Buying a Season Ticket beyond intended destination (and more)

[Malderon]

Hey,

This is my first post here (as you will no doubt be able to tell!) So I hope what I'm asking isnt too trivial or covered too frequently.

I've recently got my first job out of Uni which is in Kingswood, Surrey. At least for the moment that has turned me into a commuter from Chichester, West Sussex.

The route almost always involves a direct train from Chichester to East Croydon. (Arun Valley, Horsham-Crawley Branch, then Brighton Line to London) and then a train from East Croydon to Kingswood (Tattenham Corner Line, service running London Bridge - Tattenham Corner)

I have been buying a monthly season ticket (I should be getting a 20% discount from next month onwards from an "easit" stamped photocard from my employer).

My questions are as follows.

1) The unreduced price of a monthly season ticket from Chichester -> Kingswood is £220.80. The unreduced price of a monthly season ticket from Chichester -> Tattenham Corner is £220.80. As I beleive with a season ticket I am allowed to break my journey. Even if I will only use the Kingswood - Tadworth - Tattenham Corner leg very occasionally, is it worth buying the Tattenham Corner ticket or am I in breach of some sort of rule by not actually declaring my intended destination.

2) For interest I looked up the price of a ticket from Chichester to somewhere further up the line (ie a shorter journey from East Croydon) (Woodmansterne for instance). For this I was only quoted a Chichester - Z5-6 season ticket, total cost £315.30. Using similar logic to above, wouldnt someone wanting to travel to Woodmansterne be better off buying a ticket to Tattenham Corner and breaking their journey at Woodmansterne?

3) My colleagues season ticket from East Croydon to Kingswood was priced quite reasonably so I thought I would look up the cost of Chichester - East Croydon individually. This was priced at £220.50 (Chichester - Croydon Stations) - a 30p saving. (My colleagues ticket was around £60). This seems an incredible difference for what (if I was travelling all the way to Tattenham Corner would be a 40 minute extra train ride for 30p! Is this sort of thing normal in ticket pricing?

Once again I hope my questions arent too silly or trivial and I hope I havent misunderstood any of the concepts (such as breaking journeys). Thankyou in anticipation.

 

[W-on-Sea]

Hey,
1) The unreduced price of a monthly season ticket from Chichester -> Kingswood is £220.80. The unreduced price of a monthly season ticket from Chichester -> Tattenham Corner is £220.80. As I beleive with a season ticket I am allowed to break my journey. Even if I will only use the Kingswood - Tadworth - Tattenham Corner leg very occasionally, is it worth buying the Tattenham Corner ticket or am I in breach of some sort of rule by not actually declaring my intended destination.

No problem with that at all. I do exactly the same thing for my season ticket, for the same reason. With a season ticket you're free to join or leave trains anywhere along the routes on which it is valid; not just at the starting and finishing points listed on the ticket.

2) For interest I looked up the price of a ticket from Chichester to somewhere further up the line (ie a shorter journey from East Croydon) (Woodmansterne for instance). For this I was only quoted a Chichester - Z5-6 season ticket, total cost £315.30. Using similar logic to above, wouldnt someone wanting to travel to Woodmansterne be better off buying a ticket to Tattenham Corner and breaking their journey at Woodmansterne?

Perhaps, although it would depend on how exactly they wished to use the ticket. A ticket including a Z5-6 season ticket would also be valid elsewhere in zones 5 & 6 (and not just on the Tattenham Corner branch), and would be valid on Transport for London buses (anywhere in London, in that case), and so on. If they were only going to commute by train to Woodmansrterne, then, yes, a season ticket to one of the stations further along the line and outside of Greater London/the London zones would indeed be cheaper, and it would be perfectly legitimate to buy one. But if, say, they were also going to travel by bus regularly between Woodmansterne and somewhere else, or travel on other railway lines around Croydon in Z5-6 in addition to the Tattenham Corner branch, then it might make more sense to buy the more expensive ticket.

