Cambridge Old Layout

[mawallace]

If you have time the 'disused stations site is worth a read!

Pulling some of the things which relate to the above points: -

- http://www.disused-stations.org.uk/c/cambridge/index1.shtml - this gives a map of the station and the line from Newmarket from the late 1800's - showing it arriving into the station.

Also mentions the difficulties that the University caused -

- http://www.disused-stations.org.uk/c/cambridge/index2.shtml also contains some notes re the newer platforms and the bays with some photos of the station layouts.

- this page also has a map showing the old station approaches and layout! http://www.disused-stations.org.uk/c/cambridge/index4.shtml

- the new Newmarket line - http://www.disused-stations.org.uk/c/cambridge/index5.shtml
- http://www.disused-stations.org.uk/c/cambridge/index27.shtml shows the horses referred to above

 

[O L Leigh]

If you have time the 'disused stations site is worth a read!

I can second that. Whoever wrote the pages for Cambridge has written a very long and interesting history.

However, what appears to be lacking is any rationale for having just a single platform. Clearly the current island is not the first, but I guess that the answer lies in Cambridge's historic place as a quiet country market town. It's importance as a commuter hub has only really become a factor in the few decades since electrification and the increase in the number of direct rail services to the capital.

Now of course the majority of trains are through trains:
Norwich to Stansted Airport
Birmingham New St to Stansted Airport
London Liverpool St to Cambridge North
London King’s Cross to King’s Lynn
London King’s Cross to Ely

A lot of this increase in "through" services is just a way of increasing capacity at Cambridge station since it was added to the Thameslink network without having to build yet more platforms. The Liv St services now terminate at Cambridge North while some of the GN services have been extended through to Ely thereby freeing up platform space for terminating services originating from south of the Thames.

 

[Magdalia]

We have already established why the Cambridge station layout was built that way in 1845: it was commonplace where the station was built on the edge of towns.

The key question is why Cambridge did not change to what, with hindsight, we regard as a more conventional layout, which is what happened everywhere else.

One factor here is likely to be the small number of through passenger trains, compared to, for example, Bristol, Derby and Carlisle. Right up to the 1960s the important through traffic was the coal trains between Whitemoor and Temple Mills. One through up passenger train every two hours would be insufficient justification for change.

Also the space between the passenger station and the goods roads was used for carriage sidings. I don't know when that started, but it continued up to the early 1980s remodelling. Two potential difficulties with moving the carriage sidings would have been availability of land and water supply. These were only resolved when what is now called Cambridge Sidings North were built in the early 1980s.

I have referred to the Disused Stations website when contributing here. Another useful source is "London to Cambridge by train 1845-1938" by Reginald B Fellows, which was reprinted by Oleander Press in 1976.

Regarding Thameslink, the Brighton trains are 12 cars and unable to use the bays because of platform length constraints. Bay platforms 2 and 3 only take 8 car trains. Until the construction of island platforms 7 and 8 the only platform able to take a 12 car train was platform 1, and then only since some minor modifications in 2009. Modifications to allow platform 4 to take 12 car trains were completed last year.

 

[edwin_m]

A lot of this increase in "through" services is just a way of increasing capacity at Cambridge station since it was added to the Thameslink network without having to build yet more platforms. The Liv St services now terminate at Cambridge North while some of the GN services have been extended through to Ely thereby freeing up platform space for terminating services originating from south of the Thames.

I agree about the Ely ones, but the others would appear to have a real commercial reason to run through, arising from the need to provide a decent service at Cambridge North and to connect Stansted Airport to places beyond Cambridge. I've not been there since before the island platform, but I remember the concourse being very cramped, so perhaps not the best place for lots of airport passengers to be changing trains with luggage.

 

[Steve Harris]

Also the space between the passenger station and the goods roads was used for carriage sidings. I don't know when that started, but it continued up to the early 1980s remodelling. Two potential difficulties with moving the carriage sidings would have been availability of land and water supply. These were only resolved when what is now called Cambridge Sidings North were built in the early 1980s.

I have referred to the Disused Stations website when contributing here. Another useful source is "London to Cambridge by train 1845-1938" by Reginald B Fellows, which was reprinted by Oleander Press in 1976.

