Caledonian Sleeper

PG

Established Member
Joined
12 Oct 2010
Messages
1,234
Location
at the end of the high and low roads
Haymarket to Linlithgow/Polmont?

Larbert to Stirling?

Dunblane to Hilton Jn?
Thanks, I'll stick with your knowledge any day of the week ta :D
That would be a very slow kettle - most are around 2.4 - 3 kW.
I think PG probably meant that the difference (between 540kW and 475kW) is around 20 kettles' worth, which would be about right.
Indeed, rough figures based on (540-475)/3.
 
Sponsor Post - registered members do not see these adverts; click here to register, or click here to log in
R

RailUK Forums

captainbigun

Member
Joined
3 May 2009
Messages
976
The 90s vs 92s discussion is about six years old. The short answer is that the bid that won the contract featured Mk5s and 92s/73s. Any reference to 90s is missing this very specific point and is ultimately irrelevant.
 

MrEd

Member
Joined
13 Jan 2019
Messages
352
What's the top speed of multi 73s? The only place I can think of between Perth and Inverness is Kingussie to Aviemore where there is a section of 100mph.
I may be wrong, but I thought that the 100mph stretch between Kingussie and Kincraig was for HSTs and units only, not hauled stock (I seem to think that the line speed is 90mph Kingussie-Kincraig for hauled stock, then 75mph through Kincraig, then 85mph Kincraig-Aviemore- but I can’t remember this for certain; I’m not a driver or guard who signs the route, but am relying on what I can remember from observation as a passenger). It’s academic anyway, as the 73/9s have a maximum speed of 90mph, and the sleeper is normally timed at 80.

The line speed for hauled stock on large stretches of the HML (which has differential speed limits in some places for hauled stock vs. HSTs/units) is generally 75mph- there are definitely stretches which allow hauled stock to run faster than this, but (from what I remember) these are fairly short, and do not allow much in the way of high-speed running (not that the sleeper, the only remaining loco-hauled train on that route, normally needs this). A 75mph-restricted Class 66 will not lose any time on the schedule between Perth and Inverness. Perhaps a pair of 73/9s could reach 85/90mph on a few short stretches for a short while if needed when running late, but I very much doubt they’d be able to sustain this speed. South of Perth there is much greater scope for running above 80mph in case of late running.
 

paul1609

Established Member
Joined
28 Jan 2006
Messages
4,043
Location
Wittersham Kent
I may be wrong, but I thought that the 100mph stretch between Kingussie and Kincraig was for HSTs and units only, not hauled stock (I seem to think that the line speed is 90mph Kingussie-Kincraig for hauled stock, then 75mph through Kincraig, then 85mph Kincraig-Aviemore- but I can’t remember this for certain; I’m not a driver or guard who signs the route, but am relying on what I can remember from observation as a passenger). It’s academic anyway, as the 73/9s have a maximum speed of 90mph, and the sleeper is normally timed at 80.

The line speed for hauled stock on large stretches of the HML (which has differential speed limits in some places for hauled stock vs. HSTs/units) is generally 75mph- there are definitely stretches which allow hauled stock to run faster than this, but (from what I remember) these are fairly short, and do not allow much in the way of high-speed running (not that the sleeper, the only remaining loco-hauled train on that route, normally needs this). A 75mph-restricted Class 66 will not lose any time on the schedule between Perth and Inverness. Perhaps a pair of 73/9s could reach 85/90mph on a few short stretches for a short while if needed when running late, but I very much doubt they’d be able to sustain this speed. South of Perth there is much greater scope for running above 80mph in case of late running.
In reality if you look at the timetable with its frequent stops scope for saving time by increasing speed must be minimal/ non existent when you consider how long it will take the 8 coach train to accelerate from a stop and before having to de-accelerate for the next stop.
 

John Bishop

Member
Joined
15 Nov 2018
Messages
180
Location
Perth
I may be wrong, but I thought that the 100mph stretch between Kingussie and Kincraig was for HSTs and units only, not hauled stock (I seem to think that the line speed is 90mph Kingussie-Kincraig for hauled stock, then 75mph through Kincraig, then 85mph Kincraig-Aviemore- but I can’t remember this for certain; I’m not a driver or guard who signs the route, but am relying on what I can remember from observation as a passenger). It’s academic anyway, as the 73/9s have a maximum speed of 90mph, and the sleeper is normally timed at 80.

