Cardiff Bus

[tramboy]

Cardiff Bus* currently have an offer (until 16th December) whereby all single journeys that start or finish in Cardiff after 9.30am on Monday to Friday are reduced to £1:

https://www.cardiffbus.com/ten-days-ps1-bus-fares.

However, implementation seems patchy at best. My host had been charged fairly randomly - to the point he wasn't actually sure what the rules were, and of my four journeys, I was charged £1 for three, and £2 for one (inbound). Some cash payers also seem to have lost out by dumping their money into the fare vault before the driver was able to tell them (in the case of two local teenagers, they wouldn't even listen to the driver attempting to persuade them to pay for each other, so they didn't overpay!).


The fare vaults seem to cause other issues too - on one journey was operated by an Omnicity, and you had to bend your hand around the vault to put your card on the contactless reader, then somehow scoop your ticket out of a letterbox-sized gap between the top of the vault and the Covid/assault screen. Not the most customer-friendly of designs!

* It seems as though this is actually valid on other operators as well: https://www.cardiffnewsroom.co.uk/releases/c25/28121.html.

Not knowing very much about Cardiff services as a pure visitor, Easyway service 32A seem to be the only exception?

It's a Council sponsored scheme that has been implemented in the run up to Christmas - Cardiff not wanting to be left out seemingly as bus fares in Newport have been made free at all times until Christmas Eve - see link below:

Free bus journeys in December

www.newport.gov.uk

The additional Covid screens do get in the way on certain types of vehicle - anything of an Omnicity type (including the soon to be retired artics) are quite awkward!

 

[Dai Corner]

Not knowing very much about Cardiff services as a pure visitor, Easyway service 32A seem to be the only exception?

Newport Transport, who run the 30 to their home city jointly with Cardiff Bus, aren't participating.

 

[317 forever]

A few Yutongs have already entered service. Some of these pictures are of such buses in service.
Search: cardiff yutong | Flickr

 

[Bob Price]

Could I ask you Cardiff Bus experts a question? The Cyncoed route once became the 308 and ran from Cyncoed to Penarth. Does anyone know when it started and went back to being the 54?

 

[cnjb8]

Is it true Cardiff have acquired four 2010 OmniDekka’s from Nottingham City Transport?

 

[carlberry]

Is it true Cardiff have acquired four 2010 OmniDekka’s from Nottingham City Transport?

8 apparently, 4 already arrived.

 

[ATW158Xpress]

Will these be used for school services only or used on regular bus routes?

 

[cnjb8]

8 apparently, 4 already arrived.

Thank you

 

[CN04NRJ]

Will these be used for school services only or used on regular bus routes?

For the 17/18 I believe as they're higher capacity than the native Scania DDs.

 

[tramboy]

Cardiff bus' last Darts ran at the weekend - those that were remaining in service have been withdrawn with the entry of the latest batch of Yutong E12s.

The 6 remaining Scania artics will be withdrawn after service on Saturday 29th January - an article on their website confirms. 3 will currently survive - one with Connexions/Harrogate Coach Travel, one with Portsmouth City Coaches, and 604 with a preservation group who are taking it to Lancashire on 27th January.

Farewell to Cardiff’s bendy buses

We look back at Cardiff's bendy bus story

www.cardiffbus.com

Farewell to Cardiff’s bendy buses
1 week ago Mon 10th Jan 2022

Articulated buses, also known as bendy buses, have added a touch of European style to our Capital City, but as we prepare to say farewell to the remaining buses we look back at their time in Cardiff with an article written by our friend, Andrew Wiltshire.

By 2004 increased patronage on the Ely services 17/18 meant that Cardiff Bus needed bigger vehicles, even with a five-minute frequency. Cardiff Bus also wished to revamp the bus link between the City Centre and Cardiff Bay as “baycar”. A Mercedes Citaro articulated bus was borrowed in early 2005 for evaluation and used in service including the routes 17/18. An order was soon placed for a fleet of 19 two-door Scania OmniCity bendy buses that would be built in Poland. They would have seating for 53 and a standing capacity of 80 and featured many extras such as full air-conditioning, “next bus stop” displays, pre-recorded passenger announcements, internal and external CCTV.

Bus stops were modified to accommodate these massive buses and routes 17/18 were moved from the bus station to the north side of Wood Street.

