Caledonian Sleeper

[BRX]

The issue only arises at Terminal Stations, its pretty easy to see that nearly everybody alights when the train arrives in my opinion.

Well, of course they do if the staff have told them that's what they have to do.

And I think it's fair to say that a large proportion of sleeper journeys finish at a terminal station.

 

[norbitonflyer]

Well, of course they do if the staff have told them that's what they have to do.

And I think it's fair to say that a large proportion of sleeper journeys finish at a terminal station.

Indeed - wandering around Edinburgh in the rain waiting for somewhere to open where you can get breakfast is no fun. (Festival time, so none of the hotels were serving breakfast to non-residents).

Learned our lesson, and took the sleeper to Glasgow the following year - price was cheaper, even after paying for a single from Glasgow to Edinburgh. Breakfast on the Voyager, and arrived in Auld Reekie at a sensible time.

 

[JamieL]

I agree. For me a benefit of the sleeper is to get a descent nights sleep (I sleep easily on sleepers) so being booted out unnecessarily early rules out this "hotel on wheels". An example of a rubbish service reality at odds with the publicity. Unforgivable.

Which parts of the service do you find "rubbish" and why?

 

[Bletchleyite]

Which parts of the service do you find "rubbish" and why?

Claiming that you can kip in and then not allowing it is a pretty good example!

 

[Sleepy]

If there's an operational reason to leave the train early as a one off that's fine but if it's just become custom and practice then it needs sorting.

 

[Bletchleyite]

If there's an operational reason to leave the train early as a one off that's fine but if it's just become custom and practice then it needs sorting.

I'd expect to be compensated even for that reason. A rude, rushed awakening without warning isn't OK. Remember the key product isn't just travel but a good night's kip.

I'd only consider it acceptable if warned the night before.

 

[JamieL]

Claiming that you can kip in and then not allowing it is a pretty good example!

I don't find that very convincing personally - the reason for using the sleeper is to get to your destination nice and early, not be be lounging in bed. Still, that's one, but what other reasons are which make it a really "rubbish" Service?

 

[zwk500]

Essentially, somebody at CS head office needs to work out if they can actually deliver what they advertise and if they can, brief the staff to stick to the times advertised and if they can't then brief the marketing team to change the adverts.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I don't find that very convincing personally - the reason for using the sleeper is to get to your destination nice and early, not be be lounging in bed.

I'm sorry, that's rubbish. There are lots of reasons to use it.

Just about the worst thing in the world is a sanctimonious early starter!

Essentially, somebody at CS head office needs to work out if they can actually deliver what they advertise and if they can, brief the staff to stick to the times advertised and if they can't then brief the marketing team to change the adverts.

Yep. Setting expectations correctly is key. Underpromise and overdeliver, every single time. Any business that doesn't will end up reviled in time.

 

[JamieL]

I'm sorry, that's rubbish. There are lots of reasons to use it.

Just about the worst thing in the world is a sanctimonious early starter!



Yep. Setting expectations correctly is key. Underpromise and overdeliver, every single time. Any business that doesn't will end up reviled in time.

...and yet the CS is anything but after around 150 years. I am sure it would be nice to have the train sitting there all day but the reality is you can block a platform just for a handful of layabouts. Its a train, a means of transport, not a hostel for the homeless. Get up, get out and enjoy your destination! You will feel better for it.

 

[Bletchleyite]

...and yet the CS is anything but after around 150 years. I am sure it would be nice to have the train sitting there all day but the reality is you can block a platform just for a handful of layabouts.

I refer to my comment about sanctimonious early starters.

But again, it is about setting the correct expectations. If that service is not offered consistently then it should not be advertised.

Would you consider it OK if the staff knocked on the door at 9am and kicked you out of your Premier Inn room with only minutes to grab your stuff, when checkout is advertised to be 12? I'd expect a full refund if that happened - and PI likely would refund in full, too.