The line speed for hauled stock on large stretches of the HML (which has differential speed limits in some places for hauled stock vs. HSTs/units) is generally 75mph- there are definitely stretches which allow hauled stock to run faster than this, but (from what I remember) these are fairly short, and do not allow much in the way of high-speed running (not that the sleeper, the only remaining loco-hauled train on that route, normally needs this). A 75mph-restricted Class 66 will not lose any time on the schedule between Perth and Inverness. Perhaps a pair of 73/9s could reach 85/90mph on a few short stretches for a short while if needed when running late, but I very much doubt they’d be able to sustain this speed. South of Perth there is much greater scope for running above 80mph in case of late running.
No, it’s for all classes of train on that stretch. There’s plenty of differential speeds further south but not up to 100mph.
 

47271

Established Member
Joined
28 Apr 2015
Messages
2,823
No, it’s for all classes of train on that stretch. There’s plenty of differential speeds further south but not up to 100mph.
That's right, and the whole point of the Kincraig 100mph stretch, which has been in the place since the early 1980s, is that it's dead straight but only over three or four miles as @paul1609 says. It's a flash in the pan.

Anyway, talk of top speeds on the sleeper is academic given how slack the timings are. And speaking as someone who used to regularly experience 100mph running to make up time on the mk3s, I really don't recommend it as a good night's rest in a mk5 with its knocking bogies and other deficiencies. 87mph is more than enough thank you.
 

TimboM

Established Member
Joined
12 Apr 2016
Messages
3,664
In reality if you look at the timetable with its frequent stops scope for saving time by increasing speed must be minimal/ non existent when you consider how long it will take the 8 coach train to accelerate from a stop and before having to de-accelerate for the next stop.
I'd also expect with plenty of stops/starts and steep inclines the extra 1,700hp (53% more) and extra two axles the 66/73 combo provides vs 2x 73s is likely to be as useful for keeping decent time (if not more useful) than a slightly higher top speed.
 

paul1609

Established Member
Joined
28 Jan 2006
Messages
4,043
Location
Wittersham Kent
Ive never been to Inverness on the sleeper but was a regular user of the West Highland Sleeper until a year ago. The West highland with a 73/9 can pull back a huge amount of time. Ive been on a Down service that was 1hr 30 late leaving Fort William due to rolling stock issues but only about 10 down approaching Edinburgh. I suspect that the inability to recover time on the Inverness portion is the pathing and crossing moves rather than a lack of horsepower.
 

MrEd

Member
Joined
13 Jan 2019
Messages
352
Ive never been to Inverness on the sleeper but was a regular user of the West Highland Sleeper until a year ago. The West highland with a 73/9 can pull back a huge amount of time. Ive been on a Down service that was 1hr 30 late leaving Fort William due to rolling stock issues but only about 10 down approaching Edinburgh. I suspect that the inability to recover time on the Inverness portion is the pathing and crossing moves rather than a lack of horsepower.
In my experience, if the northbound Inverness portion reaches the start of the single line section at Stanley Junction more than about 30 minutes late, it will continue to get later and later until it is well over an hour down, because southbound traffic on the single line sections has to be taken into account, and this understandably has priority because of the potential for knock-on delays south of Perth and in the Central Belt. Back in late August 2017, I remember the down Inverness (hauled by 67020) leaving Perth around 45 late (it had left Euston around 80 late due to issues the previous night, hauled by 92033), ending up 121 late at Aviemore then finally arriving at Inverness 112 late at 10.30. I think that the sleeper that morning lost 20 minutes at Stanley Junction, then a further 20 minutes at Pitlochry waiting for the southbound Scotrail 170s, then a sizeable time at Dalwhinnie waiting for the southbound Highland Chieftain. I have a vague memory of the 67 being unusually sluggish in climbing to Druimuachdar that morning- perhaps railhead conditions were an issue, as it didn’t perform badly (as far as I could tell) on any other sections of the route. I think we then had to wait at Aviemore to pass the 08:45 Inverness-Glasgow, and at Tomatin to pass the 09:41 Inverness-Edinburgh. I don’t think it would have mattered one jot if the driver of the 67 had exceeded 80mph where line speeds permitted that morning.

