C2C class 720 updates

[The_Train]

602 and 606 have worked

Oops did have 602 down as well - any idea when 606 first worked?

 

[meld3]

Oops did have 602 down as well - any idea when 606 first worked?

Sorry, only noted it has worked (I check RTT every day).
Have ridden 602,04,09,10 so far.

 

[samuelmorris]

I rode 606 on the 20th, so at least as far back as that.

 

[chris11256]

Any idea when we'll start to see more services run by the 720's rather than just two in each peak?

 

[samuelmorris]

I'm not sure if they'll ever be used much outside the peaks? Off-peak timetable is small enough not to need them and the extra length means they can only run as 5-car in most cases, so decisions need to be made about whether 5 Vs 8 is appropriate.

 

[chris11256]

Thats understandable, I meant when we'll start to see them more in peak rather than just four services. Unless the plan is keep use of them minimal until the December timetable change?

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

I'm not sure if they'll ever be used much outside the peaks? Off-peak timetable is small enough not to need them and the extra length means they can only run as 5-car in most cases, so decisions need to be made about whether 5 Vs 8 is appropriate.

They have 12 though, or 6 pairs.

 

[chris11256]

A quick rough count shows 8 12 carriage services in the AM peak. So I suppose to free to the maximum number of 357's you'd run all 6 720 pairs on those services.

 

[Kite159]

A single 720 would make sense on weekend/off-peak services which terminate at Grays from the Dagenham direction. Busy on a 4 coach unit but quiet on 8 coaches.

Or even as pairs on some of those services towards Stratford on days West Ham are at home or in the run up to Christmas (where they have run triple 357s in the past)

 

[JonathanH]

Have they been leased on the basis they can run a 'normal' number of hours, or is their use going to be restricted in a similar way to the use of the 387s when they were with c2c?

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

Have they been leased on the basis they can run a 'normal' number of hours, or is their use going to be restricted in a similar way to the use of the 387s when they were with c2c?

Hopefully they will take into account the fact that they effectively have triple what they had of 387s - six full length trains instead of two.

 

[samuelmorris]

Have they been leased on the basis they can run a 'normal' number of hours, or is their use going to be restricted in a similar way to the use of the 387s when they were with c2c?

I doubt that, the 387s were only ever going to be temporary and were intended to be kept clean and tidy for use with a new operator. The 720s, as far as I'm aware, are permanent. It's just a question of if they still want to keep the mileage down to 'keep them nice' or to reduce the impact of faults while the miles per defect improves.

 

[chris11256]

I do remember someone else on this forum(sorry I can't remember who/when) saying that a return to 4tph Fenchurch-Shoeburyness off peak was partially dependant on these units. I assume because the 357's are becoming more maintenance heavy.

 

[samuelmorris]

I do remember someone else on this forum(sorry I can't remember who/when) saying that a return to 4tph Fenchurch-Shoeburyness off peak was partially dependant on these units. I assume because the 357's are becoming more maintenance heavy.

I find that somewhat difficult to believe, the off-peak unit requirement on c2c is so low compared to the peak. Even if all the off-peak diagrams were 8-car (which they aren't) and 4tph via Basildon was reinstated, I think that works out with a unit requirement of about 42 out of 74, not even 60%. Surely that's enough to run with just 357s?

 

[The_Train]

Sorry, only noted it has worked (I check RTT every day).
Have ridden 602,04,09,10 so far.

I rode 606 on the 20th, so at least as far back as that.

Thanks both

 

[MatthewRead]

Have they started working weekends yet?

 

[357]

I find that somewhat difficult to believe, the off-peak unit requirement on c2c is so low compared to the peak. Even if all the off-peak diagrams were 8-car (which they aren't) and 4tph via Basildon was reinstated, I think that works out with a unit requirement of about 42 out of 74, not even 60%. Surely that's enough to run with just 357s?

All off peak diagrams are 8 car and the return to 4TPH was dependant on 720s entering service.

Or at least that was the management excuse at the time.

The 357s while still running were getting bad - many units had motors isolated for months on end and cosmetic faults were being repaired with tape and other temporary fixes. We had a few permanently coupled 8 car units due to coupler faults, compressor faults etc too. The reason given by Bombardier/Alstom was that there were two many units required for service each day.

Edit: just checked and some off peak diagrams are back to 4 car. That must have been at the last timetable change as they were most definitely all 8 car before then, apart from Fen-Grays shuttles on Sundays

 

[JonathanH]

Have they started working weekends yet?

No. It isn't clear that they are going to work weekends.

 

[wls1]

Loop weekday off peak services went 4 car in May this year, and weekends everything is 8 car except Fenchurch - Grays via Rainham.

3 years of constant 8 car running has worsened the reliability of 357s. Good luck if you are to find a 357 with a working toilet these days

 

[Samzino]

Are 357s in such a bad state as said in these last posts? Didn't know they were in that much of a condition.

 

[357]

Are 357s in such a bad state as said in these last posts? Didn't know they were in that much of a condition.

Former 357 driver here. I'd say the last few posts are an understatement from my point of view.

 

[samuelmorris]

Are 357s in such a bad state as said in these last posts? Didn't know they were in that much of a condition.

As a regular passenger, they're in pretty rough shape, nothing compared to some of the Northern units I've used and probably still better than the Anglia units used to be during the temporary franchise days, but they're definitely looking pretty careworn, in need of more regular cleaning, a repaint and a bit of internal TLC.

 

[Samzino]

Former 357 driver here. I'd say the last few posts are an understatement from my point of view.

Dam lol

 

[Chriso]

Sorry state to where we are heading from this current crop of clowns in charge

Trenitalia are probably funding there new Trenitalia fleet with the profits

 

[47550]

I don’t know C2C very well but in these days of reduced commuting are the 720s really needed ?

 

[Samzino]

I don’t know C2C very well but in these days of reduced commuting are the 720s really needed ?

Considering the state of the 357s from what I hear then the answe is yes. Plus pretty sure C2C was one of the first TOCs post covid to start seeing very busy Peak numbers again.

 

[distinctratio]

A single 720 would make sense on weekend/off-peak services which terminate at Grays from the Dagenham direction. Busy on a 4 coach unit but quiet on 8 coaches.

Completely agree. A single 4 car 357 is usually full-seated on the weekend on services between London and Grays via Rainham. A 720 on the route would be perfect as now the extra coach pretty much guarantees you will find a seat.

 

[meld3]

It would make so much sense if the quoted 20+ surplus Anglia 720's were subleased across to c2c to allow the worst 357's to reduce their mileage before major overhaul. Especially as both are Angel Trains fleets, and regularly share Liverpool Street station at weekends.
Too sensible, so won't happen !!

 

[357]

surplus Anglia 720's were subleased across to c2c

Won't happen because the 357s are on a very very good lease from the side of the TOC. I'm sure Angel would like some more money but c2c have and do shortform trains before voluntarily getting extra units.

 

[wls1]

603 + 612 out today to add to the list