Oops a daisy.. You should never believe everything which is written in books, because even they contain errors (along with websites)!!

As stated before, I was brought up in and around Cambridge station in the 70's and 80's and I can asure you that the "reception roads" which you call the carriage sidings between the station platforms and goods roads were still in use as carriage sidings up until the demise of RES (Rail Express Systems).
I can plainly remember the early 80's with gronk 08889 shunting mk2 coach rakes from the sidings north of Mill Road (and they were there before 1980 as I can remember my mums workplace overlooking them... however I was to young to remember if coaching stock or wagons or loco's used to be in them) to the reception roads.

I can also remember Class 101 and 105's sitting in said reception roads, with in latter years Class 305, 308 and 317 before RES moved to Cambridge and started to stable the postal vans in them.

The Carriage Sidings have been expanded on more than one occasion with concrete walkways added in the early 80's (this is what you maybe referring to) along with a new building.

In Summary.... I have only known the sidings to the north of Mill Road to be known as Cambridge Carriage Sidings, the sidings used for stabling stock as the reception roads (now platforms 7 & 8 along with buildings). The Carriage sidings were there before 1980 but may or may not have been used as carriage sidings and may of just been plain old sidings (bearing im mind that Ridgeons builders merchant and a oil distribution terminal were both on Cromwell Road at that time, so these sidings may of well feed either or both of these).

Edit : The signing on point and 2 sidings for stabling loco's (along with their shunt neck) at the end of platform 6 was also built in the 80's (so again, the book writer may of been getting confused).

I agree about the Ely ones, but the others would appear to have a real commercial reason to run through, arising from the need to provide a decent service at Cambridge North and to connect Stansted Airport to places beyond Cambridge. I've not been there since before the island platform, but I remember the concourse being very cramped, so perhaps not the best place for lots of airport passengers to be changing trains with luggage.

The concourse cramped ? You should of been there in 83 when half of it was the booking office !

Although, with the original layout and TV departure monitors and waiting room on platform 1 there wasn't really any need to go onto the concourse when changing trains. As there was even a "Travellers Fayre" kiosk on platform 4 (right next to the station masters office)!

Edit : I think this has all been discussed before on this very forum but I can't find the thread at the mo.

 

[OVS Flatbottom]

Limerick Junction was a very similar layout one big platform split into two in the middle and a bay at each end (although access to the south end bay was via an avoiding line round the back of the station building).

One difference between Limerick Junction and Cambridge is that, as far as I know, there was never a full scissors crossover at the split in the through platform, just a half scissors formed by the two intersecting loops (i.e. you couldn't run straight from one through platform into the other, or use the two as one long platform - although the latter would have been pointless anyway, given that a train long enough to require the two platform faces would probably be too long to handle anywhere else).

The closest Irish analogue to Cambridge was actually Waterford North/Plunkett, from its rebuilding early in the 20th century onward; this had (I think) a main through platform with a full scissors in the middle, enabling it to function as one face or two, plus four bays at the west end and two at the east. (The resulting eight faces were only exceeded at any Irish station when Dublin Heuston was expanded early this century). The layout was gradually rationalised from the 1960s on, and today (pending the eastward relocation of the station) the entire passenger operation uses one of the western bays. The through platform was on a loop off a double-track through line, so there were three tracks between the platform and the rock face opposite. (It was, I believe, a rockfall that precipitated the final abandonment of the through platform a few years ago.) As far as I'm aware, the reason for the layout was an extremely narrow site between a hillside and a road (which itself had to be diverted to build the station).

 

[Magdalia]

The only book I have referred to was written in 1938, it is irrelevant to any discussion of the 1980s remodelling. Books may contain errors, but they are generally more reliable than anecdotal reminiscences.

Prior to the 1980s remodelling the sidings between the station and the goods road were the Cambridge Carriage Sidings. Passenger carrying stock was stabled there at night, watered and cleaned, and pre-heated for the winter morning departures. The servicing facilities were rudimentary, amounting to little more than running water, pre-heating vans, and a hut to store buckets and brooms.