 

[Trainbike46]

...and yet the CS is anything but after around 150 years. I am sure it would be nice to have the train sitting there all day but the reality is you can block a platform just for a handful of layabouts. Its a train, a means of transport, not a hostel for the homeless. Get up, get out and enjoy your destination! You will feel better for it.

no matter what your opinion is on how long people should have to disembark after arrival, the marketing should match reality as far as possible

 

[Bletchleyite]

no matter what your opinion is on how long people should have to disembark after arrival, the marketing should match reality as far as possible

Exactly. If it said nothing, you'd assume you had to disembark on arrival like every other train, so you'd be up and ready.

Only a bad business advertises things it can't consistently deliver.

 

[Davester50]

I don't find that very convincing personally - the reason for using the sleeper is to get to your destination nice and early, not be be lounging in bed. Still, that's one, but what other reasons are which make it a really "rubbish" Service?

Really? I don't want to have to wake up at Rugby or MK, when I can wake up at Hemel Hempstead or Watford if it's running early or on time.
The hovering steward eager for me to move so they can get to home or digs isn't going to make me move any faster, but it's not good service to hassle people out the door.

...and yet the CS is anything but after around 150 years.

The market has changed, and it's going after high disposable income tourists, (the marketing is aimed to that market), and no longer a public service to get to London early.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Really? I don't want to have to wake up at Rugby or MK, when I can wake up at Hemel Hempstead or Watford if it's running early or on time.
The hovering steward eager for me to move so they can get to home or digs isn't going to make me move any faster, but it's not good service to hassle people out the door.

As is collecting in cups before arrival (don't know if they still do that). Paper cups would be better than that.

 

[JamieL]

no matter what your opinion is on how long people should have to disembark after arrival, the marketing should match reality as far as possible

Really? I don't want to have to wake up at Rugby or MK, when I can wake up at Hemel Hempstead or Watford if it's running early or on time.
The hovering steward eager for me to move so they can get to home or digs isn't going to make me move any faster, but it's not good service to hassle people out the door.



The market has changed, and it's going after high disposable income tourists, (the marketing is aimed to that market), and no longer a public service to get to London early.

Well, I use it to get to my destination early - and given that many others disembark on arrival I am far from alone.

The CS literature only really mentions disembarkation times on the timetables. Its hardly a pledge.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Well, I use it to get to my destination early - and given that many others disembark on arrival I am far from alone.

And I ride trains for fun, so I'd imagine do most on here, however plenty of people don't.

However, I have a massive problem with businesses not delivering what they advertise.

 

[Davester50]

As is collecting in cups before arrival (don't know if they still do that). Paper cups would be better than that.

I've stopped taking the morning DIY coffee nor go to lounge.

Well, I use it to get to my destination early - and given that many others disembark on arrival I am far from alone.

And I ride trains for fun, so I'd imagine do most on here, however plenty of people don't.

I use it for business.

However, I have a massive problem with businesses not delivering what they advertise.

I agree. Early running on the lowlander and getting woken early for being turfed out early is not a Hotel (on wheels).

Too many people romanticize about the sleeper. It wouldn't make much sense inventing it now, but the move from an essential service to an "experience" really hasn't helped.

 

[Cheshire Scot]

I am sure it would be nice to have the train sitting there all day but the reality is you can block a platform just for a handful of layabouts

The train is is not actually blocking that platform if it is timetabled to occupy it for a given length of time.

 

[Peter Sarf]

Which parts of the service do you find "rubbish" and why?

Advertising one think and persistently not delivering on it - the time you can stay in bed till.

Claiming that you can kip in and then not allowing it is a pretty good example!

Exactly.

If there's an operational reason to leave the train early as a one off that's fine but if it's just become custom and practice then it needs sorting.

Exactly - things do go wrong. But in te case of being kicked out of bed earlier then advertised it is a persistent problem.

I don't find that very convincing personally - the reason for using the sleeper is to get to your destination nice and early, not be be lounging in bed. Still, that's one, but what other reasons are which make it a really "rubbish" Service?

