Caledonian Sleeper

[Iskra]

Instead of going in the wrong direction to London, why not just catch a day train to Scotland?

To be fair, the last connection of the day from Preston to Fort William is 1441. You can leave Preston at 1758 if you connect with the Sleeper. Obviously you can board it at Preston in the middle of the night, but if the OP isn't doing anything that evening I can see why they might like the civilised option.

Inverness is 1706 (change at Haymarket), so a day train would make more sense there.

It very much depends on your motivations. I'm usually travelling for leisure and am not in a hurry when heading to Northern Scotland. I usually prefer the most civilised and comfortable option and I view sleeper travel as an added experience to my holiday.

I once used Scotrail from Glasgow to Fort William and I have no desire to do such a journey on a sprinter again.
I don't have much enthusiasm for travelling on an LNER Azuma to Inverness (I enjoyed that journey on HST's however) and the arrival time is around 8pm, which means you need a hotel stay. This then makes the sleeper a competitive option again, as you arrive and then have a full day ahead of you, as well as the advantage that you can set off after work the evening before and not waste a days holiday/rest day on the train.

Obviously, you are welcome to disagree and everyone has their own enjoyments and priorities. I must add that all my previous Caledonian Sleeper journeys were before MK5's when the prices were more sensible. Since the MK5's I've struggled to justify the cost and not even bothered with Scotland since Covid started- my travel is discretionary. My last sleeper journey was the Night Riviera at 1/3 of the price...

 

[AberdeenBill]

This then makes the sleeper a competitive option again, as you arrive and then have a full day ahead of you, as well as the advantage that you can set off after work the evening before and not waste a days holiday/rest day on the train.

Particularly as depending on when you go, the price of hotel accommodation in Inverness is very expensive, in comparison to most other cities. Even basic guest houses sometimes show on Booking.com at over £100 per night.

 

[Butts]

Particularly as depending on when you go, the price of hotel accommodation in Inverness is very expensive, in comparison to most other cities. Even basic guest houses sometimes show on Booking.com at over £100 per night.

Why not try the numerous Travelodge's or Premier Inn's in close proximity to Inverness - they are often a lot cheaper.

 

[Cheshire Scot]

Why not try the numerous Travelodge's or Premier Inn's in close proximity to Inverness - they are often a lot cheaper.

Can't speak for Travelodge, but in high summer the various Premier Inn's around Inverness are well past £100 per night.

Last summer we found the Airport Marriott at around 60% of the Premier Inn best price - ok if, like us, you are travelling by car, or once the Airport station is open.

On another sleeper subject, whilst browsing in the 1966 LM Region train marshalling book I was interested to note the Euston to Liverpool and Manchester overnights conveyed four and five sleeping cars respectively in addition to seated coaches, very much changed days when I was using them in the 1980s and it was one sleeping car to each.

 

[Peter Sarf]

..........

and the arrival time is around 8pm, which means you need a hotel stay. This then makes the sleeper a competitive option again, as you arrive and then have a full day ahead of you, as well as the advantage that you can set off after work the evening before and not waste a days holiday/rest day on the train.

..........

This has been my main motivation for using a sleeper train in various countries. It is an efficient use of a night that then leaves more waking hours for enjoying leisure activities. But I am not keen at the price Caledonian Sleeper want to charge.

 

[Norther Monkey]

This has been my main motivation for using a sleeper train in various countries. It is an efficient use of a night that then leaves more waking hours for enjoying leisure activities. But I am not keen at the price Caledonian Sleeper want to charge.

It would be interesting to know if the passenger profile of the Caledonian Sleeper has changed following the change in franchise arrangements and subsequent price increases. I've stopped using it for commuting due to the price increases (and the poor comfort in the seats), and now fly from the SE to my home in Aberdeen. Is leisure traffic, with the journey as part of the experience, now a greater proportion of passengers than before?

Obviously COVID effects make any analysis more difficult.

 

[route101]

This has been my main motivation for using a sleeper train in various countries. It is an efficient use of a night that then leaves more waking hours for enjoying leisure activities. But I am not keen at the price Caledonian Sleeper want to charge.

I finished work and made my way to London to catch the sleeper to Scotland for Xmas. Reason I took it to travel overnight and maximize the time. Dosent work the other way unless I start later at work.

 

[Blindtraveler]

I continue to use the seats on occasion for northbound journeys after work but have not used it to go south for a very long time, certainly pre pandemic and possibly even pre MK5.

All that being said if easyJet can offer me anything in the region of £45 or less then that's who gets my business as I can then return home to my own bed and drink my own whisky at my own leisure

 

[Bletchleyite]

I continue to use the seats on occasion for northbound journeys after work but have not used it to go south for a very long time, certainly pre pandemic and possibly even pre MK5.

