.15 v £3.70)

Assuming the you can't get a permit to travel from the Oxford TVM, I would take this problem to the TOC Customer Service Team via Twitter or Email to see what they suggest. Depending on their response we can best advise how to progress.


EDITED TO ADD
GWR allow you to buy this ticket online, presumably for collection from Oxford, though the price is £4.00, not the £3.15 on NRE. Presuming the price is correct and you can buy online and collect, this is the safest way to proceed.

As £4.00 is more than £3.70, you could also buy a single to Radley, though I would be sure to communicate this to GWR before or after the event to protect yourself in case you're stopped past Radley and accused of over-riding.

 

[horizonflame]

I believe if you need a day rover on the same day you can book via GWR Telesales for TOD collection.

 

[mfurseman]

Thanks for your information. Calling up to preorder a ticket seems a bit over the top to save £2.60, given the market these tickets are aimed at I can't see that being much use to the majority of passengers. Do you need to give the hours notice as you would when ordering online for collection from a TVM?

I had a look at purchasing the ticket online but wasn't offered any delivery options and couldn't proceed. I guess there is some database error due to the unusual ticket type...

Is it possible to obtain a permit to travel from a TVM? There is a dedicated permit to travel machine, however it appears to be switched off, presumably because there are TVM's present. Perhaps getting a statement from GWR would help enlighten things.

 

[horizonflame]

I encountered the same problem when doing a dummy booking online.

In reality it should be available almost instantly but give it an hour to be on the safe side. I used to use telesales to buy my gold card 1st class supplements before they were scrapped. The phone call was less than 3 minutes if that helps you decide.

 

[Muzer]

The Oxford Evening Out rover is listed on BRFares as £4, or £2.90 with railcard. Maybe the price has gone up since it was £3.15?

 

[Puffing Devil]

I had a look at purchasing the ticket online but wasn't offered any delivery options and couldn't proceed. I guess there is some database error due to the unusual ticket type....

I encountered the same problem when doing a dummy booking online. In reality it should be available almost instantly but give it an hour to be on the safe side.

I think a call to the GWR Web Support number would be a good idea.

Is it possible to obtain a permit to travel from a TVM? There is a dedicated permit to travel machine, however it appears to be switched off, presumably because there are TVM's present. Perhaps getting a statement from GWR would help enlighten things.

I don't know the machines in the area that well - hopefully somebody with hands on experience can confirm, or even check it out?

The Oxford Evening Out rover is listed on BRFares as £4, or £2.90 with railcard. Maybe the price has gone up since it was £3.15?

It would appear so. I don't know how NRE ends up out of sync with the rest of the data.

 

[Muzer]

Probably, the rover prices on NRE are often wrong I find. It's pretty bad, really.

 

[furlong]

Oxford is a penalty fares station so it seems that the following statement from the conditions of carriage applies:

"If you cannot buy an appropriate ticket for the journey you want to make because
the range of tickets that is available at the station from which you intend to start
your journey is restricted, you must buy a ticket or Permit to Travel before you travel
that entitles you to make at least part of the journey."​

The conditions of carriage were replaced by the Conditions of Travel over a year ago. The part you quote was deleted.

The Permit To Travel machine at Oxford station has not worked for several years and the company continues to do nothing about it. (Arguably the DfT should have suspended the scheme long ago.)

7.3 An authorised collector must not charge a penalty fare under rule 6.2 if any of the following circumstances applied at the
station where the person joined the relevant train.
a There were no facilities available to issue the appropriate ticket or other authority for the journey which that person wanted to make.

(There may also be an argument that the Penalty Fares signage is too well hidden at that station now for any PF to be issued - advertising and other signs have been given priority.)

Regarding the NRE price, you should ask to purchase it at the advertised price and if they insist on charging more, pay the incorrect price, make notes and pursue that through the ASA and/or ORR and write to customer services for a refund.

 

[swt_passenger]

The Permit To Travel machine at Oxford station has not worked for several years and the company continues to do nothing about it. (Arguably the DfT should have suspended the scheme long ago.)

Penalty Fare schemes no longer require PTT machines generally. See SWR as an example, where the only PTT machines still fitted are at locations where they are the only equipment..

 

[Puffing Devil]

The conditions of carriage were replaced by the Conditions of Travel over a year ago. The part you quote was deleted.

The Permit To Travel machine at Oxford station has not worked for several years and the company continues to do nothing about it. (Arguably the DfT should have suspended the scheme long ago.)

Good spot - I don't have the CoT that well memorised!

In this case I think approaching the TOC for specific guidance is the best way forward, then posting on here if it seems unreasonable. There's always the balance between the strict letter of the law and a little flexibility on both sides there is no inconvenience or detriment to the passenger.

 

[didcotdean]

If you do know well enough in advance to get the ticket through the post, you can order from here: http://tickets.gwr.com/gw/en/journeyplanning/roversandrangers

Bit of overkill for a £4 ticket.

 

[Puffing Devil]

If you do know well enough in advance to get the ticket through the post, you can order from here: http://tickets.gwr.com/gw/en/journeyplanning/roversandrangers

Bit of overkill for a £4 ticket.

Unfortunately that fails when you get to the delivery method... there isn't one possible.

 

[didcotdean]

If buying an appropriate number of days in advance then you can get first class post or express post options (this being 50% more than the cost of the ticket!). But yes there is no collection option here.

There is also ambiguity on this ticket as to what discounts are available on a Network Card. Some sites state these are only available Sat/Sun/BH, but this GWR sales site and stations apply the discount for any day of the week.

 

[mfurseman]

Thanks for your enlightening discussion everyone. I was unaware of the change to Conditions of Travel, and the wording now seems thoroughly unambiguous with regards to the situation I described.

I am happy to pay the 'correct' price of £4.00 for the ticket, it's a good deal despite the price rises. I believe it was £3.80 before the last price rise, it probably hasn't been £3.15 since 2014. No wonder passengers complain of confusing fares if even NRE can't post the right prices. I sent them an email in the hope they can update the page.