The Fort William portion still follows Class 67 timings from the days of slam-door stock, which were designed to allow the 67 to slow to walking pace to cross certain viaducts on the WHL when that class was first introduced on the Fort William sleeper in 2006. The 73 does not need to slow for any of these structures, so can often make up a considerable amount of time (at least 15 minutes, if not more) between Helensburgh and Fort William alone. This is particularly the case now that slam-door stock has been eliminated, as dwell times can probably be reduced by a minute or two here or there.
 

route:oxford

Established Member
Joined
1 Nov 2008
Messages
4,949
With load 8 and the sleepers route/ stopping pattern I'd suggest you'd need an awful lot of installed horsepower to reach 100 mph on most of the Scotrail 100 mph sections. Triple headed 67s?
Are you sure?

Let's think of an technically impossible incident. The coupler at the last coach fails, as does the brakes just as the loco is reaching the top of the Cairney Braes (near Gleneagles) and the coach start running backwards towards Stirling from an elevation of 140 metres. The Forth Bridge at Stirling has an elevation of 6 metres

EP=mgh - so that's 43,000 x 9.81 x 134

A potential energy of 56,525,220 joules.

Ek= ½MV² - so V² = 56,525,220/21,500 or 2629. Velocity equals 51 metres per second.

51 metres per second is 183kph

183kph is 114mph

Obviously there's all kinds of things like wind resistance and friction to consider, but if gravity can potentially take a coach to 100mph, even a Class 67 could manage.
 

paul1609

Established Member
Joined
28 Jan 2006
Messages
4,043
Location
Wittersham Kent
Are you sure?

Let's think of an technically impossible incident. The coupler at the last coach fails, as does the brakes just as the loco is reaching the top of the Cairney Braes (near Gleneagles) and the coach start running backwards towards Stirling from an elevation of 140 metres. The Forth Bridge at Stirling has an elevation of 6 metres

EP=mgh - so that's 43,000 x 9.81 x 134

A potential energy of 56,525,220 joules.

Ek= ½MV² - so V² = 56,525,220/21,500 or 2629. Velocity equals 51 metres per second.

51 metres per second is 183kph

183kph is 114mph

Obviously there's all kinds of things like wind resistance and friction to consider, but if gravity can potentially take a coach to 100mph, even a Class 67 could manage.
Unfortunately the sleepers are scheduled to stop at Dunblane ;)
 

47271

Established Member
Joined
28 Apr 2015
Messages
2,823
Are you sure?

Let's think of an technically impossible incident. The coupler at the last coach fails, as does the brakes just as the loco is reaching the top of the Cairney Braes (near Gleneagles) and the coach start running backwards towards Stirling from an elevation of 140 metres. The Forth Bridge at Stirling has an elevation of 6 metres

EP=mgh - so that's 43,000 x 9.81 x 134

A potential energy of 56,525,220 joules.

Ek= ½MV² - so V² = 56,525,220/21,500 or 2629. Velocity equals 51 metres per second.

51 metres per second is 183kph

183kph is 114mph

Obviously there's all kinds of things like wind resistance and friction to consider, but if gravity can potentially take a coach to 100mph, even a Class 67 could manage.
Very good.

The closest that reality has ever come to your fantasy is this incident on Slochd in 2015, made all the better by the poster's amusing turn of phrase.


When you were considering your unpowered acceleration did you have in mind a piano falling from a skyscraper?
 

TimboM

Established Member
Joined
12 Apr 2016
Messages
3,664
The closest that reality has ever come to your fantasy is this incident on Slochd in 2015, made all the better by the poster's amusing turn of phrase.

Remains one of the best posts on the Sleeper on here. Been downhill ever since... ;)
 

The_Train

Established Member
Joined
2 Jun 2018
Messages
2,560
1S25 seems to be have come to an unplanned halt just short of Colton Jn according to the Freightmaster/Railcam maps
 

Clansman

Established Member
Joined
4 Jan 2016
Messages
2,152
Unfortunately the sleepers are scheduled to stop at Dunblane ;)
Not uncommon for the driver to get a clear run through to Perth if nobody is booked on for Dunblane or Gleneagles.

