Caledonian Sleeper

[JohnMcL7]

Anyone know what happened to the Inverness departure tonight? I was waiting at Culloden for it to pass and gave up waiting then checked RTT and it left 49 minutes late.

 

[boom boom]

Anyone know what happened to the Inverness departure tonight? I was waiting at Culloden for it to pass and gave up waiting then checked RTT and it left 49 minutes late.

2015 ScotRail service failed at Cradlehall . Eventually returned to station.

 

[Railguy1]

Why was there a sleeper train stopped at Harrow on Friday 4th Dec?

 

[JonathanH]

Why was there a sleeper train stopped at Harrow on Friday 4th Dec?

In the morning? On that day, the southbound sleeper terminated at Watford Junction due to a person hit by a train so it is possible that the empty stock came to a stop in the Harrow area on its way to Wembley.

https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/C75081/2020-12-03/detailed#allox_id=1

 

[Railguy1]

In the morning? On that day, the southbound sleeper terminated at Watford Junction due to a person hit by a train so it is possible that the empty stock came to a stop in the Harrow area on its way to Wembley.

https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/C75081/2020-12-03/detailed#allox_id=1

Yes, it was around 11 ish in the morning. I think it had stopped there for a while but I could not make out what platform it was on.

 

[JonathanH]

In the morning? On that day, the southbound sleeper terminated at Watford Junction due to a person hit by a train so it is possible that the empty stock came to a stop in the Harrow area on its way to Wembley.

https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/C75081/2020-12-03/detailed#allox_id=1

This suggests that it sat in platform 6 at Harrow & Wealdstone from about 0939 until 1203 when the lines reopened. There is a '5M16' shown at these times - look for 04/12/2020. (This only shows up on the list this far after the event because it wasn't running to a schedule in the system.)

https://trackit.uppyjc.co.uk/TrackI...toRefresh=False&Estimate=False&DisplayMode=TD



You'll note from the RTT link above that it deposited its passengers at 0900 at Watford Junction so it took a fair amount of time to move forward to Harrow & Wealdstone.

 

[OvergroundMatt]

Quick question about the sleeper. I know you can travel with a bicycle if you book it in advance and I have done this before, but how does it work if you want to travel to an intermediate station, or board at an intermediate station. I have had a thought nest year of cycling up the Gaick pass which, if I got the sleeper, would mean disembarking at Blair Atholl, but there is the issue of how to get myself and my bike off the train in a reasonable time given the train will not be the same length as when it left London, so I might have a problem working out which carriage I put it in. Last time I took a bicycle on the sleeper I was travelling from Inverness to London so all I had to do at Euston was ask a member of staff where my bike was because I had miscounted the distance between the bike carriage and my carriage.

I took my bike up to Perth from London a couple of weeks ago. The staff were extremely helpful. The (spacious) bike racks are at the end of the seated coach which was the other side of the Club Car so it wasn't difficult to locate it, even at 5.30am!

 

[221129]

Interesting one this evening, as a 1S24 is booked to run in the same path as 1S25 as far as Carlisle! The only difference after that is an alleged extended wait in Beatock DPL.

I presume this is an error?!

 

[TimboM]

Interesting one this evening, as a 1S24 is booked to run in the same path as 1S25 as far as Carlisle! The only difference after that is an alleged extended wait in Beatock DPL.

I presume this is an error?!

Those additional paths have been in the last few days (and cancelled).

I suspect it was something to do with potential options in the run up to the full services being re-introduced on Thursday night for the run up to Christmas. No plans to use them as far as I know.

 

[221129]

Those additional paths have been in the last few days (and cancelled).

I suspect it was something to do with potential options in the run up to the full services being re-introduced on Thursday night for the run up to Christmas. No plans to use them as far as I know.

It's just showing on journey planners that the Edinburgh portion arrives at 0749 instead of the actual arrival of 0423.

Hopefully it's not used and I dont end up double booked this evening!

 

[alistairlees]

It will all be fine, don’t worry. It’s just to make reservations work

 

[PG]

It will all be fine, don’t worry. It’s just to make reservations work

...and they said computers would make things easier!

 

[Railguy1]

This suggests that it sat in platform 6 at Harrow & Wealdstone from about 0939 until 1203 when the lines reopened. There is a '5M16' shown at these times - look for 04/12/2020. (This only shows up on the list this far after the event because it wasn't running to a schedule in the system.)

https://trackit.uppyjc.co.uk/TrackI...toRefresh=False&Estimate=False&DisplayMode=TD

View attachment 87052

You'll note from the RTT link above that it deposited its passengers at 0900 at Watford Junction so it took a fair amount of time to move forward to Harrow & Wealdstone.

Thanks. It was unfortunate that I was not able to take a photo at the time.

