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Can I get fined for being uncooperative to a TFL inspector?

XuX

New Member
Joined
2 May 2024
Messages
1
Location
London
Context: Ive been in the uk for 2 years, not that long but also not short enough to not know the what to expect on normally at the tube. The thing is, I've never seen or had an inspection before. I may have heard it but at most a passing thought, I didn't really now they existed (beyond just assuming the existence of tfl security)

So I was on the way home and it was a slightly empty train and 2 inspectors came up to me. Now it may be cause Im too paranoid, but I full heartedly thought it was a scam. Mainly because they were in normal clothes (which I later found is normal?) and they were very aggressive in the way they spoke.

To be honest its hard to remember because I got so frazzeled I blanked but they kept threatening (by saying Ill be fined, how theyre going to take down my information, or theyll take me out at the next station). Fortunately enough, the next stop was actually my last stop so I just went with them on that thought, saying sure lets go out (because then we can talk to the staff, again I was probably wrong but I was fully assuming this was a scam at this point by how unprofessional everything was).

They showed me their badge as proof and their scanner, but to someone who knows nothing about this, I could not be sure that they were real because... I dont know what a real one is meant to look like. Since I tap, they wanted me to tap the scanner and Ive heard of more than enough payment scams to just do it so easily. They pointed to an individual in the back saying he taped (it was pretty empty and only a few others were in) but to me this didn't prove anything as its not hard to believe they could get an extra to act for them (and I didnt even see the interaction).

Even more, as we walked out the tube they kept complaining about this wasting time and how I should just tap, but the thing was they werent even in any haste to get to the staff (heck they kept stopping every now and then walking to and up the stairs). Even at the end after everything was resolved, one partonized me saying I was too paranoid while the other complained how I now made him miss his train. Which are both fair arguments but... man its not something needed to be said and just seemed so unproffesional.

At the end we did reach a staff at the toll and I also quickly check online that there are tfl inspectors, so I tapped my phone on their device in the end (proving that yes I payed my fares). To be honest even if it wasnt one, everything just felt like a scam but now,

Question: I'm actually worried if they could still fine me in the future for any foreseeable reason.

Apologies for the long message, Im both actually worried and also just needed to see if what happened was indeed normal. And if anyone knows, is there any sure way to make sure tfl inspectors are real? besides just looking at their id.
 
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AlterEgo

Veteran Member
Joined
30 Dec 2008
Messages
20,377
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No longer here
Context: Ive been in the uk for 2 years, not that long but also not short enough to not know the what to expect on normally at the tube. The thing is, I've never seen or had an inspection before. I may have heard it but at most a passing thought, I didn't really now they existed (beyond just assuming the existence of tfl security)

So I was on the way home and it was a slightly empty train and 2 inspectors came up to me. Now it may be cause Im too paranoid, but I full heartedly thought it was a scam. Mainly because they were in normal clothes (which I later found is normal?) and they were very aggressive in the way they spoke.

To be honest its hard to remember because I got so frazzeled I blanked but they kept threatening (by saying Ill be fined, how theyre going to take down my information, or theyll take me out at the next station). Fortunately enough, the next stop was actually my last stop so I just went with them on that thought, saying sure lets go out (because then we can talk to the staff, again I was probably wrong but I was fully assuming this was a scam at this point by how unprofessional everything was).

They showed me their badge as proof and their scanner, but to someone who knows nothing about this, I could not be sure that they were real because... I dont know what a real one is meant to look like. Since I tap, they wanted me to tap the scanner and Ive heard of more than enough payment scams to just do it so easily. They pointed to an individual in the back saying he taped (it was pretty empty and only a few others were in) but to me this didn't prove anything as its not hard to believe they could get an extra to act for them (and I didnt even see the interaction).

Even more, as we walked out the tube they kept complaining about this wasting time and how I should just tap, but the thing was they werent even in any haste to get to the staff (heck they kept stopping every now and then walking to and up the stairs). Even at the end after everything was resolved, one partonized me saying I was too paranoid while the other complained how I now made him miss his train. Which are both fair arguments but... man its not something needed to be said and just seemed so unproffesional.

At the end we did reach a staff at the toll and I also quickly check online that there are tfl inspectors, so I tapped my phone on their device in the end (proving that yes I payed my fares). To be honest even if it wasnt one, everything just felt like a scam but now,

Question: I'm actually worried if they could still fine me in the future for any foreseeable reason.