In my experience, if the northbound Inverness portion reaches the start of the single line section at Stanley Junction more than about 30 minutes late, it will continue to get later and later until it is well over an hour down, because southbound traffic on the single line sections has to be taken into account, and this understandably has priority because of the potential for knock-on delays south of Perth and in the Central Belt. Back in late August 2017, I remember the down Inverness (hauled by 67020) leaving Perth around 45 late (it had left Euston around 80 late due to issues the previous night, hauled by 92033), ending up 121 late at Aviemore then finally arriving at Inverness 112 late at 10.30. I think that the sleeper that morning lost 20 minutes at Stanley Junction, then a further 20 minutes at Pitlochry waiting for the southbound Scotrail 170s, then a sizeable time at Dalwhinnie waiting for the southbound Highland Chieftain. I have a vague memory of the 67 being unusually sluggish in climbing to Druimuachdar that morning- perhaps railhead conditions were an issue, as it didn’t perform badly (as far as I could tell) on any other sections of the route. I think we then had to wait at Aviemore to pass the 08:45 Inverness-Glasgow, and at Tomatin to pass the 09:41 Inverness-Edinburgh. I don’t think it would have mattered one jot if the driver of the 67 had exceeded 80mph where line speeds permitted that morning.

The Fort William portion still follows Class 67 timings from the days of slam-door stock, which were designed to allow the 67 to slow to walking pace to cross certain viaducts on the WHL when that class was first introduced on the Fort William sleeper in 2006. The 73 does not need to slow for any of these structures, so can often make up a considerable amount of time (at least 15 minutes, if not more) between Helensburgh and Fort William alone. This is particularly the case now that slam-door stock has been eliminated, as dwell times can probably be reduced by a minute or two here or there.
Funnily enough around that same time I was on a 170 to Inverness one morning which overtook what was a very late Sleeper at Carrbridge. Strangely enough nobody thought to notify those onboard who may have been in a rush, who instead looked on in dismay. Personally I'd be grateful for the lie in!

At times a single 67 hauling a rake of 8 coaches up the Slochd felt like playing Russian roullette with punctuality and reliability.
 
Last edited:

theironroad

Established Member
Joined
21 Nov 2014
Messages
3,173
Location
London
Not uncommon for the driver to get a clear run through to Perth if nobody is booked on for Dunblane or Gleneagles.


Funnily enough around that same time I was on a 170 to Inverness one morning which overtook what was a very late Sleeper at Carrbridge. Strangely enough nobody thought to notify those onboard who may have been in a rush, who instead looked on in dismay. Personally I'd be grateful for the lie in!

At times a single 67 hauling a rake of 8 coaches up the Slochd felt like playing Russian roullette with punctuality and reliability.
If I wasn't trying to be somewhere I'd probably take the lie in too, but trains to catch to Wick and Kyle, ferries to Lewis, cars to pick up, mountains to climb in daylight all mean many people just need to get going and people who've been in London for the day etc and have to be back at work in the morning.
 

paul1609

Established Member
Joined
28 Jan 2006
Messages
4,043
Location
Wittersham Kent
If I wasn't trying to be somewhere I'd probably take the lie in too, but trains to catch to Wick and Kyle, ferries to Lewis, cars to pick up, mountains to climb in daylight all mean many people just need to get going and people who've been in London for the day etc and have to be back at work in the morning.
To be overtaken by a northbound Scotrail service at Carrbridge the sleeper needs to be at least 2 hours late. To be honest I doubt many people returning from london would be planning to go to work at that stage. Watching a programme on the tv about the Jacobite last night the guard was saying that 95% of the passengers were foreign tourists. My experience of the West Highland sleeper is that 95% of the passengers are tourists. I can see that on the Inverness portion there are probably business customers from the intermediate stations where there is no air service but Id imagine that by far the majority of people travelling to Inverness are tourists who are planning to have a day there.
 

Caleb2010

Member
Joined
25 Nov 2015
Messages
209
Location
Dufftown
Couple of notes on the last few posts!

Although I've been on the Inverness sleeper with tourists - obviously, I wouldn't say that the majority by far of passengers were said tourists. I'd say slight!

Quite a few, like myself use it as a convenient way to travel, it's enabling me to change in London for other destinations, or on the return it saves me a hotel and day train north.

Until recently it was a cost effective way to travel too!

For people arriving in Inverness at 08.40 going to work is just about right, me - it's spot on for the 0900 connection, but I'm usually in the minority. 2 hours late, for me it's not a problem - I'll get the 11.00, but I can see the problem with those that work, can't do it from the train due to the mobile signal around the cairngorm area being non exhistant.

In regards to punctuality - The sleeper used to be well known for running late, I've been on it when we've crawled into Inverness just before midday a few times, none of these times were the fault of CS, all were outside of their control.
I've never been subject to the failings of a 67, come to think of it traction when I've travelled has always worked fine, its always been Signalling, Wires Down, lineside fires, viaducts being washed away - that sort of thing.