3) My colleagues season ticket from East Croydon to Kingswood was priced quite reasonably so I thought I would look up the cost of Chichester - East Croydon individually. This was priced at £220.50 (Chichester - Croydon Stations) - a 30p saving. (My colleagues ticket was around £60). This seems an incredible difference for what (if I was travelling all the way to Tattenham Corner would be a 40 minute extra train ride for 30p! Is this sort of thing normal in ticket pricing?

More or less, yes. There are loads of threads here demonstrating the many different kinds of illogical ticket pricing on the British railways, for various historic and contemporary reasons.

 

[MikeWh]

1) Absolutely no problem using as little or as much of a season ticket as you want. It is the ultimate in flexibility. If you think you might make a trip to Tattenham Corner then it's worth it and will cause no problem on your usual journey.
2) Yes.
3) Chichester to East Croydon is the main line that you are paying for. To get to Tattenham Corner you start by doubling back to Purley, then it's a rural(ish) branch line. This might help to explain why it costs very little to add that branch line into your ticket. From East Croydon to Tattenham Corner the rates are set according to the London-wide zonal fares structure.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

... a season ticket to one of the stations further along the line and outside of Greater London/the London zones ...

The whole Tattenham Corner branch is within zone 6 (as is the Caterham branch).

 

[Malderon]

Thanks alot for the swift responses guys. Very helpful as I need to renew the ticket on Monday.

One more point (I'm sure you get alot of queries about permitted routes). Occassionally I will have to go into the companies central London office. I assume that London Bridge / London Victoria are not permitted break points because I had the option to change at East Croydon - so I will have to buy a single/ return ticket East Croydon - London Bridge. Is this correct?

 

[MikeWh]

Thanks alot for the swift responses guys. Very helpful as I need to renew the ticket on Monday.

One more point (I'm sure you get alot of queries about permitted routes). Occassionally I will have to go into the companies central London office. I assume that London Bridge / London Victoria are not permitted break points because I had the option to change at East Croydon - so I will have to buy a single/ return ticket East Croydon - London Bridge. Is this correct?

Yes, basically. You might find that the cheapest method is to get an Oystercard and change trains at East Croydon, exiting the barriers with your season ticket and re-entering by touching in the Oystercard. You'd need to do the reverse on the way home.

If you intend to remain on the same train (to Victoria) then you would need to purchase the additional ticket at Chichester before you start. It would have to be bought from the ticket office as the machines will not sell tickets from a different (E Croydon) station.

 

[Malderon]

Thanks again!

I do have an oyster card, and the train I'm currently getting in the morning is a rather strange service (06:59 from Chichester) which runs Southampton Central - London Bridge adding more carriages at Barnham and running slow up the Arun Valley line as opposed to every other service which runs from Portsmouth/Southampton fast up Arun Valley to Horsham, where it joins with slow service and then on to Victoria. Regardless it means that its actually a London Bridge service that I'm on and I wondered whether there was any way to use (activate) my Oyster card without leaving the service, but it seems there isnt

Not the end of the world as I will usually know well in advance if I'm going into central London and thus can order online or get at the ticket office.

Thanks again!

 

[wintonian]

If you intend to remain on the same train (to Victoria) then you would need to purchase the additional ticket at Chichester before you start. It would have to be bought from the ticket office as the machines will not sell tickets from a different (E Croydon) station.

Could you not buy the ticket on the train as long as you did so before East Croyden i.e. whilst you still had a valid ticket?

 

[W-on-Sea]

1)
The whole Tattenham Corner branch is within zone 6 (as is the Caterham branch).

I quite forgot that. Didn't used to be; these Southern Railway extensions of the zones into Surrey are really quite generous in places! Woodmansterne IS the last station in Greater London on the branch though, and some of the stations beyond that have no or extremely limited TfL bus services nearby.

 

[MikeWh]

Could you not buy the ticket on the train as long as you did so before East Croyden i.e. whilst you still had a valid ticket?

As long as the guard is prepared to sell it, yes. But it is a PF area, and if he's too busy etc etc etc, it's probably best to sort it first. The OP has spotted the other option of buying online to pick up from the machine.

