Caledonian Sleeper

[ashkeba]

There are two pages, it's on the second page. Or maybe you're not picking up on how the couchettes are arranged -

Thanks. It's that I failed to recognise it as a bed from the thumbnail, probably due to colour.

 

[BRX]

You can see how Russia does (3rd class) sleepers here

kind of like open sided compartments, and longitudinal bunks on the other side (of course they have a much wider loading gauge than we do)

 

[Highlandspring]

As interesting as this rail geography lesson is, we’re not getting any of these weird and wonderful arrangments. We’re stuck with hotel rooms on wheels and not very comfy looking seats for the next 40 years.

 

[Bletchleyite]

As interesting as this rail geography lesson is, we’re not getting any of these weird and wonderful arrangments. We’re stuck with hotel rooms on wheels and not very comfy looking seats for the next 40 years.

No reason the seats couldn't be replaced, like any other stock. Changing the beds would be much more difficult.

 

[trebor79]

The beds don't need changing, they are quite comfy.

 

[Bletchleyite]

The beds don't need changing, they are quite comfy.

The suggestion wasn't so much to replace them with better beds, but to replace some of them with less comfortable and more crammed-in couchettes. I think the inability in the UK loading gauge to do 3 stacked is probably the issue here, though.

 

[Highlandspring]

I think LMS 3rd class sleeping cars had triple (transverse) bunks didn’t they?

 

[6Z09]

Serco have more urgent issues than all the above!
Industrial action looming,staff morale at a low
RMT to ballot staff.

 

[trebor79]

Wouldn't surprise me. One of the staff, whilst perfectly cheerful, mentioned to me that he felt like he'd spent his while life apologising to people since the new stock came in.

 

[Highlandspring]

I was on the Down Highlander last week. In the lounge car at night the crew spend most of their time in the galley complaining to each other about the new stock and their rosters (hard for me to ignore because I had the single seat table right at the galley door). There were also a lot of questions about the new stock from other passengers and again the crew were not at all complimentary about it. The thing is it’s hard to know from outside to know how much is just anger at change; I’ve seen it many times in my railway employment where some new process or equipment is brought in to huge protests and within 6 months or a year it’s settled in like nothing has changed.

 

[6Z09]

On the RMT website the statement lists issues being;
Staff shortage,insufficient training and lack of management response .

 

[trebor79]

Forgot to say the chap I mentioned was very complimentary about the new stock and characterised the problems leading to all the apologising as teething problems.

 

[alistairlees]

Maybe all the stuff about what might have been / what should have been / how it was on DB / how it is in Japan / etc etc could be moved to a speculative thread? And this thread kept to what’s happening with the franchise today? It’s getting incredibly off topic otherwise. What do the moderators think?

 

[BRX]

I was on the Down Highlander last week. In the lounge car at night the crew spend most of their time in the galley complaining to each other about the new stock and their rosters (hard for me to ignore because I had the single seat table right at the galley door). There were also a lot of questions about the new stock from other passengers and again the crew were not at all complimentary about it. The thing is it’s hard to know from outside to know how much is just anger at change; I’ve seen it many times in my railway employment where some new process or equipment is brought in to huge protests and within 6 months or a year it’s settled in like nothing has changed.

In the past few years I'm not sure I've ever spent an evening in the lounge car and not overheard staff complaining to each other about something or other!

It's not just the new stock but the increasingly failing mk2 seats and lounge coaches.

My last trip down, in the evening the (FTW) lounge car had no hot food and in the morning the (ABD) lounge car was completely out of action (along with the seats). The staff varied from harassed to moderately cheerful, and seemed somewhat to have given up on apologising, sinply stating things as they were - "is it right there's no hot food tonight?" - "Yup". "Any chance of getting a coffee this morning" - "probably not".

I wouldn't be surprised by low morale at the moment.

 

[ashkeba]

Maybe all the stuff about what might have been / what should have been / how it was on DB / how it is in Japan / etc etc could be moved to a speculative thread? And this thread kept to what’s happening with the franchise today? It’s getting incredibly off topic otherwise. What do the moderators think?

We'll probably find out but it seemed to me like that branch had ended until your post...

 

[47271]

Totally all hearsay, but this is what's filtering back to me on the new trains via regulars talking to crew:
- Not enough staff to service the very much more complex stock, and this is one of the reasons for trains leaving the depot late.
- Crew are finding themselves performing uncompleted depot tasks (hoovering, bed making) in the platform, causing further delay.
- Little or no training in complicated new technology, or brief training so long ago that it's been forgotten.
- Vehicles entering service with minimal testing in a live environment so basic faults are being thrown up for the first time with passengers in the mix.
- Crew are subject to unprecedented levels of stress, partly because they don't know what they're doing, partly because so many things are going wrong, and partly because of abuse from angry passengers.

Which is fairly consistent with the RMT's points posted above.

One other thing that's come up a couple of times is that introduction on the Lowlander at the end of April wasn't Serco's choice but was done under some duress from Transport Scotland. Given that they were merrily scrapping mk3s when they were I'm not sure that I entirely believe this.

Sleeper crew are by no means the most militant, the last time that things got to this level was in late 2015 when faults on the old stock had got totally out of hand, so I think that we can assume that it's pretty bad.

Without insider knowledge it's hard to work out why it's become this messy when they had so much time to focus on the process. Here's hoping it starts to come good quickly before they have to deal with the added complexity of the Highlander.

 

[GrimShady]

Have the spare Mk3s actually been scrapped now or still awaiting the torch?

