Caledonian Sleeper

[D1537]

1M16 has failed and has been caped at Perth. Looks like the Aberdeen portion may be going forward on its own, there's a 1Z16 in the system.

 

[BRX]

I don't think it's to give them scope for service alterations, rather it's so they don't end up in a position of being unable to sell any London seated tickets because someone has booked all the seats from FW to Corrour or something.

There will always be seats available between Edinburgh and Fort William. Assuming that at least some people are going from London to Aberdeen in the seats, then that number of seats will be free between Edinburgh and Fort William.

I guess in theory there could be a scenario where the entire aberdeen coach is full of fort William passengers.

But in any case ... I wonder why 7 days is chosen as the window, rather than any more or any less.

Ignoring what happens with cancellations, surely as soon as you have sold an aberdeen seated ticket you know there's a corresponding FW "day seat" that will definitely be available for reservation.

 

[Deafdoggie]

There will always be seats available between Edinburgh and Fort William. Assuming that at least some people are going from London to Aberdeen in the seats, then that number of seats will be free between Edinburgh and Fort William.

It's not a guarantee. If, for example, the coach seats 30 & it is 15 each booked for Aberdeen & Fort William on departure from Euston, then a walking group has booked 15 seats from Edinburgh to Fort William, there are no seats. Very unlikely I grant you, but possible.

 

[Trainguy34]

1M16 has failed and has been caped at Perth. Looks like the Aberdeen portion may be going forward on its own, there's a 1Z16 in the system.

1M16 then ran empty to Edinburgh, arriving at 2.50 this morning before joining with the Aberdeen Portion to form 1Z16, which left at 4.05 (163 late) , now passing Warrington BQ 138 late.

 

[trebor79]

Weird. Why turf everyone off, then run it anyway and make all the other portions late? Surely it would have been less delay to not turf the passengers off first?

 

[Blindtraveler]

I assume the failure was something in the department of passengers can't stay on board because this is failed rather than something up with the running of the stock more generally, pretty poor service though

 

[Norther Monkey]

To be honest the sleeper seats really are the budget end of the service that I suspect they don't care much about and would get rid of should an opportunity arise, I use them with a certain amount of dread these days and zero expectation of getting any sleep, it's a juggling act for me between wanting to support the sleeper, enjoying the convenience that the overall concept office me, but being unable to afford anything better than seated accommodation

The seats and carriage are awful, a huge step down from the Mk. 2 seated coach. They can offer great value, especially with a railcard, but don't expect any meaningful sleep. By way of comparison in the Mk. 2 on London to Aberdeen I could usually get enough sleep to function the following day (albeit not quite at 100%), I've never achieved the same in the Mk. 5.

 

[Gonzoiku]

I assume the failure was something in the department of passengers can't stay on board because this is failed rather than something up with the running of the stock more generally, pretty poor service though

Hotel power rather than traction problem? Meaning that the train was not fit for passenger use until the stock was formed up with the Aberdeen and Fort William sections at Waverley. But it could proceed to Waverley under its own power. Passengers taxied there?

Speculation, no more.

GZ

 

[paul1609]

I don't think it's to give them scope for service alterations, rather it's so they don't end up in a position of being unable to sell any London seated tickets because someone has booked all the seats from FW to Corrour or something.

When I was based at Faslane I used to often use the sleeper to go hillwalking for the day from Garelochead. Although the service was reservation only there was no practical way to make a reservation. I always used to turn up on Spec and was never turned away even if I ended up sitting in the lounge. I think it was probably the last service to still issue handwritten paper tickets the last one I bought was about 7 years ago but they still might be doing it for all I know.

 

[John Bishop]

Hotel power rather than traction problem? Meaning that the train was not fit for passenger use until the stock was formed up with the Aberdeen and Fort William sections at Waverley. But it could proceed to Waverley under its own power. Passengers taxied there?

Speculation, no more.

GZ

Those pesky 73s playing up again. Electrical fault with the loco.
Aberdeen portion cancelled late last week due to 73 failure as well.