Arrival times (when it runs) appear to be much improved - less late running. However there are far more cancelled journeys than there used to be.

I'd still worry therefore that if I was going to London shopping or visiting people, leaving say, on a Monday night - getting back on a Wednesday morning, that one way or the other I'd end up either waking up in the same place I boarded, and losing a day or ending up on a coach, with similar results.

Maybe it's a particular day of the week thing, I normally travel, or try and travel, on days when the Inverness crew work it, I'm lucky I can travel when I want to like that.

Sorry its a bit of a ramble - the lockdown is taking effect! Ha ha-he he!
 

paul1609

Established Member
Joined
28 Jan 2006
Messages
4,043
Location
Wittersham Kent
Couple of notes on the last few posts!

Although I've been on the Inverness sleeper with tourists - obviously, I wouldn't say that the majority by far of passengers were said tourists. I'd say slight!

Quite a few, like myself use it as a convenient way to travel, it's enabling me to change in London for other destinations, or on the return it saves me a hotel and day train north.

Until recently it was a cost effective way to travel too!

For people arriving in Inverness at 08.40 going to work is just about right, me - it's spot on for the 0900 connection, but I'm usually in the minority. 2 hours late, for me it's not a problem - I'll get the 11.00, but I can see the problem with those that work, can't do it from the train due to the mobile signal around the cairngorm area being non exhistant.

In regards to punctuality - The sleeper used to be well known for running late, I've been on it when we've crawled into Inverness just before midday a few times, none of these times were the fault of CS, all were outside of their control.
I've never been subject to the failings of a 67, come to think of it traction when I've travelled has always worked fine, its always been Signalling, Wires Down, lineside fires, viaducts being washed away - that sort of thing.

Arrival times (when it runs) appear to be much improved - less late running. However there are far more cancelled journeys than there used to be.

I'd still worry therefore that if I was going to London shopping or visiting people, leaving say, on a Monday night - getting back on a Wednesday morning, that one way or the other I'd end up either waking up in the same place I boarded, and losing a day or ending up on a coach, with similar results.

Maybe it's a particular day of the week thing, I normally travel, or try and travel, on days when the Inverness crew work it, I'm lucky I can travel when I want to like that.

Sorry its a bit of a ramble - the lockdown is taking effect! Ha ha-he he!
To be honest I'm surprised that you travel via Inverness if you live in Dufftown as your profile suggests. I think that people on this forum are rail enthusiasts and will try and find a way to do interesting journeys by rail. Until a year ago I used to commute between home (Romney Marsh) and Faslane naval Base most weekends when I wasn't deployed. I did this by a mixture of Air/ Rail and by Car. If I hadn't been a rail enthusiast I wouldn't have used the sleeper. In something like 6 years of fairly frequent use I never saw anybody else get on or off at Garelochead or Dalmuir. The other regulars on the train I could count on the fingers of one hand and still have fingers left over and I would occasionally see those sleeper regulars at Glasgow Airport as well. On the West Highland sleeper there are probably more rail staff on a priv jolly than there are normal passengers its for all purposes tourist.
 

Caleb2010

Member
Joined
25 Nov 2015
Messages
209
Location
Dufftown
It's far less hassle for me going via Inverness than Aberdeen!

If I don't use a car I can only get to Elgin on public transport, there I'm only 40 minutes away from Inverness but still an hour and a half from Aberdeen!

Plus there's family in Inverness for a meal before leaving on the sleeper in the evening!

I can't fly (medical) driving that distance would be a dangerous thing for other road users - so the sleeper is a great way to get about
 

