Caledonian Sleeper

[Peter Mugridge]

I hope the shorter train is essential for maintenance reasons

Yes, it is. This is normal during the winter period.

 

[glenbogle]

Aberdeen sleeper cancelled tonight - Technical issues.
We are sorry to advise that tonight’s Aberdeen to London Euston service has been cancelled.

The cancellation is due to a technical problem with the train meaning it’s not possible to run tonight’s service and despite our best efforts, we have not been able to secure alternative transport.

We recommend that you return home if possible. If you are unable to, we can cover any reasonable hotel costs you may incur.

We will process a full refund of your ticket and are attempting to arrange travel with other operators tomorrow, for which we will be in further contact.

We apologise for the inconvenience that this will cause and If you require any further assistance, please contact us on Live Chat.

 

[MrJeeves]

I wonder why they aren't converting the sleeper into a static hotel like they sometimes do?

RTT reports the cancellation code as MC, which means the loco failed in some way.

---

Update: ticket acceptance on Avanti now.

We have arranged for you to travel on the 10:38 and 11:36 Avanti services from Glasgow Central to London Euston tomorrow morning. You will be able to use your Sleeper ticket to travel to Glasgow Central.

From: https://www.sleeper.scot/service-alterations/

 

[Gaelan]

I wonder why they aren't converting the sleeper into a static hotel like they sometimes do?

Maybe they can't get the train from wherever they stable it during the day into the Aberdeen platforms?

 

[MrJeeves]

Maybe they can't get the train from wherever they stable it during the day into the Aberdeen platforms?

Oh yes, that would be a very obvious and simple explanation!

 

[D6130]

wonder why they aren't converting the sleeper into a static hotel like they sometimes do?

Possibly because the locomotive defect means that it is unable to provide 'hotel power' to the stock.

 

[PG]

I wonder why they aren't converting the sleeper into a static hotel like they sometimes do?

RTT reports the cancellation code as MC, which means the loco failed in some way.

Presumably this means tomorrow night Highlander won't have an Aberdeen portion?

 

[JonathanH]

Presumably this means tomorrow night Highlander won't have an Aberdeen portion?

No, unless some out of plan shunting happens in London. According to the plan, the Glasgow portion of the Lowlander will be short / cancelled.

It is likely that the two sleeping coaches on the Fort William portion will go to London with the Inverness portion, and logically that the nine coaches will all go to Edinburgh tomorrow night. If the Aberdeen portion can be rescued, it would go to Polmadie and be reunited with the rest of its 'unit' on Tuesday.

However, there could be something else happen.

---------
As anticipated, the sleeper ran with 9 coaches to London, the two coaches from Fort William joining up with the Inverness portion.

The Aberdeen stock from last night heading to Polmadie this lunchtime.

Realtime Trains | 5Z16 1315 Aberdeen to Polmadie Car M.D. | 11/12/2023

Real-time train running information for 5Z16 1315 departure from Aberdeen to Polmadie Car M.D. on 11/12/2023. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

----------
The short formed sleeper is going solely to Glasgow tonight, and not Edinburgh.

We are very sorry to advise that your service this evening to Edinburgh Waverley will now terminate at Glasgow Central tomorrow morning due to an unavoidable operational issue.

If you wish to arrive in Edinburgh at your scheduled time, you do have the option to disembark at Carstairs at approximately 06.15 and travel on a reduced Caledonian Sleeper service with a Seated Coach and a Club Car. On this short Edinburgh service, there will be a limited breakfast service onboard.

If you decide to stay with us to Glasgow Central, the train is due to arrive at 07:30 and we have arranged for you to travel to Edinburgh Waverley on any Scotrail service using your Sleeper ticket.

If you would like to cancel your travel in full, we will refund you the full amount. Please email us via [email protected] for a cancellation.

If you wish to travel, we will refund you 25% of the ticket price and the money will be back in the account used to make the purchase within 3-5 working days.

Again, please accept our sincere apologies for this last minute change to your travel to Edinburgh.

Please contact us via Live Chat online if you require any further assistance or speak to a crew member on board.

An interesting short train from Carstairs to Edinburgh tomorrow morning as well.

 

[leightonbd]

I enjoyed the new lounge last night for the first time before taking the Highlander to Aviemore, and had an exemplary overall experience: on time, comfortable, entirely in line with expectatation. The lounge was very busy (though not overcrowded) suggesting the number of seats is reasonably well aligned with the number of berths. It maybe makes the checkin marginally quicker.

One comment for the benefit of others, though: whilst most showers seems to have two controls (pressure and temperature) the shower in the lounge seems to have only one. With the jet pointing directly at the door, meaning water floods the changing space while you struggle to find the right temperature before stepping in (unless you want the hit of the initial cold flow; I didn’t). It seems you have to turn the dial high to get to a hot temperature and that also increases the power of the flow. At least the first time you try it (maybe I missed a trick, as a newbie). Don’t leave your clean clothes on the floor! (there is only one hook).

It’s great overall but feels like a penny was pinched here.