 

[43096]

Hotel power rather than traction problem? Meaning that the train was not fit for passenger use until the stock was formed up with the Aberdeen and Fort William sections at Waverley. But it could proceed to Waverley under its own power. Passengers taxied there?

Speculation, no more.

GZ

Loss of train supply means that (eventually) you lose the train management system once the batteries drain. So, no problem with running empty, but you can’t run in passenger service in that condition. So better to get the passengers off at a suitable location and put them on a bus to Edinburgh while the stock goes empty to Edinburgh. Passengers can then re-join as the stock is then plugged into the Class 92.

 

[island]

When I was based at Faslane I used to often use the sleeper to go hillwalking for the day from Garelochead. Although the service was reservation only there was no practical way to make a reservation. I always used to turn up on Spec and was never turned away even if I ended up sitting in the lounge. I think it was probably the last service to still issue handwritten paper tickets the last one I bought was about 7 years ago but they still might be doing it for all I know.

I've seen CS tickets issued out of the catering till.

 

[PG]

When I was based at Faslane I used to often use the sleeper to go hillwalking for the day from Garelochead. Although the service was reservation only there was no practical way to make a reservation. I always used to turn up on Spec and was never turned away even if I ended up sitting in the lounge. I think it was probably the last service to still issue handwritten paper tickets the last one I bought was about 7 years ago but they still might be doing it for all I know.

Is the seated coach (unlike every other UK train) not allowed standing passengers? If it is then why all the hoo-ha over reservations - any day passengers can stand if there aren't any seats left!

 

[185143]

Is the seated coach (unlike every other UK train) not allowed standing passengers? If it is then why all the hoo-ha over reservations - any day passengers can stand if there aren't any seats left!

Pretty sure they don't allow standing.

Certainly when I asked for a seat reservation a few weeks ago for a couple of journeys between Fort William and Arrochar and Tarbet I was fobbed off and lied to told that there were no reservations available and I'd have to use an alternative train.

That's not something I consider acceptable really given the very sparse service on that line beyond Helensburgh. Especially when I spoke to the ticket office at Fort William for the second journey, they gave me a reservation no problem and I travelled with (I think) 10 other passengers. So plenty of space. I posted about it in here at the time IIRC.[/S]

 

[island]

1M16 has failed and has been caped at Perth. Looks like the Aberdeen portion may be going forward on its own, there's a 1Z16 in the system.

Can I ask why people write "caped" instead of the much more accessible annd understandable "cancelled"? We're long past the days of telex machines charging per character! (And the forum rules discourage jargon as well.)

 

[Bletchleyite]

Is the seated coach (unlike every other UK train) not allowed standing passengers? If it is then why all the hoo-ha over reservations - any day passengers can stand if there aren't any seats left!

Standing doesn't work very well for overnighters. They could I suppose allow it for the "domestic" stretch only, but as it's only half a coach it could be a problem if 50 turn up.

It is a shame they didn't order an extra Standard Open with 2+2 seating to use in the "domestic" service. Suspect they were hoping to get away with not doing it. Though perhaps if the TPE Mk5as end up in the scrapper they could grab and convert a couple.

 

[cf111]

Pretty sure they don't allow standing.

Certainly when I asked for a seat reservation a few weeks ago for a couple of journeys between Fort William and Arrochar and Tarbet I was fobbed off and lied to told that there were no reservations available and I'd have to use an alternative train.

That's not something I consider acceptable really given the very sparse service on that line beyond Helensburgh. Especially when I spoke to the ticket office at Fort William for the second journey, they gave me a reservation no problem and I travelled with (I think) 10 other passengers. So plenty of space. I posted about it in here at the time IIRC.[/S]

The ticket office at Ft. William have always been a good bunch in my experience.

I think it's clear that Serco find running the seated coach as a day-service nothing more than an annoyance.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I think it's clear that Serco find running the seated coach as a day-service nothing more than an annoyance.

You're a bit behind there, it's ScotGov now, not Serco.

 

[Peter Sarf]

Standing doesn't work very well for overnighters. They could I suppose allow it for the "domestic" stretch only, but as it's only half a coach it could be a problem if 50 turn up.