All that being said if easyJet can offer me anything in the region of £45 or less then that's who gets my business as I can then return home to my own bed and drink my own whisky at my own leisure

This is the issue with sleepers. Personally, 3-4 hours in my own bed is more useful sleep than 7-8 hours fitful attempt at sleep on a train. The Fort Bill is an amazing experience (though I can't imagine ever seeing a use-case for the Lowlander for me) as is the Inverness to a slightly lesser extent, but if I'm going to need to be mentally productive when I get there it's not even an option.

 

[35B]

This is the issue with sleepers. Personally, 3-4 hours in my own bed is more useful sleep than 7-8 hours fitful attempt at sleep on a train. The Fort Bill is an amazing experience (though I can't imagine ever seeing a use-case for the Lowlander for me) as is the Inverness to a slightly lesser extent, but if I'm going to need to be mentally productive when I get there it's not even an option.

Whereas, highlighting how different options work for different people, I've found the Lowlander very useful in allowing me to do an evening function at work in London, and then client meetings in Edinburgh. As an extreme niche use case, I also found it quite useful a couple of times in First days to allow me to go to the opera in London, then get a decent night's sleep before travelling to Newcastle for the following day - certainly better (and cheaper) than a hotel followed by the 06:15 from King's Cross.

 

[iamterry]

I've only used it once for getting me and my (10) year old son + bikes up to Fort William to save loosing a day (I didn't appreciate having to get up at silly o'clock to move the bikes in Edinburgh).

The cost did make me wince somewhat and I'd have preferred it to have been cheaper - I do think it's on the wrong side of justifiable when comparing day time trains + hotels.

However I found it comfortable (my son loved it!) and the weather was good so the views out of out window were great. - Though it was a shame that it was when the dining car was still closed and breakfast was a rubbish bacon roll, so I don't feel like I've had a proper experience.

I am mentally entertaining the idea of trying again, maybe to inverness next time but cost will always be in the back of my mind.

 

[GS250]

I've used the 'old' sleeper a couple of times from Fort William to Euston. Found the Mk2 Lounge Car cosy but the air con wasn't working very well and the ride quality was iffy at higher speeds. We were running very late due to a 92 dying at Edinburgh...so a 90 was able to rush at at 100+ which probably didn't do the mk2 ride any favours. The sleeper cabin was fine though. A little sparse but quiet and comfy.

Eagerly awaiting a go of the new sleeper. Had one booked last August but strike action put paid to that. Mum and Dad had a sleeper ride from Fort William to Euston last summer and absolutely loved it.

Have peered into the Mk5 stock a few times at Inverness and in general it looks fine. Not sure about the overnight seating coach though....looks a bit bright and seats rather ironing board. Can anyone else disprove this?

 

[Bletchleyite]

The seats are the same as the First Class ones in 80x, which I see to be fairly poor, but it is a budget service in the same sort of market as road coaches, and is hugely more comfortable and spacious than one of those.

 

[JonathanH]

Not sure about the overnight seating coach though....looks a bit bright and seats rather ironing board. Can anyone else disprove this?

Yes, too bright but you do get an eye mask. Seats are comfortable enough but don't recline anywhere near enough. Much less recline than on road coaches.

 

[adrock1976]

Yes, too bright but you do get an eye mask. Seats are comfortable enough but don't recline anywhere near enough. Much less recline than on road coaches.

However, the seats are not very comfortable if like me you are a side sleeper based on my two previous journeys Falkirk Grahamston - Crewe.

 

[Bletchleyite]

However, the seats are not very comfortable if like me you are a side sleeper based on my two previous journeys Falkirk Grahamston - Crewe.

Other than airline style lay flat seats, I'm not sure any seat is comfortable for a side sleeper, to be honest. Seats are generally contoured to sit facing forwards.

 

[Peter Sarf]

Other than airline style lay flat seats, I'm not sure any seat is comfortable for a side sleeper, to be honest. Seats are generally contoured to sit facing forwards.

Side sleeper here. I can sleep for 9+ hours on an airline. I achieve that by stuffing the pillow between the headrest and the side of the plane. So dictates a window seat. Legroom is my challenge in economy. This was back in the days of direct flights on 747s Heathrow to Bankok etc. And before I started worrying about DVT (Deep Vein Thrombosis) so now I prefer to keep awake and moving so as to keep blood circulation going. I reckon my training was years of commuting on slammers.

 

[Norther Monkey]

I've used the 'old' sleeper a couple of times from Fort William to Euston. Found the Mk2 Lounge Car cosy but the air con wasn't working very well and the ride quality was iffy at higher speeds. We were running very late due to a 92 dying at Edinburgh...so a 90 was able to rush at at 100+ which probably didn't do the mk2 ride any favours. The sleeper cabin was fine though. A little sparse but quiet and comfy.

