Cambridge South new station construction progress.

[cle]

The work at Ponders End is not about increasing capacity, but enables more trains to call at Meridian Water (albeit with compromises to some other services)

The third Cambridge is very unlikely due to a whole host of reasons, but primarily because the timetable won’t work.

So the the Ponders End work just to enable more through trains to call at Meridian Water - separate to the 3-4tph to Stratford "STAR" service?

Recast, yes, supposed to be at same time as ECML. Won’t be that much in terms of speeding up though.

Anything you're able to hint about the recast? Any gains from the Hertford East line works?

 

[lammergeier]

Recast, yes, supposed to be at same time as ECML. Won’t be that much in terms of speeding up though.

Do you have any further info regarding the proposed ECML recast and if/when(?) it might happen? Are we still looking at no sooner than Dec '23 if at all?

 

[Bald Rick]

So the the Ponders End work just to enable more through trains to call at Meridian Water - separate to the 3-4tph to Stratford "STAR" service?

The ‘STAR’ service is, and remains, 2tph on the third line. No change there.

And yes, the Ponders End work is there to enable a slower train to be overtaken by a faster train, which means the slower train then has sufficient margin to stop additionally at Meridian Water. That, of course, puts an extra 6-8 minutes into the slower train, which people from stations north of Ponders End might have something to say about. It also tightens the timetable up, ie delays will be less easy to recover from.

Anything you're able to hint about the recast? Any gains from the Hertford East line works?

no, sorry. Hertford East works was for longer trains though, not more of them.

Do you have any further info regarding the proposed ECML recast and if/when(?) it might happen? Are we still looking at no sooner than Dec '23 if at all?

My Crystal ball is cloudy, with a chance of showers. No idea.

 

[Class 170101]

Do you have any further info regarding the proposed ECML recast and if/when(?) it might happen? Are we still looking at no sooner than Dec '23 if at all?

To quote ABBA, Money Money Money

 

[cle]

Got it, thanks. I think I was using STAR re all Stratfords rather than just the shuttles on the third line (which is entirely separate to the Ponders End loop) - so the Bishops Stortford/Hertford East - Stratfords would be separate. So Meridian Water will get these calls (Stratford-Bish), or Liverpool St ones?

Ian Visits' article had this:
Although this project upgrades the line to support four trains per hour on the line through Meridian Water from the middle of 2024, there is also other funding to add more tracks between Meridian Water and Tottenham Hale later which will increase capacity south of Meridian Water to eight trains per hour in the peak period.

Is this something actually happening? Or CR2 wishful thinking? Really the whole thing should be four tracked from Tottenham Hale to Meridian Water at minimum.

 

[Bald Rick]

Got it, thanks. I think I was using STAR re all Stratfords rather than just the shuttles on the third line (which is entirely separate to the Ponders End loop) - so the Bishops Stortford/Hertford East - Stratfords would be separate. So Meridian Water will get these calls (Stratford-Bish), or Liverpool St ones?

Ian Visits' article had this:
Although this project upgrades the line to support four trains per hour on the line through Meridian Water from the middle of 2024, there is also other funding to add more tracks between Meridian Water and Tottenham Hale later which will increase capacity south of Meridian Water to eight trains per hour in the peak period.

Is this something actually happening? Or CR2 wishful thinking? Really the whole thing should be four tracked from Tottenham Hale to Meridian Water at minimum.

Wishful thinking, in my opinion.

Four tracking would need to be from Coppermill junction to Meridian Water, and it would be largely abortive in a CR2 world.

 

[cle]

I can't see CR2 really happening. What I can envisage is Stratford as a second terminus with 6-8tph, Tottenham with four platforms, and growth coming that way, if there were more tracks.

I digress though, I don't think this relates that much to Cambridge South! Other than maybe that elusive third tph.

 

[unlevel42]

Approval

Cambridge South infrastructure enhancement: Transport and Works Order
Approval for a new railway station in South Cambridge.​

Decision letter and inspector’s report published.