Apologies for the long message, Im both actually worried and also just needed to see if what happened was indeed normal. And if anyone knows, is there any sure way to make sure tfl inspectors are real? besides just looking at their id.
After the fact you could ask TfL but to be honest modern society works on the basis that people in authority who show you legitimate ID should be trusted. Nobody expects you to memorise every form of ID.

What happened to you is entirely normal, and not unique to London or the UK. Plain clothes inspectors are common worldwide.
 

WesternLancer

Established Member
Joined
12 Apr 2019
Messages
7,277
Context: Ive been in the uk for 2 years, not that long but also not short enough to not know the what to expect on normally at the tube. The thing is, I've never seen or had an inspection before. I may have heard it but at most a passing thought, I didn't really now they existed (beyond just assuming the existence of tfl security)

So I was on the way home and it was a slightly empty train and 2 inspectors came up to me. Now it may be cause Im too paranoid, but I full heartedly thought it was a scam. Mainly because they were in normal clothes (which I later found is normal?) and they were very aggressive in the way they spoke.

To be honest its hard to remember because I got so frazzeled I blanked but they kept threatening (by saying Ill be fined, how theyre going to take down my information, or theyll take me out at the next station). Fortunately enough, the next stop was actually my last stop so I just went with them on that thought, saying;)

They showed me their badge as proof and their scanner, but to someone who knows nothing about this, I could not be sure that they were real because... I dont know what a real one is meant to look like. Since I tap, they wanted me to tap the scanner and Ive heard of more than enough payment scams to just do it so easily. They pointed to an individual in the back saying he taped (it was pretty empty and only a few others were in) but to me this didn't prove anything as its not hard to believe they could get an extra to act for them (and I didnt even see the interaction).

Even more, as we walked out the tube they kept complaining about this wasting time and how I should just tap, but the thing was they werent even in any haste to get to the staff (heck they kept stopping every now and then walking to and up the stairs). Even at the end after everything was resolved, one partonized me saying I was too paranoid while the other complained how I now made him miss his train. Which are both fair arguments but... man its not something needed to be said and just seemed so unproffesional.

At the end we did reach a staff at the toll and I also quickly check online that there are tfl inspectors, so I tapped my phone on their device in the end (proving that yes I payed my fares). To be honest even if it wasnt one, everything just felt like a scam but now,

Question: I'm actually worried if they could still fine me in the future for any foreseeable reason.

Apologies for the long message, Im both actually worried and also just needed to see if what happened was indeed normal. And if anyone knows, is there any sure way to make sure tfl inspectors are real? besides just looking at their id.
They can't fine you if you paid for your journey. They might not have liked the way you responded to their requests but that's tough luck for them in my view.

They can fine you in future, but only if you have not paid you fare. Not just because they found your stance annoying.

One would like to think that because this is Great Britain, your word should be your bond. ;)
 

bramling

Veteran Member
Joined
5 Mar 2012
Messages
17,825
Location
Hertfordshire / Teesdale
Context: Ive been in the uk for 2 years, not that long but also not short enough to not know the what to expect on normally at the tube. The thing is, I've never seen or had an inspection before. I may have heard it but at most a passing thought, I didn't really now they existed (beyond just assuming the existence of tfl security)

So I was on the way home and it was a slightly empty train and 2 inspectors came up to me. Now it may be cause Im too paranoid, but I full heartedly thought it was a scam. Mainly because they were in normal clothes (which I later found is normal?) and they were very aggressive in the way they spoke.

To be honest its hard to remember because I got so frazzeled I blanked but they kept threatening (by saying Ill be fined, how theyre going to take down my information, or theyll take me out at the next station). Fortunately enough, the next stop was actually my last stop so I just went with them on that thought, saying sure lets go out (because then we can talk to the staff, again I was probably wrong but I was fully assuming this was a scam at this point by how unprofessional everything was).

They showed me their badge as proof and their scanner, but to someone who knows nothing about this, I could not be sure that they were real because... I dont know what a real one is meant to look like. Since I tap, they wanted me to tap the scanner and Ive heard of more than enough payment scams to just do it so easily. They pointed to an individual in the back saying he taped (it was pretty empty and only a few others were in) but to me this didn't prove anything as its not hard to believe they could get an extra to act for them (and I didnt even see the interaction).