 

[Highlandspring]

The coaches that were taken to Booth’s are razorblades now.. there are pictures online of them being cut. There were Mk2 and Mk3 coaches stabled at Wembley when I passed last week, presumably displaced from the Lowlander.

 

[JModulo]

Tried to book a room on the Sleeper's revamped website, had the ticket in my basket but it then chucked me off the website... After being sent round in circles by the twitter and customer services team I'm still no where. Was first told you can't reserve as its an old train (lowlander). Then told there is empty coaches but they can't be booked due to the possibility of other rooms not being available. Then told by staff they would look into getting a room release and they would phone back, never did, only to then phone back myself and told what was said earlier was a load of rubbish. What an absolute shambles of an operation!

 

[Crepello]

Yeah I'm a little nervous... booked tix online last night, opted for e-tix, nothing received >12 hours later. Emailed them earlier today... "We're busy but will respond within 10 business days", or words to that effect. Card has been charged. How exciting to wonder if I'll be travelling.....

If that's Serco's take on the luxury hotel experience, I'd say the Gleneagles has nothing to worry about.

 

[TimboM]

One other thing that's come up a couple of times is that introduction on the Lowlander at the end of April wasn't Serco's choice but was done under some duress from Transport Scotland. Given that they were merrily scrapping mk3s when they were I'm not sure that I entirely believe this.

I find this very believable. Serco off-leased 8 coaches due major exams/repair that made no sense to do (not 'merrily scrapping') and were still able to operate Load 14 rakes. They'd have lost a bit of capacity building up to the peak season, but not as much as running Mk5s half-empty (judging by what JModulo says above).

Having worked previously for a supplier to a government department, it seems pretty clear to me Transport Scotland put Serco under significant pressure due to political motives to launch the stock on the Lowlander when it clearly wasn't ready. That doesn't escape from the fact Serco have selected a supplier in CAF who've clearly failed to deliver to time or quality.

The revised launch date for the Highlander is another example I believe of an unrealistic date driven by politicians not wanting to lose any more face. Based on the known condition of the stock that is in service and the progress on test runs/preparations on the Highlander routes (limited) a launch in six weeks appears very optimistic and an opportunity missed to announce a realistic date that could be achieved.

Without insider knowledge it's hard to work out why it's become this messy when they had so much time to focus on the process. Here's hoping it starts to come good quickly before they have to deal with the added complexity of the Highlander.

What are you referring to when you say they had so much time to focus on the process? I wouldn't confuse the length of time the stock has been in the UK with the length of time it was actually in a position be used for staff training/familiarisation.

 

[30907]

I think LMS 3rd class sleeping cars had triple (transverse) bunks didn’t they?

They were 4-berth (like 1st class couchettes, but smaller).

 

[WesternLancer]

Yeah I'm a little nervous... booked tix online last night, opted for e-tix, nothing received >12 hours later. Emailed them earlier today... "We're busy but will respond within 10 business days", or words to that effect. Card has been charged. How exciting to wonder if I'll be travelling.....

If that's Serco's take on the luxury hotel experience, I'd say the Gleneagles has nothing to worry about.

Seems odd - I rang the call centre - got offered what I had prev seen on line same price, booked it over phone, gave e-mail - e ticket arrived instantly which I printed off. All fine. This was for a mk3 place on the highlander. Person on phone knew that and answered all my questions as I would have expected.

 

[Struner]

Does Serco still boast that you can book up to a year in advance?
Even when they don't seem to know what stock they'll be using in eight weeks time?

 

[Crepello]

Does Serco still boast that you can book up to a year in advance?
Even when they don't seem to know what stock they'll be using in eight weeks time?

In fairness, the website made it clear that I was booking "classic" accommodation but the plan may change. (I'm booking in late June - specifically because it's Mk 3s. CS was on my bucket list all my adult life, having grown up on Mk 3s. Did Fort Dub last year, loved it. Couldn't resist last chance to bash the Highland Main Line with droplights.)

Thanks to Lancer for that info - I'll give them a call Monday. Am US-based nowadays so was trying to save the overseas call.

 

[trebor79]

@Crepello check your junk/spam folder. I had the same experience as you, then just as I was starting to fret, I got a quarantine notification from my company email system (there's always a delay for some reason).
Weirdly, the payment receipt came through straight away as normal, but mimecast decided to quarantine the actual ticket, despite it being sent from the same address.

 

[cb a1]

@Crepello check your junk/spam folder. I had the same experience as you, then just as I was starting to fret, I got a quarantine notification from my company email system (there's always a delay for some reason).
Weirdly, the payment receipt came through straight away as normal, but mimecast decided to quarantine the actual ticket, despite it being sent from the same address.

I was about to suggest the same. My e-ticket went into the spam folder but not receipt.

 

[JModulo]

5C11 in a bit of bother just before Midcalder Junction. Que forming behind it...

 

[BRX]

Couldn't resist last chance to bash the Highland Main Line with droplights.

Have fun! HML isn't quite as special as the WHL but still a lovely trip (especially northbound when you get it all in daylight). It's also got a class 67 on it which in my opinion is more fun than the 73s. And once they've taken the droplights from us it'll not make much difference what's on the front anyway!

 

[47271]

I find this very believable.

On the basis of what you say, fair enough.

What are you referring to when you say they had so much time to focus on the process? I wouldn't confuse the length of time the stock has been in the UK with the length of time it was actually in a position be used for staff training/familiarisation.

I'm referring to the number of people that they've had seconded to new train implementation and, as I now understand it, the lack of training documentation available to those attempting to operate the trains now. Crew are complaining that they've got nothing to refer to when things go wrong, never mind that they weren't properly trained in the first place.