 

[mr_moo]

Wow that's a lot of documents to get your head around!! Really pleased it's been granted though (I may be slightly biased here...)

 

[Bald Rick]

Great news. And also a good example of how much work goes into gaining consent for what is, compared to many proposals, a relatively straightforward project. Great effort by the team involved for the last 3-4 years.

Also a great lesson for what happens if you go into a Public Inquiry without having thought through your proposal - see the comprehensive dismissal of the alternative put forward by Smarter Cambridge Transport (Section 10.4). Not a very ‘Smart’ proposal.

 

[cle]

Is there a definitive note on what will and won't call here? And the line speed / quadding changes?

 

[Maltazer]

Is there a definitive note on what will and won't call here? And the line speed / quadding changes?

It only covers things they need permission for. So there's definitely an aim to increase linespeed through Shepreth branch junction because there is a map showing a realignment of the curve and associated land take, but there's no map showing the cross-over and whether that is being replaced with a longer, higher speed alternative (presumably because any work would be within the existing boundary)

The only quad-track section is through the station itself.

 

[mr_moo]

Yep, the crossover is being replaced too. The whole junction is 30mph today and will be 50mph in future. (Not sure I can point you to any publically available info showing that yet, but I know that to be true).

Agreed re the four-tracking - Apart from the platform loops (Cambridge South will have 4 platforms), there's no further four-tracking in any scope that I'm aware of, and certainly not in the scope for the CSIE (Cambridge South Infrastructure Enhancements) project.

Note there is a small extension to a loop just South of Cambridge etc - so this extends the 4-track section out of Cambridge by a short distance (near Hills road bridge), but it's nothing major, just addition of a loop to create more parallel moves and thus capacity out of Cambridge heading Southbound.

 

[William3000]

Heading north there is essentially going to be 800 metres of three tracking north of Shepreth Junction - or rather separation of lines a bit further north; then 500 metres of 2 tracking; then four tracking from just south of Cambridge South to just north of it; then 700 metres of 2 tracking; then 3 tracking for about 1.5km until 4 tracking just south of Hills Rd bridge. My understanding is that the whole stretch from Cambridge (Central) to Shepreth junction will be four tracked as and when East West Rail comes forward.

 

[Magdalia]

I recall that there was a simple diagrammatic map of the proposed track changes as part of the second round of consultation in October 2020. But that was all conducted online and I can't find a copy of it now.

Apart from the platform loops (Cambridge South will have 4 platforms), there's no further four-tracking in .... the scope for the CSIE (Cambridge South Infrastructure Enhancements) project.

That's my understanding too.

The whole junction is 30mph today and will be 50mph in future. (Not sure I can point you to any publically available info showing that yet, but I know that to be true).

I did save a copy of the October 2020 Stakeholder Information Pack, which said the following:

Shepreth Branch Junction

5.2.53 At this location works involve the realignment of the existing track at Shepreth Branch Junction to permit the line speed through the junction to be increased from 30mph to 50mph. This requires new track to be constructed to the west of Network Rail’s existing land ownership. Additionally, track realignment of the Royston branch curve is required for these line speed improvements.
5.2.54 These works are required to maintain performance of train services for passengers.
5.2.55 Approximately 30 new portal and single-track cantilever structures will be constructed. Some of these will replace existing structures.
5.2.56 Works may also be required to alter the existing stepped footbridge (ref BGK/1543B) which crosses the WAML and lines at Shepreth Branch Junction to maintain safety for users of the footbridge following any changes to the infrastructure. The exact scope is to be confirmed.
5.2.57 Two private level crossings, namely Websters and Dukes No.2 level crossings, are proposed to be closed and alternative access provided.
5.2.58 An existing GSM-R Mast will need to be relocated to the west side of the railway to allow new track to be installed.

As far as I can tell the two down lines will converge somewhere near to Dukes No2 crossing.

