Caledonian Sleeper

[Chrism20]

This has appeared on Twitter this morning.

https://twitter.com/ohhay_bylauren/status/1164439196007837697?s=20

Love that the train guard on my 10 hour on @calsleeper train didn’t do his checks properly, resulting in the train going straight past Stonehaven, my station, and ending up in Aberdeen instead. Meaning by the time I got in the door I was a whole hour later

It's a very long time since I went north of Edinburgh on the sleeper so can't remember what happened re stopping. Is it a case of someone has looked at the passenger manifest and told the driver which stations passengers are alighting at and Stonehaven has been missed or what?

 

[DarloRich]

This has appeared on Twitter this morning.

https://twitter.com/ohhay_bylauren/status/1164439196007837697?s=20



It's a very long time since I went north of Edinburgh on the sleeper so can't remember what happened re stopping. Is it a case of someone has looked at the passenger manifest and told the driver which stations passengers are alighting at and Stonehaven has been missed or what?

while it is possible for a train to miss a station i always find these sort of tweets "a likely story" especially when RTT shows the sleeper stopped at Stonehaven for 5 minutes this morning..................

 

[Chrism20]

while it is possible for a train to miss a station i always find these sort of tweets "a likely story" especially when RTT shows the sleeper stopped at Stonehaven for 5 minutes this morning..................

I agree there is usually more to the story although the RTT I'm looking at shows it arriving and departing at 0719 unless I'm reading it wrong.

http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/G65041/2019/08/22/advanced

 

[DarloRich]

I agree there is usually more to the story although the RTT I'm looking at shows it arriving and departing at 0719 unless I'm reading it wrong.

http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/G65041/2019/08/22/advanced

agreed - misread it !

 

[GrimShady]

Has anyone used the bus connection to Oban if your using the seated coach to QS or Oban?

If so what's the score?

I can't find any information on it and CS arent replying to my emails.

 

[GarethC]

Has anyone used the bus connection to Oban if your using the seated coach to QS or Oban?

If so what's the score?

I can't find any information on it and CS are replying to my emails

I used the coach at the end of July. We were in berths but another passenger got on the coach who was in the seats. They had got on at Crewe and had just bought a ticket on the day to Crianlarich.

The coach waits outside the station (turn left when you go down the stairs). The bus driver was checking everybody had a valid ticket to Oban (we had bought Crianlarich-Craignure Rail+Sail tickets beforehand), however the seated passenger didn't have a ticket but was allowed to travel anyway. The coach driver can't issue tickets and there are no ticket issuing facilities at Crianlarich. So for ease make sure you have a ticket beforehand!

Gareth

 

[gordonjahn]

I agree there is usually more to the story although the RTT I'm looking at shows it arriving and departing at 0719 unless I'm reading it wrong.

http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/G65041/2019/08/22/advanced

Could be a misread - if an operator doesn't mark the stop as skipped/cancelled then RTT will just show the times that the train went past. When Scotrail skipped stops on an Edinburgh to Glasgow train, the only way you could tell as the train effectively made up time at each station it didn't slow down for or stop at.

So, on your RTT link, you can see these lines:

108 72 Carmont pass 0706½ pass 0715 8L
114 27 Stonehaven [STN] 0712 0715 0714 0719 0719 4L 1

This shows it as 8L passing Carmont at 0715 and only 4L through Stonehaven - picking up 4 minutes where there's only a 1 minute pathing allowance might be because it saved 3 minutes by not slowing down.

 

[Chrism20]

Could be a misread - if an operator doesn't mark the stop as skipped/cancelled then RTT will just show the times that the train went past. When Scotrail skipped stops on an Edinburgh to Glasgow train, the only way you could tell as the train effectively made up time at each station it didn't slow down for or stop at.

So, on your RTT link, you can see these lines:

108 72 Carmont pass 0706½ pass 0715 8L
114 27 Stonehaven [STN] 0712 0715 0714 0719 0719 4L 1

This shows it as 8L passing Carmont at 0715 and only 4L through Stonehaven - picking up 4 minutes where there's only a 1 minute pathing allowance might be because it saved 3 minutes by not slowing down.