All of that moved to new sidings, between Mill Road bridge and the railcar depot, as part of the 1980s remodelling, including the installation of up to date (for 1980) servicing facilities. These were known as Cambridge Carriage Sidings until recently, but now they are known as Cambridge Sidings North to distinguish them from the recently constructed carriage sidings on the site of the old Down Yard opposite platform 8, which are Cambridge Sidings South.

As you say, the old carriage sidings became reception roads after the 1980s remodelling, but stock was only stabled there, awaiting departure, after being serviced in the carriage sidings or the railcar shed.

 

[Steve Harris]

I can second that. Whoever wrote the pages for Cambridge has written a very long and interesting history.

However, what appears to be lacking is any rationale for having just a single platform. Clearly the current island is not the first, but I guess that the answer lies in Cambridge's historic place as a quiet country market town. It's importance as a commuter hub has only really become a factor in the few decades since electrification and the increase in the number of direct rail services to the capital.



A lot of this increase in "through" services is just a way of increasing capacity at Cambridge station since it was added to the Thameslink network without having to build yet more platforms. The Liv St services now terminate at Cambridge North while some of the GN services have been extended through to Ely thereby freeing up platform space for terminating services originating from south of the Thames.

Sorry, but commuters were using Cambridge before eletrification. Normally commuting to London with a far lesser number commuting in from Ely, Newmarket and elsewhere. However, since eletrification, commuting in and out of Cambridge has exploded in comparison to the time before electrification.

You have to remember the seeds of silicon fen were sown before electrification came to the City (It certainly wasn't a sleepy market town in the 70's or 80's as by this time it did have City status) with the BBC Micro Computer invented and built the city in the early 80's. Before that Cambridge was known for PYE radio's and TV's.

 

[Magdalia]

Thanks for

One difference between Limerick Junction and Cambridge is that, as far as I know, there was never a full scissors crossover at the split in the through platform, just a half scissors formed by the two intersecting loops (i.e. you couldn't run straight from one through platform into the other, or use the two as one long platform - although the latter would have been pointless anyway, given that a train long enough to require the two platform faces would probably be too long to handle anywhere else).

The closest Irish analogue to Cambridge was actually Waterford North/Plunkett, from its rebuilding early in the 20th century onward; this had (I think) a main through platform with a full scissors in the middle, enabling it to function as one face or two, plus four bays at the west end and two at the east. (The resulting eight faces were only exceeded at any Irish station when Dublin Heuston was expanded early this century). The layout was gradually rationalised from the 1960s on, and today (pending the eastward relocation of the station) the entire passenger operation uses one of the western bays. The through platform was on a loop off a double-track through line, so there were three tracks between the platform and the rock face opposite. (It was, I believe, a rockfall that precipitated the final abandonment of the through platform a few years ago.) As far as I'm aware, the reason for the layout was an extremely narrow site between a hillside and a road (which itself had to be diverted to build the station).

Thanks for this. I have only been to Ireland once. What you describe as the "half scissors" was at Limerick Junction when I visited. My recollection of Waterford is more vague, but I do remember the narrow gap between the river and the hillside, that was so vertiginous that I would have called it a cliff!

Sorry, but commuters were using Cambridge before eletrification. Normally commuting to London with a far lesser number commuting in from Ely, Newmarket and elsewhere. However, since eletrification, commuting in and out of Cambridge has exploded in comparison to the time before electrification.

You have to remember the seeds of silicon fen were sown before electrification came to the City (It certainly wasn't a sleepy market town in the 70's or 80's as by this time it idid have City status) with the BBC Micro Computer invented and built the city in the early 80's.

The Cambridge-Liverpool Street peak time service was already 3 trains per hour in the 1970s. That's why better carriage servicing facilities were needed!

 

[Steve Harris]

All of that moved to new sidings, between Mill Road bridge and the railcar depot, as part of the 1980s remodelling, including the installation of up to date (for 1980) servicing facilities. These were known as Cambridge Carriage Sidings until recently, but now they are known as Cambridge Sidings North to distinguish them from the recently constructed carriage sidings on the site of the old Down Yard opposite platform 8, which are Cambridge Sidings South.