As a consequence I didn’t use the shower in the cabin, preferring to go home in the morning first. Can’t help thinking there will be quite a drop in water usage on board, at least northbound.

 

[urpert]

But the accompanying drinks ? probably a greater portion of your expenditure particularly if you want a decent nightcap ?

I know this is an old thread but last night the whiskies ranged from £10-£12.

 

[Gonzoiku]

I know this is an old thread but last night the whiskies ranged from £10-£12.

Sorry, but any seasoned Sleeper traveller knows to bring the necessary supplies! If leaving Inverness or Fort William, there are suitably convenient Morrisons which usually have several miniatures!

Slainte.

GZ

 

[Butts]

I know this is an old thread but last night the whiskies ranged from £10-£12.

That's a bit dearer than those on offer in the BA Lounge at Edinburgh Airport - for a comparison.

 

[urpert]

I was just excited to actually get a seat in the Lowland club car!

 

[Sleepy]

20th Dec Highlander will terminate at Edinburgh as line closed due to forecast bad weather. No alternative transport to Fort William is being provided. Poor show ? https://www.sleeper.scot/service-alterations/

 

[JonathanH]

Poor show ?

There are forecast gales and the train runs through arduous country. The decision won't have been taken lightly, and ultimately it has been taken by Network Rail. It looks like only the Fort William portion doesn't run north of Edinburgh. The Inverness and Aberdeen portions run but may be delayed.

Given the Fort William portion only runs with three sleeping coaches at this time of year, there won't be that many people affected. No doubt they can raise individual queries with Caledonian Sleeper about the decision.

On another matter, 66s on all three Highland portions today - 66716+73966 on Aberdeen, 66771+73970 on Inverness and 66302+73969 on Fort William.

 

[bleeder4]

An article in The Scotsman today saying the Caledonian Sleeper is so popular "it could fill some trains three times over". Here's the link - https://www.scotsman.com/news/trans...er-managing-director-kathryn-darbandi-4451311

It's behind a paywall, so here's the text:

The Caledonian Sleeper has enjoyed its “biggest and best” summer ever and expansion of the service is a possibility, its managing director has told The Scotsman.

Kathryn Darbandi said reservations had reached record levels, services were becoming fully booked earlier and the most popular trains could be sold three times over
Speaking six months after the Scotland-London overnight service was taken back into public hands by the Scottish Government, Ms Darbandi said expanding the fleet could even be considered, such was the demand.

She said: "The only way to increase capacity would be additional trains, which would be a really big decision. It would be very costly, but when you consider the broader economic benefit, it could be a consideration in the future.” Ms Darbandi said the first new Sleeper fleet for decades, introduced in 2019 and featuring double beds and en-suite showers, was proving a strong attraction. Trains run between Edinburgh, Glasgow, Aberdeen, Fort William, Inverness and London.
Ms Darbandi said: "A total of 80 per cent of our guests are first-time travellers – we’re quite shocked at that. It tends to be a lot of tourism and bucket list trips, and therefore we are bringing a lot of broader economic benefit to the tourism and hospitality industry in Scotland.
“We’ve had an amazing summer – the biggest and best we’ve ever had – and more advance sales than before. We could sell Inverness and Fort William trains on a Friday night probably three times over quite easily."
A new record of 999 passengers were carried one night in August, while overall sales were 10 per cent up this year, having already largely recovered in 2022 from the Covid pandemic.
Some bank holiday and school holiday services next year are already full, which Ms Darbandi said was around two weeks earlier than before.

Ms Drabandi said the seated coach was also regularly sold out, even though some passengers had complained of not being able to sleep. She has yet to try it herself, despite regularly using the cabins.

She said: “It’s a very economic way of travelling – and a bit like an overnight flight, with at-seat service of food and drink.” Ms Darbandi said the Sleeper had also benefited from companies seeking to reduce the environmental impact of their travel. She said: "Taking the train is convenient and productive. Quite a lot of businesses are changing their staff travel policy and insisting people consider train before plane.”
The managing director said the Sleeper’s transfer to state hands in June, after Serco’s franchise was terminated early over a funding dispute, had gone “incredibly smoothly”, in large part because its entire workforce of around 250 had remained.

Ms Darbandi said staff were “so dedicated to their job and loved the brand and product that there was no question really – everybody said up front that it doesn’t really matter, we want to stay”.

Scottish Conservatives transport spokesperson Graham Simpson said: “It’s good news that sales are booming, but that was the case before the Scottish Government stepped in. If the staff have transferred and the service is running much as before, it’s difficult to see that nationalising it has made any difference.”

Alex Rowley, his Scottish Labour counterpart, “Public ownership needs to be made permanent and all parts of the Sleeper's operation should be directly employed by the new publicly-owned Sleeper.”

Much of the Sleeper operation remains outsourced to the private sector, including its locomotives, drivers, cleaners and maintenance.