The livery and all publicity material including timetables and bus stop flags were designed by Ray Stenning’s Best Impressions. Four vehicles 601 to 604 were in a blue livery for the baycar service 6 while 605 to 617 were in a red and green-based livery and branded Capital City Red for the Ely routes 17/18. The remaining two buses were numbered 618 and 619 and featured a generic two-tone green livery with cream fronts, for operation on either service as required. The new articulated bendy buses entered service from 28 May 2006.

The bendy-buses rarely strayed from these routes, but could be called upon to help out on X59 Park and Ride duties and for special events. With the ability to carry a large number of people, for a number of years a bendy bus could be seen working a few term-time journeys from Roath to Western Avenue, Llandaff on the Cardiff MET University service, as well as to Colcot Road, Barry on the 96 serving Cardiff and the Vale College.

Commencing in the summer of 2013 the entire fleet of bendy buses were given a mid-life refurbishment, which would include a full upholstery re-trim. The four baycar buses (601 to 604) emerged in a revised blue-based livery, while the remaining 15 buses received standard fleet livery with an orange front. At the start of the pandemic in 2020 four buses were put into store and two of them were eventually sold. The baycar service 6 changed over to smaller vehicles and 604 was painted into standard fleet livery. The remaining 15 bendy buses continued to work Ely routes 17 and 18.

Operation of these distinctive vehicles will finally come to an end, with the last day of operation being the 29th January 2022. In the short-term services 17 and 18 will be operated using double deck buses that can carry up to 99 customers and around 3 or 4 pushchairs.

 

[CN04NRJ]

Cardiff bus' last Darts ran at the weekend - those that were remaining in service have been withdrawn with the entry of the latest batch of Yutong E12s.

The 6 remaining Scania artics will be withdrawn after service on Saturday 29th January - an article on their website confirms. 3 will currently survive - one with Connexions/Harrogate Coach Travel, one with Portsmouth City Coaches, and 604 with a preservation group who are taking it to Lancashire on 27th January.

Although they weren't always the most reliable, they provided excellent service and undoubtedly grew (or at the very least stopped a decline other routes have seen) the 17/18 into a successful service.

It's a shame they're being replaced with lower capacity vehicles, tri axle double deckers could easily have fit around the route as is.

 

[83G/84D]

I went up last week to see the last Darts and artics. Looks like I will require a return visit to see the latest batch of Yutongs.
Any chance someone can post registration and fleet number details of the ex Nottingham Omnidekkas please?

 

[philthetube]

The last line of the Cardiff bus quote, made me smile, as I initially misread it, picturing the service being operated by deckers and pushchairs.


Operation of these distinctive vehicles will finally come to an end, with the last day of operation being the 29th January 2022. In the short-term services 17 and 18 will be operated using double deck buses that can carry up to 99 customers and around 3 or 4 pushchairs.

 

[EnviroExplorer]

I went up last week to see the last Darts and artics. Looks like I will require a return visit to see the latest batch of Yutongs.
Any chance someone can post registration and fleet number details of the ex Nottingham Omnidekkas please?

I’m sure I recall reading they’ve 8 Omnidekkas coming, but 4 have arrived so far. They are former Nottingham 980 (YT10UWJ), 981 (YT10UWK), 982 (YT10UWL) and 983 (YT10UWM). 981 has become 352 in the Cardiff fleet, so we can assume these will be 351-354.

Link below from Flickr of the former 981 in the Cardiff depot

Nottingham orange comes to Cardiff

Cardiff Bus are acquiring a batch of high capacity Scania N270UD / East Lancs Omnidekka's from Nottingham as replacements for the soon to be withdrawn Scania Artic's. Ex. Nottingham 981 (YT10 UWK) will be 352 in the Cardiff fleet and is waiting its turn for a visit to the paint shop.

www.flickr.com

 

[83G/84D]

Thanks.

 

[mrmartin]

Coming from London, finding two main problems with the buses:

1) Real time info is extremely hit and miss. At the bus stop it rarely shows, and on citymapper lots of the buses have no live tracking info. This, coupled with buses often being wildly off timetable, is really annoying. Is there any reason why it is so unreliable?