I quite forgot that. Didn't used to be; these Southern Railway extensions of the zones into Surrey are really quite generous in places! Woodmansterne IS the last station in Greater London on the branch though, and some of the stations beyond that have no or extremely limited TfL bus services nearby.

That would explain why the travelcard option is available to Woodmansterne. Looks like they haven't updated the database from far-flung places like Chichester. I think the rationale behind the extensions was that where branches terminated not that far outside zone 6 it would increase patronage by bringing them into the London family. TfL also did it with Epping of course. You do have the anomaly that Epsom Downs is in zone 6 while nearby Epsom is outside the zones because trains carry on beyond there.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Caterham to Tattenham Corner via Purley is actually cracking value with zonal fares as it is entirely within zone 6.

 

[transportphoto]

I am not familiar with the layout at East Croydon, may there be a stand alone entry/exit oyster card reader on the platform?

On the other side of London, I have in the past changed from Paper Tickets to Oyster by jumping off the train (at Barking) touching the card, check for green light and entry displayed on screen, then jumping back on the same train.

If there is it may take a bit of working out asto what door you need to be near to do this.

 

[John @ home]

I am not familiar with the layout at East Croydon, may there be a stand alone entry/exit oyster card reader on the platform?

There is not.

 

[MikeWh]

I am not familiar with the layout at East Croydon, may there be a stand alone entry/exit oyster card reader on the platform?

On the other side of London, I have in the past changed from Paper Tickets to Oyster by jumping off the train (at Barking) touching the card, check for green light and entry displayed on screen, then jumping back on the same train.

If there is it may take a bit of working out asto what door you need to be near to do this.

You generally find those at stations where NR meets the tube in the same station. They were designed to allow people to enter Oyster in the days before most NR services accepted it. They haven't extended the concept to places where long distance NR interchanges with Oysterised NR unless there is also tube (eg Wimbledon).

 

[swt_passenger]

Yes, basically. You might find that the cheapest method is to get an Oystercard and change trains at East Croydon, exiting the barriers with your season ticket and re-entering by touching in the Oystercard.

I'd not presume your season will necessarily operate any barriers at intermediate stations on line of route though. You'll almost certainly have to be let through by staff.

 

[MikeWh]

I see what you're saying, though in this instance East Croydon is effectively the northen end of the ticket. I would expect it to let you through the barriers there, but if it didn't the barrier line will be staffed anyway so you'd only have to show the ticket. Indeed, on the manual gate there should be an entry/exit validator so you may not even need to go through the gates twice. I'm sure that they are usually 'inside' the barrier line.

 

[Malderon]

Thanks again for the responses guys. Interesting Stuff.

A couple of points of interest.

I tried my ticket out in the barriers at East Croydon today, and as some above have predicted it was not recognised. Not a problem as of course staff will let me through but a minor annoyance as there are often queues at the staffed gates.

Secondly in response to another point above, I am also offered the Zone 5-6 Season ticket when looking Chichester - Kingswood/Tattenham Corner. But I am also offered the (much) cheaper ticket to specific destination. However to Woodmansterne there is no cheaper ticket even offered by the search (only the more expensive 5-6 one), which seems rather strange given that you could legitimately purchase one to Tattenham Corner and get off early. They should at least show you the option is available!


Second Post:

More strange findings on this route. I decided to investigate splitting, so I entered Chichester - Horsham into the search just to see. (There is a stopping service that runs Horsham - Purley potentially providing me with a different changing point, hence why I tried it) Price quoted £229. Remember a monthly season ticket to East Croydon costs £220.50 and a ticket to Tattenham Corner costs. Also note that every train from Chichester to East Croydon calls at Horsham. What is with the Horsham pricing?! On the normal service it is only seperated from Chichester by Barnham.

Likewise travel to Crawley or Three Bridges (again beyond Horsham, though not as far as East Croydon) costs £217. Thus anyone travelling the journey Chichester - Horsham (and there are plenty of them) should not be purchasing a Chichester - Horsham season ticket. They should be buying a Three Bridges one! (Which not only is cheaper, but also offers further onward travel.

I've entered a whole new world of ticket pricing confusion