 

[_toommm_]

Does anyone know why the Euston service had just left Preston over two hours late please?

 

[TimboM]

Does anyone know why the Euston service had just left Preston over two hours late please?

It’s actually still there - will now run as ECS direct to Wembley. Issues with the stock I understand.

5M16 Preston - Wembley (when it gets going).

Realtime Trains - 5M16 0730 Preston to Wembley Inter City Depot

Realtime Trains provides live realtime running information for the Great British railway network using open data.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

 

[_toommm_]

It’s actually still there - will now run as ECS direct to Wembley. Issues with the stock I understand.

5M16 Preston - Wembley (when it gets going).

Realtime Trains - 5M16 0730 Preston to Wembley Inter City Depot

Realtime Trains provides live realtime running information for the Great British railway network using open data.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

Ahh thank you. I did wonder whether it had actually left or not.

 

[SteveM70]

So theoretically, just how early could the sleeper leave for Inverness without disrupting any services heading south and still get to Inverness as early as possible? I know this is theoretical as more often than not the Sleeper has "issues".

This isn’t necessarily a good thing, is it? Anybody getting off at a station between Edinburgh and Inverness risks having an alarm set too late, meaning they’d either have a very hurried pack and go, or even miss their stop, and also anyone relying on onward transport would have a potentially lengthy and cold wait.

Surely the objective should be to run on time?!?

 

[paul1609]

This isn’t necessarily a good thing, is it? Anybody getting off at a station between Edinburgh and Inverness risks having an alarm set too late, meaning they’d either have a very hurried pack and go, or even miss their stop, and also anyone relying on onward transport would have a potentially lengthy and cold wait.

Surely the objective should be to run on time?!?

Are there actually many (any) passengers getting off an intermediate stations currently? The Inverness sleeper gets in to the obvious population centres far too early for the service to be of any interest to the average passenger Id have thought.

 

[TimboM]

This isn’t necessarily a good thing, is it? Anybody getting off at a station between Edinburgh and Inverness risks having an alarm set too late, meaning they’d either have a very hurried pack and go, or even miss their stop, and also anyone relying on onward transport would have a potentially lengthy and cold wait.

Surely the objective should be to run on time?!?

The hosts know where the passengers in their coaches are due to alight and ensure they are up in time if the train is running early.

As Paul1609 alludes to, though, the early running on 1S25 north of Edinburgh is only really feasible at the moment with other trains not running due to Covid etc. allowing for earlier paths on the single line section. For the very same reason (Covid etc.) the sleeper isn't going to have a great deal of passengers on it currently, so these earlier times aren't really impacting anyone - as no-one is getting off.

When things get back to something more like normal, there'll be more passengers getting off at the intermediate stations, but other services will be running too, meaning the sleeper is much more likely to be running near enough to its booked time.

Hence, the debate is to a large degree hypothetical as the sleeper can only really run (very) early during 'lockdowns' (or whatever they're called this week) when there's not much running and not many people on board.

 

[47271]

The hosts know where the passengers in their coaches are due to alight and ensure they are up in time if the train is running early.

As Paul1609 alludes to, though, the early running on 1S25 north of Edinburgh is only really feasible at the moment with other trains not running due to Covid etc. allowing for earlier paths on the single line section. For the very same reason (Covid etc.) the sleeper isn't going to have a great deal of passengers on it currently, so these earlier times aren't really impacting anyone - as no-one is getting off.

When things get back to something more like normal, there'll be more passengers getting off at the intermediate stations, but other services will be running too, meaning the sleeper is much more likely to be running near enough to its booked time.

Hence, the debate is to a large degree hypothetical as the sleeper can only really run (very) early during 'lockdowns' (or whatever they're called this week) when there's not much running and not many people on board.

I agree with all of this, but as far as the Highland Main Line is concerned, the services weeded out of the timetable wouldn't have been impacted by early running of the northbound sleeper. In fact the HML has come out of the Scotrail December service reductions very lightly indeed, with only one evening northbound and one mid morning southbound service dropped, and the very early Inverness-Edinburgh (which does cross with the sleeper on the double section between Blair Atholl and Dalwhinnie) stopping short at Perth.

 

[Scotrail84]

I agree with all of this, but as far as the Highland Main Line is concerned, the services weeded out of the timetable wouldn't have been impacted by early running of the northbound sleeper. In fact the HML has come out of the Scotrail December service reductions very lightly indeed, with only one evening northbound and one mid morning southbound service dropped, and the very early Inverness-Edinburgh (which does cross with the sleeper on the double section between Blair Atholl and Dalwhinnie) stopping short at Perth.

Scotrail withdrawing the 09:44 Edinburgh service is ridiculous as the next one is 10:46 and often runs as a single 170, sleeper staff that don't live around inverness use house that service to get home.

