Can rail staff travel first class when going to work?

[Jan Mayen]

I was recently traveling on a Southern train with a First Class ticket. It was a 4 carriage class 377/4, with a First class compartment either end. I got on the front end.
In the ten seat compartment was one other person who was wearing a (non Southern) railway uniform. They were on their way to work. I know this from the telephone call they made (which I regard as a more serious offence than traveling First with a Standard ticket
Anyway, it made me wonder if they would have had a First Class pass, or if it was just considered an unofficial perk of the job.
A second thought is if all First Class seats were taken, would it be reasonable to ask rail staff in uniform to move?

 

[Runningaround]

I was recently traveling on a Southern train with a First Class ticket. It was a 4 carriage class 377/4, with a First class compartment either end. I got on the front end.
In the ten seat compartment was one other person who was wearing a (non Southern) railway uniform. They were on their way to work. I know this from the telephone call they made (which I regard as a more serious offence than traveling First with a Standard ticket )
Anyway, it made me wonder if they would have had a First Class pass, or if it was just considered an unofficial perk of the job.
A second thought is if all First Class seats were taken, would it be reasonable to ask rail staff in uniform to move?

Anyone on a free pass should vacate there seat for a fare paying passenger, they are employed to serve the public who in turn finance their salary.

 

[Scott1]

Rail staff traveling first class should always give priority to passengers where there are not enough seats. Some staff have permenant first class passes and some a set number of upgrades via boxes on their pass. I can't speak for other TOCs but on the three on my patch it is generally a perk for staff if there is room and the gaurd is happy for you to sit there. It's dependant mostly on passenger loadings, but on a Saturday night train when your passing its nice to have somewhere a bit quieter, and from a gaurd a perspective it's handy knowing where another staff member is if you need a hand.

 

[John Luxton]

I was recently traveling on a Southern train with a First Class ticket. It was a 4 carriage class 377/4, with a First class compartment either end. I got on the front end.
In the ten seat compartment was one other person who was wearing a (non Southern) railway uniform. They were on their way to work. I know this from the telephone call they made (which I regard as a more serious offence than traveling First with a Standard ticket )
Anyway, it made me wonder if they would have had a First Class pass, or if it was just considered an unofficial perk of the job.
A second thought is if all First Class seats were taken, would it be reasonable to ask rail staff in uniform to move?

I have travelled on TPE Nova 1s and the row of windowless seats in first closest to the the staff compartment have been a gathering place of staff travelling on the cushions. But I imagine most pax would not want to use those seats anyway.

Changing to another mode of travel I for years I have been a member of the Isle of Man Steam Packet Co Executive Lounge and I note that the lounge is sometimes a place where off duty crew travel.

 

[Carntyne]

If you're on ScotRail, the first-class coach is practically a staff messroom.

 

[ComUtoR]

Were they on the the way to work or traveling pass whilst on duty ?

 

[High Dyke]

Had the person asked permission to travel in there? I was travelling on a Hull Trains service the other week, but needed to buy a priv ticket for the journey I was making. The guard first told me the priv was fine, without buying a ticket and also offered the chance to sit in first-class. [For clarification] I have non-safeguarded standard priv travel.

 

[bengley]

Anyone on a free pass should vacate there seat for a fare paying passenger, they are employed to serve the public who in turn finance their salary.

Irrelevant. There was one other person in there according to the OP so not full and so nobody needed to vacate their seat.

 

[Mag_seven]

The only staff that are entitled to sit in first class are those who have first class facilities. In the event of fare paying passengers standing then they must relinquish their seats.

 

[Undiscovered]

The guard may have said go sit in first so, if anything happens en route, they know exactly where that member if staff is.
If first is also next to a cab, it's possible that the travelling staff will be able to determine something is amiss and assistance is required.

 

[AngusH]

There is one other possibility that occurs to me:

the person in uniform may have purchased a first class ticket for the journey in question.

In which case they were fully entitled to sit there.

why? who can say, but it is a valid possibility.

 

[Surreytraveller]

What's wrong with making a telephone call?

 

[AlterEgo]

What's wrong with making a telephone call?

Nothing of course but everyone needs that one thing they get grumpy about.

 

[Iskra]

From my observations, staff may sometimes sit in (nearly empty) first as this creates more seats for standard class passengers if that part of the train is busy.

Additionally, it is possible that the staff member in question was prepared to pay for an upgrade.

 

[RJ]

Without knowing what ticket the passenger held / what agreement was made with on board staff, it's not really a situation that deserves any second thought.

It's not good when people make assumptions - I was once told off for sitting in First Class, told I need to ask before sitting there, then pulled out a public rate First Class rover which just made things awkward.

 

[Watershed]

I was recently traveling on a Southern train with a First Class ticket. It was a 4 carriage class 377/4, with a First class compartment either end. I got on the front end.
In the ten seat compartment was one other person who was wearing a (non Southern) railway uniform. They were on their way to work. I know this from the telephone call they made (which I regard as a more serious offence than traveling First with a Standard ticket )
Anyway, it made me wonder if they would have had a First Class pass, or if it was just considered an unofficial perk of the job.
A second thought is if all First Class seats were taken, would it be reasonable to ask rail staff in uniform to move?

Some TOCs do allow their staff to undertake duty travel (e.g. passing from A to B as part of their diagram) in first class; some staff may also hold a first class pass due to their length of service or grade, or because they have safeguarded facilities. It's also possible that they hold a first class ticket.

However, the vast majority of the time, any staff travelling in first class will likely be doing so on the basis that it is an 'accepted practice' for which they know they won't be pulled up by RPIs or managers. More consciencious members of staff might have obtained the permission of the second member of staff (guard/OBS etc.), but this is less common in my experience - most just assume it will be OK if they're travelling on their own TOC.