It does not matter what you or anyone else uses the sleeper for and what time they want to get out of bed. The problem is the misrepresentation of the service actually provided - in this case the time you have to vacate your room is in practice a lot earlier than advertised.

Essentially, somebody at CS head office needs to work out if they can actually deliver what they advertise and if they can, brief the staff to stick to the times advertised and if they can't then brief the marketing team to change the adverts.

Exactly - I think it indicates that CS is not being run very well.

...and yet the CS is anything but after around 150 years. I am sure it would be nice to have the train sitting there all day but the reality is you can block a platform just for a handful of layabouts. Its a train, a means of transport, not a hostel for the homeless. Get up, get out and enjoy your destination! You will feel better for it.

The train is booked to occupy the platform for long enough. Only sometimes are there reasons for a change to that. The problem is the staff on the front line are getting people off the train long before it leaves the platform and contrary to the promise made.

Exactly. If it said nothing, you'd assume you had to disembark on arrival like every other train, so you'd be up and ready.

Only a bad business advertises things it can't consistently deliver.

It really does indicate, as a minimum, how out of touch the management might be.

Well, I use it to get to my destination early - and given that many others disembark on arrival I am far from alone.

The CS literature only really mentions disembarkation times on the timetables. Its hardly a pledge.

It is an indication of the service to be provided. If, as you assert, the disembarkation time in the timetable is so unimportant then REMOVE the misrepresentation of the facts.

Why is that information about disembarkation time there ?.

 

[driverd]

Claiming that you can kip in and then not allowing it is a pretty good example!

Perfect example. I was travelling to be a crank and booked the lowlander as an exception - purely because the advertised vacate time in Galsgow was 08.45. If I'd have known in advance that the reality would be 07.00 in Edinburgh, even with an, admittedly, earlier arrival in Glasgow, I would have either a) changed my plans and booked the Inverness or Fort Bill so I could sleep properly or b) booked a hotel and travelled up in the day.

The night riviera isn't a service worth using for me, because I don't find it long enough to guarantee a sensible/healthy amount of sleep. Added to that is the panic/anxiety of possibly having a host awake you whilst in nothing more than underware (at best), and usher you out of the room quicker than you can say "atleast let me sort my hair".

...and yet the CS is anything but after around 150 years. I am sure it would be nice to have the train sitting there all day but the reality is you can block a platform just for a handful of layabouts.

Others refer to them as customers...

Lovely, poor arguement, as the lowland sleeper is booked to sit in the platform to allow an 08.00 vacation. The timetable and platform space is there.

Its a train, a means of transport, not a hostel for the homeless. Get up, get out and enjoy your destination! You will feel better for it.

No, I wouldn't feel better for it. I'd feel like trash by 11 o'clock, want my bed by 13.00 and be asleep on the train I was supposed to be enjoying the view from by 15.00 (as was the case). I cut short my trip because I was exhausted. Not everyone is you and because the sleeper offers a service that makes it appealing to me, I don't expect to be told I have to leave 2 hours earlier than advertised.

As I say, I don't feel super agreived by the service because I was (at circa 1800 the night before), given the option to cancel. Admittedly, cancellation would have left me in a bit of a bind with money wasted the next day and part of the lack of sleep was me not being able to sleep (because I don't always sleep on a sleeper), but if given notice earlier or indeed if an 0650 Edinburgh arrival was advertised at the time of booking, I wouldn't have booked.

 

[xotGD]

The above posts explain why I describe these services as "Overnights" rather than "Sleepers".

Expect to arrive feeling like crap, rather than fully rested.

 

[185143]

I've never had a room on the Lowlander.

Don't see the point paying the high fares for the amount of time you're actually onboard for, particularly if you want food and drink in the evening which I nearly always do.

I think every time I've woken up significantly after our arrival at either Euston or Edinburgh. Though always been 40 early at Euston admittedly. Never been hurried off at all. The only time I've seen staff was when I arrived into Edinburgh; the TM walked past as I woke up and simply said "Morning Sir" and left me to get off at my leisure. Think I was the only one left in the carriage.

 

[driverd]

I've never had a room on the Lowlander.