It is a shame they didn't order an extra Standard Open with 2+2 seating to use in the "domestic" service. Suspect they were hoping to get away with not doing it. Though perhaps if the TPE Mk5as end up in the scrapper they could grab and convert a couple.

Ah but remember - its a hotel on wheels isn't it . So any seated accommodation beyond the lounge might have been rather reluctantly ordered.

Begs the question, given how busy Caledonian Sleeper might be, would the seated coach be at risk of being replaced by another sleeper coach ?.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Begs the question, given how busy Caledonian Sleeper might be, would the seated coach be at risk of being replaced by another sleeper coach ?.

It's also the brake coach which is required in a formation, so you would only get maybe 3-4 compartments. Thus my bet would be "no".

What wouldn't have surprised me before would be the end of the Aberdeen portion with a whole half set doing Fort William, but now ScotGov run it themselves that's probably too political.

 

[JonathanH]

What wouldn't have surprised me before would be the end of the Aberdeen portion with a whole half set doing Fort William, but now ScotGov run it themselves that's probably too political.

That doesn't provide any additional seated accommodation.

 

[Bletchleyite]

That doesn't provide any additional seated accommodation.

I know. I was replying to Peter who was suggesting they might consider converting the seated coach to more beds and not doing seating at all (as BR didn't for a fair while).

 

[cf111]

You're a bit behind there, it's ScotGov now, not Serco.

So it is! Maybe they could melt down one of the ferries rusting away on the Clyde to build more coaches?

 

[Gonzoiku]

So it is! Maybe they could melt down one of the ferries rusting away on the Clyde to build more coaches?

Whip it down to Ravenscraig? I think not.

GZ

 

[route101]

I phoned up CS to get a reservation from Fort William to Glasgow Queen St low level a few years back.

 

[Beebman]

I phoned up CS to get a reservation from Fort William to Glasgow Queen St low level a few years back.

A few months ago Scott on the 'Planes, Trains, Everything' YouTube channel described how he travelled from Fort William to Glasgow Queen St LL by CS after having had something of a struggle to make an online reservation:

How to travel on the Caledonian Sleeper within Scotland. I set myself a challenge between Fort William and Glasgow Queen Street. I could have caught an earlier Scotrail service, but I had to travel on the Caledonian Sleeper for a reason.

 

[A S Leib]

As the tickets for Edinburgh to Fort William on the ScotRail app I've seen so far are all £40 and starting from Euston it's £36 for a seat for the day I want to travel, if I were to buy a ticket from Euston and ask in advance if I can join at Edinburgh, how likely would that be to be approved? (Sleeper tickets are fully refundable if done over a week before travel, so not a massive issue if not.)

 

[JModulo]

It's also the brake coach which is required in a formation, so you would only get maybe 3-4 compartments. Thus my bet would be "no".

It's not anymore. The mk5s are set up differently in that every coach has a parking brake. It is however needed as it has the "main" computer to control a rake.

 

[PG]

I think it's clear that Serco find running the seated coach as a day-service nothing more than an annoyance.

I wonder if the Scottish government, since they are now running it as pointed out by @Bletchleyite , might find accepting day passengers within Scotland on the seated coach to be less of an annoyance than Servo did? Particularly if someone prompted one of the Green party MSPs to raise the issue since they are propping up the SNP government? It's not exactly environmentally friendly to discourage the use of empty seats!

 

[paul1609]

Standing doesn't work very well for overnighters. They could I suppose allow it for the "domestic" stretch only, but as it's only half a coach it could be a problem if 50 turn up.

It is a shame they didn't order an extra Standard Open with 2+2 seating to use in the "domestic" service. Suspect they were hoping to get away with not doing it. Though perhaps if the TPE Mk5as end up in the scrapper they could grab and convert a couple.

I seem to remember that 6 is the maximum length for regular passenger (ones that call at the intermediate Staions) services Crianlarich to Fort William because of the length of the loops, platforms and their interaction with the RETB. In fact thinking of the layout at Garelochead it may well be the whole WHL.