As you say, the old carriage sidings became reception roads after the 1980s remodelling, but stock was only stabled there, awaiting departure, after being serviced in the carriage sidings or the railcar shed.

Oops a daisy, Railcar depot ? Yes CA/31A/Cambridge TMD did work on Class 101 and 105 railcars but they also mainted the Mk2 coaching stock along with their allocation of 08's, so to call it a railcar depot is a tad unfair.

Also, it wasn't always the case that stock got stabled in the reception roads after servicing, I can certainly remember stock being taken into the reception roads before being taken to what is now Cambridge Carriage Sidings North, mainly because it was total lack of space and a lot of juggling going on to make everything fit in the right order
- pretty much like most carriage sidings/maintenance facilities nowerdays.

As YOU seem to know so much perhaps you can enlighten me on what was on the Cambridge Carriage Sidings North site pre 1980 ? (And I don't mean what's written on the disused stations website, as I have noticed that it is a good source of info but even that contains a few errors). As I said up thread, I was still pretty young before the 80's hit so can't fully remember what was on that site.

The Cambridge-Liverpool Street peak time service was already 3 trains per hour in the 1970s. That's why better carriage servicing facilities were needed!

And it was still 3 tph in the peak all through the 80's with that going down to 1tph off peak, unlike 4tph in the late 90's and 00's.

 

[Magdalia]

The layout was very different in the 1970s. There were 4 running lines between Coldhams Lane* bridge and Mill Road bridge, or 5 if you include the Gas siding. Coldham Lane* Signal Box was actually about halfway between the two bridges. In effect the goods roads ran straight onto the Newmarket line with two pairs of crossovers adjacent to the box, which was in the middle of what's now Cambridge Sidings North. A single track went behind the box to access the railcar shed and the oil siding. There's a map here:

Coldham Lane Junction | Signalbox diagram from Coldham Lane … | Flickr

And I call it the railcar shed because that's what it was built for, and that was its main function until GN electrification. Although the GN's railcar fleet was notionally allocated to Finsbury Park, most of the maintenance was done at Cambridge, apart from the Rolls Royce units, which were maintained at Stratford. Once the GN electrification was complete there was capacity for other work.

* Note this is one of many examples of GER eccentric spelling of locations at variance with that used by everyone else.

 

[Steve Harris]

The layout was very different in the 1970s. There were 4 running lines between Coldhams Lane* bridge and Mill Road bridge, or 5 if you include the Gas siding. Coldham Lane* Signal Box was actually about halfway between the two bridges. In effect the goods roads ran straight onto the Newmarket line with two pairs of crossovers adjacent to the box, which was in the middle of what's now Cambridge Sidings North. A single track went behind the box to access the railcar shed and the oil siding. There's a map here:

Coldham Lane Junction | Signalbox diagram from Coldham Lane … | Flickr

And I call it the railcar shed because that's what it was built for, and that was its main function until GN electrification. Although the GN's railcar fleet was notionally allocated to Finsbury Park, most of the maintenance was done at Cambridge, apart from the Rolls Royce units, which were maintained at Stratford. Once the GN electrification was complete there was capacity for other work.

* Note this is one of many examples of GER eccentric spelling of locations at variance with that used by everyone else.

Seems you haven't really managed to answer my question, possibly because the answer isn't readily available on website's. (And as I've managed to gleen the info from a reliable source I'll answer it myself).
Apart from the extra running lines there were some sidings and railway workshops on that particular site (some of which still stood until relatively recently) which were used by P-Way staff, my dad being one of them !

Btw, for the record, you also failed to mention that Cambridge depot had it's own allocation of DMU's even before the GN eletrification was completed.

 

[mawallace]

There is several mentions of the services terminating at Cambridge.

If you look at http://www.disused-stations.org.uk/c/cambridge/index6.shtml there is list of services timetabled - several of them where through services - so these are nonthin new!

 

[30907]

There is several mentions of the services terminating at Cambridge.

If you look at http://www.disused-stations.org.uk/c/cambridge/index6.shtml there is list of services timetabled - several of them where through services - so these are nonthin new!