The 08:45 to Glasgow QS has been a 2 car 158 recently as well.

 

[Journeyman]

Scotrail withdrawing the 09:44 Edinburgh service is ridiculous as the next one is 10:46 and often runs as a single 170, sleeper staff that don't live around inverness use house that service to get home.

The 08:45 to Glasgow QS has been a 2 car 158 recently as well.

Given that it's illegal to travel outside your local authority area for all but essential reasons right now, I can't see capacity even remotely being a problem.

 

[Scotrail84]

Given that it's illegal to travel outside your local authority area for all but essential reasons right now, I can't see capacity even remotely being a problem.

This is true but nobody is policing it and rail staff have no authority to question anyone on the validity of their journey.

 

[Journeyman]

This is true but nobody is policing it and rail staff have no authority to question anyone on the validity of their journey.

I know that. I'm not expecting rail staff to do that. I'm just saying the numbers travelling at the moment will be tiny.

 

[route101]

This is true but nobody is policing it and rail staff have no authority to question anyone on the validity of their journey.

Loads broke this rule around Glasgow with different authorities around the City.

 

[Scotrail84]

Loads broke this rule around Glasgow with different authorities around the City.

Be interesting to see what the numbers are on the sleeper tonight with this being the first service since the 23rd. Technically there should be no more than single figures given the restrictions throughout the UK.

 

[MrEd]

Be interesting to see what the numbers are on the sleeper tonight with this being the first service since the 23rd. Technically there should be no more than single figures given the restrictions throughout the UK.

I would expect the train to be almost empty given that London, most of the south of England and the whole of Scotland are in tier/level 4 restrictions. Apart from some key workers needing to travel I can’t see how the service would be used by anyone in the present time. Obviously there is the issue of folk travelling to second homes illegally but I like to think that it’s been made very clear to them what the law is under tier/level 4. I also seem to remember that the BTP did some enforcement at Euston during the last full lockdown (perhaps not every night, but occasionally) to ensure that only those with a valid reason to travel on the sleeper (and other long-distance services) did so. Coming up against BTP honestly isn’t worth the risk and it’s a very irresponsible thing to do. I like to think that most folk at both ends of the route are doing the decent thing and staying at home/within a close radius of their home unless travel is essential.

Obviously it’ll be important to keep the sleeper running for those who absolutely need it- but with the restrictions, and given that it is a Sunday night before a bank holiday between Christmas and Hogmanay, I reckon you could count the number of passengers in the Inverness portion on one hand as you could in the spring lockdown when 4 per night was average (and similarly for the Edinburgh).

 

[MotCO]

I would expect the train to be almost empty given that London, most of the south of England and the whole of Scotland are in tier/level 4 restrictions. Apart from some key workers needing to travel I can’t see how the service would be used by anyone in the present time. Obviously there is the issue of folk travelling to second homes illegally but I like to think that it’s been made very clear to them what the law is under tier/level 4. I also seem to remember that the BTP did some enforcement at Euston during the last full lockdown (perhaps not every night, but occasionally) to ensure that only those with a valid reason to travel on the sleeper (and other long-distance services) did so. Coming up against BTP honestly isn’t worth the risk and it’s a very irresponsible thing to do. I like to think that most folk at both ends of the route are doing the decent thing and staying at home/within a close radius of their home unless travel is essential.

Obviously it’ll be important to keep the sleeper running for those who absolutely need it- but with the restrictions, and given that it is a Sunday night before a bank holiday between Christmas and Hogmanay, I reckon you could count the number of passengers in the Inverness portion on one hand as you could in the spring lockdown when 4 per night was average (and similarly for the Edinburgh).

Isn't there also the issue that Mrs Sturgeon has closed the border to the English, so no-one should be travelling on the train? Not sure there are armed guards on the border, though

 

[InOban]

I thought that even in England no-one was allowed to travel out of area except for essential travel. No different in Scotland.

 

[6Z09]

This will either become the Seatfrog solution where a £10 upgrade is possible via the avanti app, they'll sell all the upgrades not seatfrog, there won't be auctions it'll be a first come first serve system and they'll hopefully only sell the correct number of tickets for bums on seats, and they'll get another £300-400 in ticket revenue per train with no perceivable cost because if 1st is underutilised already they're carrying around fresh air and making no money on it

Or they'll actively advertise it and complicate the booking websites with a 3rd class of travel, which is only on their trains, which doesn't align with the other TOCs class levels which is not what the DaFT want they want simpler ticketing

Isn't there also the issue that Mrs Sturgeon has closed the border to the English, so no-one should be travelling on the train? Not sure there are armed guards on the border, though

UK wide travel ban!
So drop the Sturgeon nonsense.
Political Leaders of all persuasions are making it up as they go!