Can you help me resolve a dispute over excessing a ticket

[premier01]

You wanted to excess the RTN portion of a Cardiff to Aber return ticket to Fairwater? (ie, Aber to Cardiff RTN to become Aber to Fairwater RTN )

I can't see any problem with that; it's a straightforward overdistance excess, costing £0.00

Some staff claim that once you reach your final destination it cannot be excessed. While I can't find that documented, it is difficult to argue against but providing you asked before reaching Cardiff I cannot see why they would refuse.

However some staff do not like issuing zero excesses (do a search on this forum for previous topics) and will give any excuse not to do them. Most passengers will be fobbed off easily and will not go to a forum like this one and find out they were overcharged, so most of the time they get away with it. And also they will assume people won't bother about a fare like £1.40.

Sorry you experienced this. It's inexcusable but all too common, and it honestly does not surprise me at all.

This is exactly what I always find when dealing with staff about excess tickets-it's actually quite simple-if u don't know the rules-learn then-if u do but can't be bothered to issue zero excess tickets-and there are reasons why such as time and complexity-then don't! But do not fleece the customer by issuing incorrectly priced tickets-surely as illegal as a customer trying to play the system by not getting a ticket etc

I suggest the OP writes to complain and send the tickets-time consuming but it's the only way they will learn to train their staff.

 

[yorkie]

...surely as illegal as a customer trying to play the system by not getting a ticket etc ...

It certainly should be! Sadly it's not a level playing field. One side can break the rules with almost impunity. The other side faces a criminal record!

 

[premier01]

It certainly should be! Sadly it's not a level playing field. One side can break the rules with almost impunity. The other side faces a criminal record!

I think there would be some strong cases in corporate law but I wish they would just simplify the rules or skill up the staff-also the software and systems should be set up to automatically calculate any requested fare or excess fares-even with the UK's most complex fares structure this should be an option-would save money and time.

 

[sonic2009]

If I'm thinking correctly it may be a guard I encounted before... In april I was travelling back from eastbourne on a return portion ticket ebn-cogan.. Now I checked on board the fgw from london paddington what the excess to llandaff was... It was the same price. He told me to just explain to guard on next train.. I did explain and he said you will have to pay..I said its the same price and you just zero fare excess.. Despite him insisiting I was in the wrong he got btp invloved and I explained to officer I was not jumping the fare. And showed him the array of tickets. I had bought the guard also pointed out that for someone travelling back from eastbourne after a 14 day stay with only a rucksack and laptop bag.. Was obvsiouly doing something wrong. I explained most of my stuff I had took I left at my ex gfs I was going back dwn the same day on a new ticket.. In the end btp did nothing.. And the guard just took my ticket off me..

 

[premier01]

If I'm thinking correctly it may be a guard I encounted before... In april I was travelling back from eastbourne on a return portion ticket ebn-cogan.. Now I checked on board the fgw from london paddington what the excess to llandaff was... It was the same price. He told me to just explain to guard on next train.. I did explain and he said you will have to pay..I said its the same price and you just zero fare excess.. Despite him insisiting I was in the wrong he got btp invloved and I explained to officer I was not jumping the fare. And showed him the array of tickets. I had bought the guard also pointed out that for someone travelling back from eastbourne after a 14 day stay with only a rucksack and laptop bag.. Was obvsiouly doing something wrong. I explained most of my stuff I had took I left at my ex gfs I was going back dwn the same day on a new ticket.. In the end btp did nothing.. And the guard just took my ticket off me..

They should be disciplined for that-what an unpleasant experience for law abiding customers to have to deal with the police when they are reported by incompetent train staff.

 

[Flamingo]

I checked on board the fgw from london paddington what the excess to llandaff was... It was the same price. He told me to just explain to guard on next train.. .

This is the reason I always do a zero-fares excess to prove the passenger had the conversation with me about changing stations (unless Bristol Parkway and Bristol Temple Meads as this is so well known I don't think that even the most bloody-minded of my colleagues would make an issue out of it!).

According to what paperwork is in use (with different FGW depots anyway) we have to give an explanation for why zero-fares were issued, and they are singled out on the end-of-shift Avantex log-off. I've never had management query one, though.

 

[daikilo]

I'm interested to understand where you draw the line around this collective responsibility to convey the passenger.

I think you are proposing that the mainline rail TOCs have the responsibility if the passenger is delayed by another mainline TOC (incl MerseyRail, London Overground, Glasgow suburban electrics), but not if delayed by a local "metro" (such as LU, T&W Metro, Glasgow Subway). Its hard to understand why the line is drawn there.

We're more accustomed to having responsibility assigned to legal identities, ie Companies. For example, if a passenger arriving late for a First Group train had been delayed by a First Group bus, then the responsibility to convey the passenger would be honoured, but if delayed by another company's bus then there would be no continuing responsibility.

Can you elaborate on why the responsibility is confined to the mainline TOCs and is shared between them, but doesn't extend to "metro" rail delays and why it doesn't include the same company's delays when connecting from other modes of transport?

[PS This is not a question about the NCoC. The provision in the CoC defines some responsibility between TOCs but it doesn't relieve them from responsibilities from delays on "Metros" nor, more importantly, from responsibilities they incur when conveying but delaying passengers on other modes they operate.]

Dave and Yorkie:

Love this thread. These are the fundamentals of what current ticketing allows and does not reject.

For me, the question is whether the rail network carriers are franchisees or separate entities. I suspect ticketing is a mix with some fares being network and some entity only. The question is whether an entity fare reverts to network in the event the entity fails to deliver all or part of the journey.

I would like to see a jurisprudence on this as it will determine whether entity fares revert to network if the entity fails to deliver and thus whether we still have a single rail network (network rail suggests we do).

Dave's diversion re First is just that, as I have yet to see any contractual link between the various First operations other than the name.