Of those listed, the Liverpool Street line was the only one which had more than the occasional train through Cambridge - up to main line dieselisation in about 1959 the main service carried Norwich/Yarmouth and Hunstanton portions, dividing at Ely, and various through coaches including to March and even Bury St E. However, those didn't add significantly to the total.
The diesel timetable was wholly to King's Lynn; the only additional all-year round service from London was the Bury St E train.

 

[Magdalia]

I have now found a picture, looking north from Mill Road bridge, that shows the layout in May 1978, before the 1980s remodelling.

31 193 Cambridge Mill Road | On an evening in May 1978, 3119… | Flickr

The sand in the "four foot" on the right shows the route normally taken by the sand train from Fen Drayton to reach the up yard, going through where Cambridge Sidings North are now.

 

[Steve Harris]

I have now found a picture, looking north from Mill Road bridge, that shows the layout in May 1978, before the 1980s remodelling.

31 193 Cambridge Mill Road | On an evening in May 1978, 3119… | Flickr

The sand in the "four foot" on the right shows the route normally taken by the sand train from Fen Drayton to reach the up yard, going through where Cambridge Sidings North are now.

Thank you

 

[O L Leigh]

Sorry, but commuters were using Cambridge before eletrification. Normally commuting to London with a far lesser number commuting in from Ely, Newmarket and elsewhere. However, since eletrification, commuting in and out of Cambridge has exploded in comparison to the time before electrification.

You have to remember the seeds of silicon fen were sown before electrification came to the City (It certainly wasn't a sleepy market town in the 70's or 80's as by this time it did have City status) with the BBC Micro Computer invented and built the city in the early 80's. Before that Cambridge was known for PYE radio's and TV's.

Yes I am very aware of Cambridge's history and the development of the station. I was not suggesting that the rise in Cambridge as a commuter hub came all at once or that there was no commuting before the wires went up, but rather that it's importance as such has increased dramatically since electrification, which is the same thing as you're saying.

I agree about the Ely ones, but the others would appear to have a real commercial reason to run through, arising from the need to provide a decent service at Cambridge North and to connect Stansted Airport to places beyond Cambridge. I've not been there since before the island platform, but I remember the concourse being very cramped, so perhaps not the best place for lots of airport passengers to be changing trains with luggage.

Compared to the recent history, the only new through service really is the Norwich - Stansted Airport service. The others are simply extensions of services that would have previously terminated. No doubt there is a commercial reason for serving Cambridge North (otherwise the station would never have been built), but as well as this it provides an additional platform for terminating services that mean that the stock is no longer taking up space at Cambridge allowing for an increase in service capacity that would otherwise not have been possible.

The concourse and ticket office has been enlarged greatly since your last visit, although the platform immediately behind the gateline tends to be a bit of a bottleneck as people work out how to get to the platform they need. It's still not a perfect arrangement, but then it never will be. I find that the biggest issue is folk waiting on P4 obstructing those trying to get to the other higher numbered platforms. Many people do travel with luggage (and bikes), but not all are heading for the airport.

 

[edwin_m]

Compared to the recent history, the only new through service really is the Norwich - Stansted Airport service. The others are simply extensions of services that would have previously terminated. No doubt there is a commercial reason for serving Cambridge North (otherwise the station would never have been built), but as well as this it provides an additional platform for terminating services that mean that the stock is no longer taking up space at Cambridge allowing for an increase in service capacity that would otherwise not have been possible.

That's true, and I think the Norwich train also terminated at Cambridge for a while before it was extended. However I think it's also true that the extensions of these services beyond Cambridge provided a worthwhile benefit for passengers as well as being operationally convenient. However most of them are short enough to have used a bay when they terminated at Cambridge, and they now need through platforms. I suspect the bays thus freed up are rather under-used today, especially at the north end.

The concourse and ticket office has been enlarged greatly since your last visit, although the platform immediately behind the gateline tends to be a bit of a bottleneck as people work out how to get to the platform they need. It's still not a perfect arrangement, but then it never will be. I find that the biggest issue is folk waiting on P4 obstructing those trying to get to the other higher numbered platforms. Many people do travel with luggage (and bikes), but not all are heading for the airport.