 

[thedbdiboy]

Rail staff traveling first class should always give priority to passengers where there are not enough seats. Some staff have permenant first class passes and some a set number of upgrades via boxes on their pass. I can't speak for other TOCs but on the three on my patch it is generally a perk for staff if there is room and the gaurd is happy for you to sit there. It's dependant mostly on passenger loadings, but on a Saturday night train when your passing its nice to have somewhere a bit quieter, and from a gaurd a perspective it's handy knowing where another staff member is if you need a hand.

The only staff that are entitled to sit in first class are those who have first class facilities. In the event of fare paying passengers standing then they must relinquish their seats.

The exception is retired safeguarded staff, who are not required to vacate seats for fare paying passengers (although unless physical infirmity prevents it I think most would try and avoid occupying a First Class seat if at all possible when others are standing)

 

[greyman42]

The exception is retired safeguarded staff, who are not required to vacate seats for fare paying passengers (although unless physical infirmity prevents it I think most would try and avoid occupying a First Class seat if at all possible when others are standing)

There is no reason why they should.

 

[142blue]

If the guard onboard allows them to sit there then surely that's the end of the matter, no?.

 

[bramling]

If the guard onboard allows them to sit there then surely that's the end of the matter, no?.

Possibly more of an issue on DOO services, indeed the OP referred to a Southern service which may well be DOO.

Wasn't there an incident a few years ago when a Southern manager got photographed sprawled out across a table in first class whilst standard was busy? Don't think he was doing anything wrong, but the optics weren't good as it was during one of their periods where the service was dire.

 

[66701GBRF]

I was recently traveling on a Southern train with a First Class ticket. It was a 4 carriage class 377/4, with a First class compartment either end. I got on the front end.
In the ten seat compartment was one other person who was wearing a (non Southern) railway uniform. They were on their way to work. I know this from the telephone call they made (which I regard as a more serious offence than traveling First with a Standard ticket )
Anyway, it made me wonder if they would have had a First Class pass, or if it was just considered an unofficial perk of the job.
A second thought is if all First Class seats were taken, would it be reasonable to ask rail staff in uniform to move?

please explain why there is such a big issue with a phone call.

 

[Taunton]

If you're on ScotRail, the first-class coach is practically a staff messroom.

Long been like that, the Glasgow-Edinburgh service with management staff based in both cities in particular.

 

[godfreycomplex]

Nothing of course but everyone needs that one thing they get grumpy about.

Indeed

 

[Jan Mayen]

please explain why there is such a big issue with a phone call.

I regret that the smily emoticon I thought I put in didn't make it to the post. Indeed, when I tried putting it in just now it didn't work. But when I put a : followed by a ) it then appeared. So my apologies for that, as it made the phone call look like a bigger issue than it was.
I put it in as, in the old pre mobile phone days, when there were six seat compartments on Southern Region 4-VEPS (and others), it was traditionally silent, with the First Class commuters reading The Financial Times or whatever.

My thanks for all the replies.

 

[D6130]

Long been like that, the Glasgow-Edinburgh service with management staff based in both cities in particular.

There's a slight difference though....the management staff commuting from Edinburgh to Glasgow have/had first class passes, whereas traincrew and other grades travelling to/from work or travelling pass do/did not!

 

[Gerald Fiennes]

The more pertinent question is perhaps whether it is worth buying a 1st Class ticket for an SN train. The seats are the same and ticket checks are minimal, so anyone may be drop in to liven up your journey...my own view is that I fell safer in standard class most of the time even when I can use 1st....

 

[Alex365Dash]

The more pertinent question is perhaps whether it is worth buying a 1st Class ticket for an SN train. The seats are the same and ticket checks are minimal, so anyone may be drop in to liven up your journey...my own view is that I fell safer in standard class most of the time even when I can use 1st....

Seats are more comfy if you bag a 171

 

[LAX54]

What's wrong with making a telephone call?

Maybe he is starting a campaign to ban all mobile and tablet use in trains ?

 

[43066]

The only staff that are entitled to sit in first class are those who have first class facilities. In the event of fare paying passengers standing then they must relinquish their seats.

Yes, albeit in practice guard’s discretion comes into it. I don't think I’ve never *not* sat in first when passing with my operator, and it has never been busy enough for it to be an issue. If it was I’d go into a back or intermediate cab.

However, the vast majority of the time, any staff travelling in first class will likely be doing so on the basis that it is an 'accepted practice' for which they know they won't be pulled up by RPIs or managers.

In my experience most ask (which is the correct thing to do). How do you know they haven’t? Thankfully most staff have a decent relationship with their colleagues and don’t go around “pulling up” colleagues over pettiness. There are exceptions of course.

There's a slight difference though....the management staff commuting from Edinburgh to Glasgow have/had first class passes, whereas traincrew and other grades travelling to/from work or travelling pass do/did not!

It makes no difference what grade they are if the TM has allowed then to sit there. All staff (including management) are supposed to give up their seats to fare paying passengers if they’d otherwise be required to stand.

The exception is that, absent declassification, there is no requirement to give up a first class seat to a standard class ticket holder, just because standard is full and standing.

 

[michael74]

I have no 1st class rights and the official line from the company is unless you have the relevant rights you do not travel in 1st (unless you get a seatfrog or on on train upgrade if travelling off duty on a Priv), I personally choose not to automatically go straight to 1st and plonk myself down or even ask the TM, when commuting to work or passing, if the service is rammed I stand. If the TM invites me to 1st and I don't have long left on my journey, I politely decline. If its so rammed and its a 10 car IET I will clear it with the TM to sit in one of the middle cabs (loads of room and a big comfy chair )

For me, its just so much more simple this way, 99.9% of my colleagues are great, but you only need that 0.1% to cause an uncomfortable chat with your manager.