Thanks. I noticed that it left Waverley 25L so thought that the guard may have advised the driver where passengers were getting off in order to speed things up and somehow the passenger for Stonehaven was missed when checking the list

No doubt Scotlands transport journalist of the year will be messaging her on twitter for information to write his next article.

 

[alexf380]

Could be a misread - if an operator doesn't mark the stop as skipped/cancelled then RTT will just show the times that the train went past. When Scotrail skipped stops on an Edinburgh to Glasgow train, the only way you could tell as the train effectively made up time at each station it didn't slow down for or stop at.

So, on your RTT link, you can see these lines:

108 72 Carmont pass 0706½ pass 0715 8L
114 27 Stonehaven [STN] 0712 0715 0714 0719 0719 4L 1

This shows it as 8L passing Carmont at 0715 and only 4L through Stonehaven - picking up 4 minutes where there's only a 1 minute pathing allowance might be because it saved 3 minutes by not slowing down.

But that's the thing, it doesn't show as a "pass", it shows it as an arrival time and a departure time. Conversely, looking at the RTT link provided it shows Kirkcaldy as a booked stop that was not called at.
In my view I'd say it did call there, and this lady hasn't been quick enough to alight and thus, overcarried.

 

[greatkingrat]

But that's the thing, it doesn't show as a "pass", it shows it as an arrival time and a departure time. Conversely, looking at the RTT link provided it shows Kirkcaldy as a booked stop that was not called at.
In my view I'd say it did call there, and this lady hasn't been quick enough to alight and thus, overcarried.

RTT doesn't know whether any train has stopped at a station, or passed straight through, all it can do is make educated guesses based on the times recorded. Looking at past running records, the stop at Stonehaven is recorded as taking at least one minute, and often two or three. I don't believe they could stop, release the doors, dispatch the train and start off again all between 07:19:00 and 07:19:59.

 

[bobbyrail]

RTT doesn't know whether any train has stopped at a station, or passed straight through, all it can do is make educated guesses based on the times recorded. Looking at past running records, the stop at Stonehaven is recorded as taking at least one minute, and often two or three. I don't believe they could stop, release the doors, dispatch the train and start off again all between 07:19:00 and 07:19:59.

It cant do that either, all RTT can do is display the data as provided by the Network Rail feed. For those unaware this is just the time a train has passed a certain point, normally before and after stations and junctions.

 

[TimboM]

It cant do that either, all RTT can do is display the data as provided by the Network Rail feed. For those unaware this is just the time a train has passed a certain point, normally before and after stations and junctions.

Everything after Cupar is a manually-entered timing point (by the signallers I believe).
The detailed timings at Stonehaven were:

Arrived 07:19 [manually recorded]
Departed 07:19 [manually recorded]

As already noted 5 mins of delay were also recovered. So it's quite possible the train didn't stop as the passenger noted.

If the stop hadn't been skipped, 1A25 may not have made it to Aberdeen "on time" (which is within a minute of the advertised arrival time per the Franchise requirements). The penalties associated with this could be somewhat more than refunding one seated passenger with a £33 ticket. Not that I'm suggesting for one minute that was the conscious decision made...

 

[GrimShady]

I used the coach at the end of July. We were in berths but another passenger got on the coach who was in the seats. They had got on at Crewe and had just bought a ticket on the day to Crianlarich.

The coach waits outside the station (turn left when you go down the stairs). The bus driver was checking everybody had a valid ticket to Oban (we had bought Crianlarich-Craignure Rail+Sail tickets beforehand), however the seated passenger didn't have a ticket but was allowed to travel anyway. The coach driver can't issue tickets and there are no ticket issuing facilities at Crianlarich. So for ease make sure you have a ticket beforehand!

Gareth

Gareth, thanks for the info. I assume there's a coach waiting at Oban station ready to take joiners to Cairnlarich for the journey south?

 

[Altnabreac]

Gareth, thanks for the info. I assume there's a coach waiting at Oban station ready to take joiners to Cairnlarich for the journey south?