Don't see the point paying the high fares for the amount of time you're actually onboard for, particularly if you want food and drink in the evening which I nearly always do.

In honesty, as a rule of thumb I would generally agree - I think it would be nice to embark earlier (or atleast have the option to), but I presume platform space at Euston prevents this.

I think every time I've woken up significantly after our arrival at either Euston or Edinburgh. Though always been 40 early at Euston admittedly. Never been hurried off at all. The only time I've seen staff was when I arrived into Edinburgh; the TM walked past as I woke up and simply said "Morning Sir" and left me to get off at my leisure. Think I was the only one left in the carriage.

Its good to know this isn't a trend - I don't mean my post to come across as critical especially - I feel the disruption was well managed and the staff all very polite and friendly (as per, on the sleeper). I just like my sleep.

 

[JamieL]

No, I wouldn't feel better for it. I'd feel like trash by 11 o'clock, want my bed by 13.00 and be asleep on the train I was supposed to be enjoying the view from by 15.00 (as was the case). I cut short my trip because I was exhausted. Not everyone is you and because the sleeper offers a service that makes it appealing to me, I don't expect to be told I have to leave 2 hours earlier than advertised.

How many times has the Sleeper arrived 2+ hours early and discharged their passengers immediately on arrival?

Can I also for the CS material on allowing people to sleep in is posted on the forum? Having had a quick look, the only real reference seems to be the timetable information which suggests a 20-40min period to disembark after arrival.

 

[lachlan]

How many times has the Sleeper arrived 2+ hours early and discharged their passengers immediately on arrival?

Can I also for the CS material on allowing people to sleep in is posted on the forum? Having had a quick look, the only real reference seems to be the timetable information which suggests a 20-40min period to disembark after arrival.

Arrival times are included on the booking confirmation emails.

If CS advertise a 20-40 minute period to disembark that isn’t accurate either as the one time I’ve taken a cabin we were rushed off within five minutes or so of arrival. All other aspects of the service were good.

 

[185143]

Its good to know this isn't a trend - I don't mean my post to come across as critical especially - I feel the disruption was well managed and the staff all very polite and friendly (as per, on the sleeper). I just like my sleep.

That is in reference to the seated coach of course, but I don't see why they would shoo everyone out of the rooms and just leave the seated plebs guests to it.

 

[JamieL]

Arrival times are included on the booking confirmation emails.

If CS advertise a 20-40 minute period to disembark that isn’t accurate either as the one time I’ve taken a cabin we were rushed off within five minutes or so of arrival. All other aspects of the service were good.

Train arrival times are - where is the information about staying onboard after train arrival? I have looked through my emails for my next journey and can't see anything? Can we have some screenshots of the alleged misrepresentation and then at least we have a baseline from which to discuss.

 

[lachlan]

Train arrival times are - where is the information about staying onboard after train arrival? I have looked through my emails for my next journey and can't see anything? Can we have some screenshots of the alleged misrepresentation and then at least we have a baseline from which to discuss.

You said yourself they advertise 20-40 minutes to disembark (though I’ve not seen that personally). That’s misrepresentation right there.

i don’t think it’s unreasonable to expect to be allowed to remain on the train until the posted arrival time, in the event it arrives early. After all, if a hotel says check out by 10am, I wouldn’t want to be kicked out at 9.

 

[JamieL]

You said yourself they advertise 20-40 minutes to disembark (though I’ve not seen that personally). That’s misrepresentation right there.

i don’t think it’s unreasonable to expect to be allowed to remain on the train until the posted arrival time, in the event it arrives early. After all, if a hotel says check out by 10am, I wouldn’t want to be kicked out at 9.

Its a timetable - which we all know can change. Moreover, the website even includes a 'service alterations' page with additional details specific to your date. By way of example, London Euston to Glasgow 22-25 May lists train arrival 0845, vacate rooms by 0845. Based on some of the comments above, there must surely be some specific advertised comments that are getting people wound up? So I ask again, can someone post these so we can discuss facts?