MrEd

Member
Joined
13 Jan 2019
Messages
352
To be honest I'm surprised that you travel via Inverness if you live in Dufftown as your profile suggests. I think that people on this forum are rail enthusiasts and will try and find a way to do interesting journeys by rail. Until a year ago I used to commute between home (Romney Marsh) and Faslane naval Base most weekends when I wasn't deployed. I did this by a mixture of Air/ Rail and by Car. If I hadn't been a rail enthusiast I wouldn't have used the sleeper. In something like 6 years of fairly frequent use I never saw anybody else get on or off at Garelochead or Dalmuir. The other regulars on the train I could count on the fingers of one hand and still have fingers left over and I would occasionally see those sleeper regulars at Glasgow Airport as well. On the West Highland sleeper there are probably more rail staff on a priv jolly than there are normal passengers its for all purposes tourist.
I think you’ve hit the nail on the head there. I‘m a relatively frequent traveller between Cambridge and the Kyle of Lochalsh area and always make that journey using the sleeper, travelling from Cambridge down to London, then from Euston to either Spean Bridge or Inverness (alternating between the two), then either from Inverness to Kyle on the train or using the Citylink bus from Spean. I wouldn‘t myself consider using any means other than the sleeper to make that journey, but I need to bear in mind that it was my interest in railways that drew me to the sleeper in the first place and encouraged me to keep using it- I reckon that a lot of folk wanting to do the same journey (who had no especial interest in railways) would probably just get a flight from Luton to Inverness then travel across to Kyle/hire a car at Inverness. They might use the sleeper for the occasional treat, but would be unlikely to use it regularly, not least given the fares charged nowadays (and the fact that good sleep might not be guaranteed). I see very few of what I would call ‘regular travellers‘ on either the Inverness or the Fort William these days.
 

Bald Rick

Veteran Member
Joined
28 Sep 2010
Messages
13,686
I think you’ve hit the nail on the head there. I‘m a relatively frequent traveller between Cambridge and the Kyle of Lochalsh area and always make that journey using the sleeper, travelling from Cambridge down to London, then from Euston to either Spean Bridge or Inverness (alternating between the two), then either from Inverness to Kyle on the train or using the Citylink bus from Spean. I wouldn‘t myself consider using any means other than the sleeper to make that journey, but I need to bear in mind that it was my interest in railways that drew me to the sleeper in the first place and encouraged me to keep using it- I reckon that a lot of folk wanting to do the same journey (who had no especial interest in railways) would probably just get a flight from Luton to Inverness then travel across to Kyle/hire a car at Inverness. They might use the sleeper for the occasional treat, but would be unlikely to use it regularly, not least given the fares charged nowadays (and the fact that good sleep might not be guaranteed). I see very few of what I would call ‘regular travellers‘ on either the Inverness or the Fort William these days.
When I’m heading from Hertfordshire to ‘the road to Skye’ area, I do one of two things:

1) leave home around 1630, get the 1730 off Euston, stay in Glasgow and pick up a hire car early the next morning, arriving somewhere around 11-1130. Then fly back from Glasgow or Inverness.

2) leave home around 1900 and drive, staying somewhere at a Travelodge on the M6 near Carlisle; arriving roughly the same time.

As long standing railway staff, I get the sleeper ‘very cheap’; for me it’s not about cost, but about overall comfort. I would take 10 hours driving over 10 hours on the sleeper any day. The new sleeper is better than the old, but I certainly don’t feel as rested as in a hotel, even allowing for the drive.
 

paul1609

Established Member
Joined
28 Jan 2006
Messages
4,043
Location
Wittersham Kent
When I’m heading from Hertfordshire to ‘the road to Skye’ area, I do one of two things:

1) leave home around 1630, get the 1730 off Euston, stay in Glasgow and pick up a hire car early the next morning, arriving somewhere around 11-1130. Then fly back from Glasgow or Inverness.

2) leave home around 1900 and drive, staying somewhere at a Travelodge on the M6 near Carlisle; arriving roughly the same time.

As long standing railway staff, I get the sleeper ‘very cheap’; for me it’s not about cost, but about overall comfort. I would take 10 hours driving over 10 hours on the sleeper any day. The new sleeper is better than the old, but I certainly don’t feel as rested as in a hotel, even allowing for the drive.
Thats where rail generally falls down, whilst it can offer great headline city centre to city centre journey times its not so good on real journeys. Door to door journey times for me to Faslane Daytime rail (and bus/ taxi) is no quicker than driving, hire car/plane/bus is about 3 hours quicker, sleeper a couple of hours longer.
 

BRX

Established Member
Joined
20 Oct 2008
Messages
2,530
Faslane is hardly a typical destination though. Anything involving the west highland line is going to be slow.
 

43 302

Member
Joined
25 Oct 2019
Messages
853
Location
Bristol
Just watch a video from a few months ago of the Inverness sleeper being hauled by a 73 with a 47. I would assume this is a rare substitution as I thought it was just 73s and maybe 66s but then it carries their new livery. Anyone know anything about this?
 

Top