I’ve not caught the coach but I’ve seen it waiting just outside the West Coast Tours shop along the harbour front from the station.

 

[BRX]

Is the bus to/from oban part of the franchise requirement or is it something CS do in order to catch some extra custom?

 

[47271]

Just on skip stopping north of Edinburgh.

I do know of at least one case of a passenger being overcarried on the northbound Inverness section because of this. There had been some confusion over their Flexipass booking in the days of paper tickets, I'm not sure if this was under Scotrail or after Serco took over. The service was badly delayed at an earlier point in its journey and the decision was take only to stop at those stations where set downs were already booked, so they sailed through (I think Blair Atholl) much to the annoyance of the innocent passenger.

 

[GrimShady]

I’ve not caught the coach but I’ve seen it waiting just outside the West Coast Tours shop along the harbour front from the station.

Found this https://www.nationalrail.co.uk/times_fares/195715.aspx

I'd would be nice if CS had the information on the website.

 

[InOban]

Why would you want the coach? There's a train except on Sunday.

Found this https://www.nationalrail.co.uk/times_fares/195715.aspx

I'd would be nice if CS had the information on the website.

X

 

[Struner]

& why would you want to spend over two hours in Crianlarich in the morning?

 

[InOban]

I was referring to the evening.

 

[GrimShady]

Why would you want the coach? There's a train except on Sunday.

X

To rendezvous with the sleeper meaning another woeful 156 journey has been avoided.

 

[oldman]

Is the bus to/from oban part of the franchise requirement or is it something CS do in order to catch some extra custom?

Funded by Transport Scotland. Source. It's described as complimentary.

 

[Bletchleyite]

To rendezvous with the sleeper meaning another woeful 156 journey has been avoided.

156s aren't so woeful that a road coach is better.

 

[6Z09]

& why would you want to spend over two hours in Crianlarich in the morning?

A bit harsh!
No wait a minute,rain and midgies, you are probably right why would anyone want to spend two hours in Crianlarich.
(Only joking,having grown up in the area and started work there its ok really)

 

[Karl]

A bit harsh!
No wait a minute,rain and midgies, you are probably right why would anyone want to spend two hours in Crianlarich.
(Only joking,having grown up in the area and started work there its ok really)

I've never understood the problem with midgies. I'm one of the lucky ones who doesn't get bitten. Abroad or in the north of Scotland I get away with it. TMI I know but a girlfriend was a mingy magnet and wouldn't visit Scotland again after our last camping trip!

EDIT - I meant midgie magnet!!

 

[Struner]

A bit harsh!
No wait a minute,rain and midgies, you are probably right why would anyone want to spend two hours in Crianlarich.
(Only joking,having grown up in the area and started work there its ok really)

It would mean a very long breakfast at the tea room then. Or walk down to the hotel for one - depending on the weather . & yes, it's a fine area.

 

[Struner]

I was referring to the evening.

I see. That wasn't clear. So the train only offers a connection in 5 out of 12 cases.
I take it that you would take the coach then in the morning.

 

[GrimShady]

156s aren't so woeful that a road coach is better.

Have you tried the refurb? They've actually managed to make it worse. The coach is only to Cairnlarich, plus it gives me the option of a late train.

 

[Hipster Dashie]

Just thinking about the topic of missed stops and what have you reminds me of a situation that occurred when I travelled down to Fort William back in April - a passenger boarded at Kings Cross with a considerably sized bag. The suggestion was that he stored it in the guard's wagon, which he did. However, he was not informed he would have to retrieve it during the train split at Edinburgh at ~4am. Cue the passenger waking up around Corrour to then be informed his bag was well on the way to Aberdeen...

As the passenger had not been informed of the unusual splitting arrangements for the Fort William section, Caledonian Sleeper agreed to taxi his bags over from Aberdeen to Fort William.

 

[GrimShady]

I see. That wasn't clear. So the train only offers a connection in 5 out of 12 cases.
I take it that you would take the coach then in the morning.

The coach meets up with the sleeper at Crianlarich for onward transit to Oban and vice versa, why would that include a wait?