Thanks for the update. I remember the single ticket barrier in the 1980s with people trying to get through both ways, as others getting in the way when trying to decipher the flickering CRT departures screen.

 

[O L Leigh]

I suspect the bays thus freed up are rather under-used today, especially at the north end.

The south bays are still well used and are frequently both occupied at the times I breeze through while the north bays have always (in comparatively recent terms ) been less well utilised. These days it's just the Ipswich service and occasional terminators coming from Norwich or the Midlands. There used to be a WA service that went from Liv St to Ely and then empty back to Cambridge before going to Ely a second time which would use P5, but I'm unsure if that still exists.

 

[2192]

When there was only one long through platform did up through trains use mostly the south end (pl 1), and down through trains mostly the north end (pl 4); or vice versa; or some of each? (thanks).

 

[Steve Harris]

When there was only one long through platform did up through trains use mostly the south end (pl 1), and down through trains mostly the north end (pl 4); or vice versa; or some of each? (thanks).

Back in the 80's before electrification down trains used to predominantly use platform 4 (by running through platform 1 without stopping unless P1 was already occupied, if P1 was occupied the through road and scissors would be used), and up trains predominantly used platform 1 (but used the through road and scissors crossing to gain access). This was for through services and the latter was also used for services starting from Cambridge but originating from the carriage sidings.
Terminating services that would form a return service to Liverpool Street would normally arrive and depart from P1. Any terminating services which would go ECS to the carriage sidings would typically use P4.

All this changed of course when EMU's arrived and certainly when the Cambridge Cruiser services came into being. (I can certainly remember Cambridge Cruiser services starting from P4).

No surprise really as Cambridge - London services (both London stations) went from typically 3tph off peak to 5 or 6tph. And then add in the Birmingham - Stanstead Airport services and space was at a premium.

Hence why P7/8 was built.

 

[Magdalia]

When there was only one long through platform did up through trains use mostly the south end (pl 1), and down through trains mostly the north end (pl 4); or vice versa; or some of each? (thanks).

Yes. Prior to the 1980s remodelling the down road ran straight onto the through road at Cambridge South, over the scissors crossing into platform 4 then straight by Cambridge North. The up road ran straight onto the through road at Cambridge North, over the scissors crossing into platform 1, then over the diamond crossovers at Cambridge South.

In diesel days some down terminating trains used platform 1, especially if the loco ran round to form an up starter. Most of the Cambridge Buffet Expresses did this. Notable up trains starting from platform 4 were the up Bury go round, so that it could be overtaken by the up Fenman, and the 153x to Liverpool Street, because the 1530 to Kings Cross had platform 1.

Non-stopping trains mostly used the goods roads, including diverted ECML passenger trains.

After the 1980s remodelling, including the realignment of the south end of platform 1, the down road ran straight through platform 1, so down trains had to cross onto the through road and back again if platform 1 was occupied. But the layout was used much as before.

After through trains resumed in 1992 it became much more random. Many more up trains started from platform 4, especially those coming empty from the carriage sidings.

Now the old through platforms 1 and 4 are effectively the down platforms, with most up through trains using the island platforms 7 and 8. A notable exception to this is the up Norwich-Stansted service which usually goes from platform 4.

 

[jopsuk]

for local commuting, it would be better if even fewer trains terminated at Cambridge- especially after Cambridge South station opens. most specifically, all trains that stop at all stations Royston-Cambridge and Bishops Stortford-Cambridge should go at least as far as Cambridge North (for the Business Park, Science Park and other major employment sites in the area

 

[bspahh]

I've not been there since before the island platform, but I remember the concourse being very cramped, so perhaps not the best place for lots of airport passengers to be changing trains with luggage.

There is a new virtual tour of Cambridge station at https://virtualtour.greateranglia.co.uk/greater_anglia/ where you can see the ticket hall and platforms from ground level and aerial photos

https://www.greateranglia.co.uk/travel-information/your-journey/virtual-tours says that there will be similar plans for these stations:

Norwich
Ipswich
Colchester
Chelmsford
Shenfield
Southend Victoria
Bishops Stortford
Broxbourne
Stansted Airport