Eagerly awaiting a go of the new sleeper. Had one booked last August but strike action put paid to that. Mum and Dad had a sleeper ride from Fort William to Euston last summer and absolutely loved it.

Have peered into the Mk5 stock a few times at Inverness and in general it looks fine. Not sure about the overnight seating coach though....looks a bit bright and seats rather ironing board. Can anyone else disprove this?

Seat comfort is hugely subjective but in my experience the Mk5 seated coach is awful. I couldn't get comfortable in the seats at all, and got zero sleep both times I used it. Carriage felt cold, exacerbated by the window frame a/c outlet. In contrast in the old Mk2 seats I slept reasonably well (for a seat), and could get through the following day reasonably alert.

I sleep better on coaches than I do in a Mk5 sleeper seat.

 

[Lee_Again]

Am I missing something...? The only tickets I can see for FW/Inv (and FW return) are flexi. Are there no advance fares available? Looking for a Club Solo in April !!

 

[Bletchleyite]

Am I missing something...? The only tickets I can see for FW/Inv (and FW return) are flexi. Are there no advance fares available? Looking for a Club Solo in April !!

Probably not released any yet.

 

[alistairlees]

Am I missing something...? The only tickets I can see for FW/Inv (and FW return) are flexi. Are there no advance fares available? Looking for a Club Solo in April !!

Only fully flexible tickets are on sale currently. Whilst they are slightly more expensive, you are able to get a full refund or change them without fees.

 

[Lee_Again]

Probably not released any yet.

thank you

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 14 Jan 2022 ==

Only fully flexible tickets are on sale currently. Whilst they are slightly more expensive, you are able to get a full refund or change them without fees.

thank you


£300 for a single to FW/Inv is a little excessive. I've used the sleeper numerous times over the years for both business and pleasure and never paid anywhere near this amount. Nevermind!

 

[Starmill]

£300 for a single to FW/Inv is a little excessive. I've used the sleeper numerous times over the years for both business and pleasure and never paid anywhere near this amount. Nevermind!

It appears to be fairly typical for the going rate these days. Is it actually possible to get a single at less than £200 these days?

I don't include the seats in that because they're absolutely horrendous to spend twelve hours or so in trying to sleep.

 

[Bletchleyite]

It appears to be fairly typical for the going rate these days. Is it actually possible to get a single at less than £200 these days?

I don't include the seats in that because they're absolutely horrendous to spend twelve hours or so in trying to sleep.

Ouch. Presumably it's the only way (a la Avanti's outrageous Anytime fares) to keep it going at the moment with low volumes and few tourists?

No way would I be paying £600 return when an Off Peak Return (with very good validity) is just £185.70 (which is itself getting pricey compared with flying). Even if you added a Premier Inn on the way back (no BoJ on the outward) it'd come in way cheaper.

 

[Starmill]

The seats are the same as the First Class ones in 80x, which I see to be fairly poor, but it is a budget service in the same sort of market as road coaches, and is hugely more comfortable and spacious than one of those.

Sadly the seats are hopelessly uncompetitive on price at £45 - 60 with other budget players (where comfort is similarly not the priority).

 

[Bletchleyite]

Sadly the seats are hopelessly uncompetitive on price at £45 - 60 with other budget players.

I don't think there's a through coach service to FW, is there? So doing coach+train or plane+train or plane+hire car you'd struggle to come in lower than that, I reckon. Coach+coach with a change in Glasgow might come close to meeting it (but I doubt be much cheaper if at all)? But to be honest if coach+coach was the only option for me financially I'd probably conclude I couldn't afford to go at all.

 

[GS250]

Ouch. Presumably it's the only way (a la Avanti's outrageous Anytime fares) to keep it going at the moment with low volumes and few tourists?

No way would I be paying £600 return when an Off Peak Return is just £185.70 (which is itself getting pricey compared with flying).

Ma and Pa had an en suite twin room that cost around £180 last June. I must admit I've looked at the prices recently and my eyebrows nearly fell off.

 

[JonathanH]

Maybe not Fort William but the sleeper can be had for £190 Club single / £130 Classic single from London to Glasgow on the night of Tuesday 15 February. I suggest that may be the starting price now and presumably there aren't very many at that level.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Maybe not Fort William but the sleeper can be had for £190 Club single / £130 Classic single from London to Glasgow on the night of Tuesday 15 February. I suggest that may be the starting price now and presumably there aren't very many at that level.

That's more within the realms of reason.

 

[JonathanH]

That's more within the realms of reason.

Yes, but the number of places at that cost appears to be extremely limited.