 

[Blindtraveler]

I am glad to see the sleeper thriving as a long-term fan of and supporter of the service, it's disappointing from the point of view of a passenger who would like to use it more to see it being priced and sold as a bucket list tourist experience or to corporate clients who's expense budgets are big enough to allow them to use it, I still can't quite see how it stacks up versus budget airline flight and hotel for many of them but nonetheless, it will be interesting to see if they do consider any form of expansion going forward as already pointed out this would be a huge decision and would quite rightly undergo a certain amount of public scrutiny now the service is in public ownership but would certainly go down well if they for example perhaps aims to introduce separate trains default William or Inverness or introduced another class of accommodation aimed at budget travelers who don't necessarily want the seated option, I think the managing director really needs to try a typical night in the seats to see what it's like for those of us that either book the service once or people like me who have tried to be loyal to it but our finding it harder to do so

 

[PG]

Which parts of maintenance are outsourced to the private sector? Obviously traction is privately maintained since it's hired in but what about the stock? Or is this the usual quality Scotsman journalism?

 

[JonathanH]

Which parts of maintenance are outsourced to the private sector? Obviously traction is privately maintained since it's hired in but what about the stock? Or is this the usual quality Scotsman journalism?

The stock is maintained by Alstom.

 

[williamn]

Surely 999 in one night must be a record for the new stock only given its lower capacity.

 

[Peter Sarf]

I note Ms Darbandi refers to the large proportion of first time travellers. Looked at by my logic that means there is a lack of repeat business. So cannot judge carryings as driven by customer satisfaction.

Now Tourism would explain the lack of repeat business as I doubt many tourists do the same thing over again but it does mean we don't actually know what people think of the service. I would say there is a risk that salesmanship is triumphing over actual experience. But that does not matter too much if the train is full unless there ends up being too much bad publicity - that is only applicable if Caledonian Sleeper really is that bad.

In terms of possible repeat business is the lack of repeat business down to business travellers saying not again OR just as likely not using it at those prices.

My take is that Caledonian Sleeper has switched market from domestic and business to the more lucrative tourist market. I have not heard many tourists complain btw.

So is there a market for a lower cost version for all those displaced business travellers, domestic travellers and enthusiasts ?.

Somewhere in that market might be enough demand for a decent overnight seated/couchette service.

I think adding more trains / stock has to be approached carefully. What is the finite untapped demand ?.

Besides growth is unlikely if there is a corresponding growth in subsidy.

And I really don't see how nationalisation has had that much of an effect on quality. Maybe a cost saving if Scotrail has taken over the back office and/or support roles.

 

[SussexSeagull]

I live on the Sussex coast and a friend of mine has need to travel to Edinburgh for work and his company specify he can't use the Caledonian Sleeper and claim it back on expenses.

 

[Peter Sarf]

I live on the Sussex coast and a friend of mine has need to travel to Edinburgh for work and his company specify he can't use the Caledonian Sleeper and claim it back on expenses.

Do they give a reason ?.

 

[Bletchleyite]

My take is that Caledonian Sleeper has switched market from domestic and business to the more lucrative tourist market. I have not heard many tourists complain btw.

So is there a market for a lower cost version for all those displaced business travellers, domestic travellers and enthusiasts ?.

Business travel is down massively and looks unlikely to ever recover, and business travellers are now more penny pinching than many leisure travellers*. This being the case, targetting anything at the business traveller is not going to be a profitable enterprise.

* For instance my employer mandates Advances if applicable, but I hardly ever use them myself, preferring to pay more for flexibility. I'll also sometimes upgrade to First Class if the price is right but my employer no longer allows it.

 

[185143]

Travelled from Edinburgh to London last night. The seated coach was fully reserved. The TM was sensible and displayed on the screens that the coach was fully reserved, and that three (specified) seats were reserved from Carlisle.

If they can fill the seats on a Tuesday in December they must be doing something right.

 

[JamieL]

I am not sure we can rule out the CS getting repeat customers - I use the service semi-regularly for business and leisure travel - I am sure I am not alone. It is convenient, time-efficient, reliable and very comfortable. Try saying all that about any other long distance UK train! I would use it more if capacity wasn't so limited in Winter!

 

[williamn]

I am not sure we can rule out the CS getting repeat customers - I use the service semi-regularly for business and leisure travel - I am sure I am not alone. It is convenient, time-efficient, reliable and very comfortable. Try saying all that about any other long distance UK train! I would use it more if capacity wasn't so limited in Winter!

Ditto. The only reason I don’t use it more is price, but if they can sell at higher prices then fair enough.

 

[Deafdoggie]

I am not sure we can rule out the CS getting repeat customers - I use the service semi-regularly for business and leisure travel - I am sure I am not alone. It is convenient, time-efficient, reliable and very comfortable. Try saying all that about any other long distance UK train! I would use it more if capacity wasn't so limited in Winter!

They themselves are the ones saying its mainly first timers.

 

[alistairlees]

Surely 999 in one night must be a record for the new stock only given its lower capacity.

As I have occasionally said, the new stock is not lower capacity (by anything other than a small amount) than the old stock.

 

[ScotTrains]

Looks like the Scottish Government is going to hike up the fares by nearly 9% from Jan 1st.
If you thought it was already extortionate just wait till next year!