Even more, as we walked out the tube they kept complaining about this wasting time and how I should just tap, but the thing was they werent even in any haste to get to the staff (heck they kept stopping every now and then walking to and up the stairs). Even at the end after everything was resolved, one partonized me saying I was too paranoid while the other complained how I now made him miss his train. Which are both fair arguments but... man its not something needed to be said and just seemed so unproffesional.

At the end we did reach a staff at the toll and I also quickly check online that there are tfl inspectors, so I tapped my phone on their device in the end (proving that yes I payed my fares). To be honest even if it wasnt one, everything just felt like a scam but now,

Question: I'm actually worried if they could still fine me in the future for any foreseeable reason.

Apologies for the long message, Im both actually worried and also just needed to see if what happened was indeed normal. And if anyone knows, is there any sure way to make sure tfl inspectors are real? besides just looking at their id.

I think the answer is that if you’re going to be difficult then you need to be 100% sure your ticketing arrangements are in full order.

I did once play the arse with a guard who was extremely abrupt to the point where I found his manner very rude.
 

AlterEgo

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30 Dec 2008
Messages
20,377
Location
No longer here
They can't fine you if you paid for your journey.
They could report for prosecution if they asked the OP’s name and address following their refusal to tap their card and they refused to give it, though.

It seems like that did not happen in this case, however.
 

WesternLancer

Established Member
Joined
12 Apr 2019
Messages
7,277
They could report for prosecution if they asked the OP’s name and address following their refusal to tap their card and they refused to give it, though.

It seems like that did not happen in this case, however.
Good point. Tho not sure we have seen any cases of that on this forum in recent times/years have we?
 

Deafdoggie

Established Member
Joined
29 Sep 2016
Messages
3,146
I did once play the arse with a guard who was extremely abrupt to the point where I found his manner very rude.
I've had members of staff fail the attitude test, so I see no issue in being unhelpful back.
 

Royston Vasey

Established Member
Joined
14 May 2008
Messages
2,208
Location
Cambridge
I don't blame the OP at all. I would be very hesitant to tap my bank card for someone who approaches me in plain clothes, seemingly aggressively, and just asks me to tap their reader.

Many card readers and ticket scanners are just smartphones in a case these days (not familiar with TfL's), so it feels like it would be an easy scam to pull. Dress up all in black, install a payment app, set it up for £100 a time and go round asking people to tap their cards...
 
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talldave

Established Member
Joined
24 Jan 2013
Messages
2,190
I don't blame the OP at all. I would be very hesitant to tap my bank card for someone who approaches me in plain clothes, seemingly aggressively, and just asks me to tap their reader.

Many card readers and ticket scanners are just smartphones in a case these days (not faniliar with TfL's, so it feels like it would be an easy scam to pull. Dress up all in black, install a payment app, set it up for £100 a time and go round asking people to tap their cards...
A situation where Oyster has a definite advantage.
 

Pushpit

Member
Joined
18 Nov 2023
Messages
145
Location
UK
I am also sympathetic to the OP, given they were not in uniform. The outcome - checking with uniformed station staff - seems reasonable. The alternative would be a polite request for the BTP to confirm their identities or otherwise to attend, but that's a non trivial request. I think the OP should complain to TfL - naming names - if the RPIs treated the OP as anything other than a valued customer. Their attitude, as reported, doesn't sound great. I can't see the OP getting into trouble since they held a valid ticket.
 

Fermiboson

Member
Joined
7 Jan 2024
Messages
383
Location
Oxford/London/West Yorkshire
Legalities aside, why did the staff member decide, upon being accused of being a scammer, to proceed with one of the most common scammer tactics ever (threaten prosecution)? Under what scenario could this possibly establish their authority, make their job easier, or otherwise be of any benefit to anyone?
 

Class93

Member
Joined
4 May 2023
Messages
46
Location
London
Do feel free to put in a complaint in as that just isn’t on. It’s literally their job to deal with difficult punters and moaning between themselves about a valid reason to challenge isn’t good enough.
 
Joined
5 Sep 2014
Messages
20
My advice here would be to ask for a uniformed member of staff to verify the credentials of the inspector if you are unsure. Any Inspector worth their Salt would not take offence if you do this.
 

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