Note there is a small extension to a loop just South of Cambridge etc - so this extends the 4-track section out of Cambridge by a short distance (near Hills road bridge), but it's nothing major, just addition of a loop to create more parallel moves and thus capacity out of Cambridge heading Southbound.

This part can proceed under Network Rail's existing powers so it was not included in the Transport and Works Act Order Application. The October 2020 Stakeholder Information Pack also said the following:

Southern approach into Cambridge Station

5.2.59 In summary the works involve an extension to the existing shunt spur and the addition of a crossover which will connect the shunt spur to the WAML. This will provide more flexibility for train movements into Cambridge Station.
5.2.60 The extension of the shunt spur and the crossover will have overhead line. There will be around 10 new portal and single-track cantilever structures within the existing railway boundary.
5.2.61 The works are located wholly within Network Rail’s operational land ownership.

As far as I can tell the loop will converge with the existing up line somewhere near the end of Purbeck Road (I've counted the masts).

My understanding is that the whole stretch from Cambridge (Central) to Shepreth junction will be four tracked as and when East West Rail comes forward.

I recall being told that too, possibly as part of the second round of consultation, but I'm not aware that it is written down anywhere.

 

[mr_moo]

I recall that there was a simple diagrammatic map of the proposed track changes as part of the second round of consultation in October 2020. But that was all conducted online and I can't find a copy of it now.

There's a repository of a lot (all?) of the documents here: https://gateleyhamer-pi.com/en-gb/csie/inquiry-documents/
No idea if that one's in it, but worth a rummage.

 

[adamedwards]

As regards what stops I would assume most trains will with the possible exception of the non-stop London trains, but I could also see a need for an Ely to Cambridge South service for access to the hospital, so the Kings Lynn and Ely trains may stop too.

It's going to be a major traffic draw given the hospital and labs and the residential areas a short walk away. Indeed, taking pressure off Cambridge (not very Central) will also be a useful benefit of the new station.

 

[mr_moo]

Indeed, and it will have stops on the adjacent guided busway so that will form a useful link to a variety of places.
There's also substantial cycle storage provision included, so it's expected to be quite a draw for cyclists from a large area.

 

[dk1]

As regards what stops I would assume most trains will with the possible exception of the non-stop London trains, but I could also see a need for an Ely to Cambridge South service for access to the hospital, so the Kings Lynn and Ely trains may stop too.

It's going to be a major traffic draw given the hospital and labs and the residential areas a short walk away. Indeed, taking pressure off Cambridge (not very Central) will also be a useful benefit of the new station.

Obviously the Norwich-Stansted service will call here serving Ely but I expect Lynn & Ely GN services will call either from the outset or similar to Cambridge North once traffic builds up.

 

[Bald Rick]

As regards what stops I would assume most trains will with the possible exception of the non-stop London trains, but I could also see a need for an Ely to Cambridge South service for access to the hospital, so the Kings Lynn and Ely trains may stop too.

It's going to be a major traffic draw given the hospital and labs and the residential areas a short walk away. Indeed, taking pressure off Cambridge (not very Central) will also be a useful benefit of the new station.

The services from Birmingham/ Norwich to Stansted will cover the Ely flows.

 

[dk1]

The services from Birmingham/ Norwich to Stansted will cover the Ely flows.

Will be interesting to see if XC call.

 

[Brubulus]

Will be interesting to see if XC call.

XC is still bi hourly south of Cambridge for most of the day so not very useful from Cambridge South.

 

[cle]

And I assume everything from Liverpool Street, and Thameslink too. But not 'Cruisers' ?

 

[dk1]

XC is still bi hourly south of Cambridge for most of the day so not very useful from Cambridge South.

I wouldn’t think that matters as we are talking years away. I meant because they chose not to serve the North station.

 

[William3000]

As regards what stops I would assume most trains will with the possible exception of the non-stop London trains, but I could also see a need for an Ely to Cambridge South service for access to the hospital, so the Kings Lynn and Ely trains may stop too.

It's going to be a major traffic draw given the hospital and labs and the residential areas a short walk away. Indeed, taking pressure off Cambridge (not very Central) will also be a useful benefit of the new station.

My guess is that the following would stop:
Brighton to Cambridge (Central) (semi-fast) x2 per hour in each direction
London King’s Cross to Cambridge (Central) (slow) x 2 per hour in each direction
London Liverpool Street to Cambridge North x2 per hour (slow and semi-fast) in each direction
Stansted Airport to Norwich x1 per hour in each direction

With the following not stopping:
London King’s Cross to Ely x1 per hour (fast) in each direction
London King’s Cross to King’s Lynn x1 per hour (fast) in each direction
Stansted Airport to Birmingham New Street x1 per hour in each direction

However the above while potentially logical would leave some areas north of Cambridge North not that well connected with Ely only getting 1 train per hour and stations north of that on the Fen Line to King’s Lynn and Hereward Line to Peterborough requiring a change while Audley End, Whittlesford Parkway (3 per hour) and Royston, Baldock, Letchworth GC, Hitchin would get 4 per hour; stations east of Cambridge on the Newmarket line would require a change but there would be 7 trains an hour to Cambridge (Central).

As regards what stops I would assume most trains will with the possible exception of the non-stop London trains, but I could also see a need for an Ely to Cambridge South service for access to the hospital, so the Kings Lynn and Ely trains may stop too.

It's going to be a major traffic draw given the hospital and labs and the residential areas a short walk away. Indeed, taking pressure off Cambridge (not very Central) will also be a useful benefit of the new station.

Given the long distance cross country services between Stansted Airport and Birmingham New Street don’t stop at Cambridge North I would be surprised if they stop at Cambridge South.

 

[dk1]

Given the long distance cross country services between Stansted Airport and Birmingham New Street don’t stop at Cambridge North I would be surprised if they stop at Cambridge South.

Oddly enough ITV Anglia News tonight announced that the new station had overcome a major development hurdle & would offer direct trains to London, Ely, Stansted & Birmingham.

 

[William3000]

Oddly enough ITV Anglia News tonight announced that the new station had overcome a major development hurdle & would offer direct trains to London, Ely, Stansted & Birmingham.

Will be interesting to see if they do - I would expect Cambridge South to be the sixth busiest station on that line behind Birmingham New Street, Cambridge, Stansted Airport, Leicester, and Peterborough so there could be a case but given it’s almost an intercity style service (albeit with a 170) two stops within 3.5km of each other seems unlikely to me.

 

[Megafuss]

Great news. And also a good example of how much work goes into gaining consent for what is, compared to many proposals, a relatively straightforward project. Great effort by the team involved for the last 3-4 years.

Also a great lesson for what happens if you go into a Public Inquiry without having thought through your proposal - see the comprehensive dismissal of the alternative put forward by Smarter Cambridge Transport (Section 10.4). Not a very ‘Smart’ proposal.

I must say that after many eyeball rolling moments reading the guff they have come out with through the years through the local Cambridge press, I did enjoy some of the responses. Talk about killing with kindness.

 

[Brubulus]

Will be interesting to see if they do - I would expect Cambridge South to be the sixth busiest station on that line behind Birmingham New Street, Cambridge, Stansted Airport, Leicester, and Peterborough so there could be a case but given it’s almost an intercity style service (albeit with a 170) two stops within 3.5km of each other seems unlikely to me.

Especially unlikely given that XC almost seem desperate for you not to use this train given the almost abysmal connections it tends to offer for much of its route. Northbound services leaving slightly before the hour isn't great for commuting either.

 

[William3000]

I recognise why the twin island platforms were dismissed and I assume the platforms will be broadly as follows: 1 and 2 towards London LS/KX and Stansted. In terms of 3 and 4 towards Cambridge - there could be potentially for a bit of platform swapping depending on which train comes in first.