2) Slow payments. I won't get into a debate whether or not they should stop taking cash, but even buying a single on a card is slow compared to just tapping it on London buses. I noticed there is some sort of tapping system but I can't really understand it. I use the mobile app which works well and is quick. But the other methods need to be speeded up. On a busy stop you can lose so much time waiting for people to pay.

Also, have frequencies been reduced a lot since covid (like London?) I get the impression some of the routes have really been hacked (eg city circle), which has its own branding of sorts but is at most a bus an hour.

 

[cdfclipper]

1) Real time info is extremely hit and miss. At the bus stop it rarely shows, and on citymapper lots of the buses have no live tracking info. This, coupled with buses often being wildly off timetable, is really annoying. Is there any reason why it is so unreliable?

I believe the bus stop screens, which you'd think are live times, actually don't display real time information, whether it counts down to departure or not. From experience, I've found the tracking is pretty reliable through their app, which actually shows live departures.

2) Slow payments. I won't get into a debate whether or not they should stop taking cash, but even buying a single on a card is slow compared to just tapping it on London buses. I noticed there is some sort of tapping system but I can't really understand it.

Fares are often slow to buy from the driver usually because the driver has to find the fare on the ticketer. Often it can be a bit slow I find as the passenger may put their card on the reader before the driver's found the ticket, the card is denied then process has to restart. Somewhat recently, they introduced tap on tap off for contactless, which may be the tapping system you refer to.

Also, have frequencies been reduced a lot since covid (like London?) I get the impression some of the routes have really been hacked (eg city circle), which has its own branding of sorts but is at most a bus an hour.

It is a mix really of services not returning to pre-pandemic levels and I believe some had their frequency decreased to try and make services more reliable with increasing congestion at peak times. In fact, earlier this month the main Park & Ride service was withdrawn. City Circle was cut from half hourly in each direction to the current hourly each direction at some point over the last year, though despite it having it's own name/brand, if you will, it's never really been advertised too much.

 

[mrmartin]

I believe the bus stop screens, which you'd think are live times, actually don't display real time information, whether it counts down to departure or not. From experience, I've found the tracking is pretty reliable through their app, which actually shows live departures.

Ok that is interesting, as they didn't actually tally with what Citymapper said even when they count down. Good shout on the official app, its much more reliable. Right now citymapper is showing no live departures on some stops which the official app is.

Fares are often slow to buy from the driver usually because the driver has to find the fare on the ticketer. Often it can be a bit slow I find as the passenger may put their card on the reader before the driver's found the ticket, the card is denied then process has to restart. Somewhat recently, they introduced tap on tap off for contactless, which may be the tapping system you refer to.

Yes exactly, that's the problem. It would be a better user experience if the reader defaulted to a single so people could just tap it, otherwise they need to ask the driver to change it. However this tap on tap off complicates things as maybe that should be the default. Either way there is definite room for improvement. Also the receipt printing seems excessive in this day and age for a single bus ticket, would save a few seconds not having ones for singles.

It is a mix really of services not returning to pre-pandemic levels and I believe some had their frequency decreased to try and make services more reliable with increasing congestion at peak times. In fact, earlier this month the main Park & Ride service was withdrawn. City Circle was cut from half hourly in each direction to the current hourly each direction at some point over the last year, though despite it having it's own name/brand, if you will, it's never really been advertised too much.

Interesting. City circle also seems to have a 2 hour gap over lunchtime. Half hourly is doable, but this less than hourly service is really quite poor for going through such built up areas.

 

[tramboy]

Ok that is interesting, as they didn't actually tally with what Citymapper said even when they count down. Good shout on the official app, its much more reliable. Right now citymapper is showing no live departures on some stops which the official app is.

The "on street" realtime system in Cardiff is out of the ark - and hasn't been modernised since it was installed. Whilst if you cross the border into the Vale of Glamorgan you'll find nifty new screens installed at shelters (although not real time), the Cardiff system is a mixture of timetable & realtime where the radio control system (yes, that old!) fitted to the shelter still works. There are some new screens on trial at stops on the Kingsway as the Council have started looking to bring it up to date.

Yes exactly, that's the problem. It would be a better user experience if the reader defaulted to a single so people could just tap it, otherwise they need to ask the driver to change it. However this tap on tap off complicates things as maybe that should be the default. Either way there is definite room for improvement. Also the receipt printing seems excessive in this day and age for a single bus ticket, would save a few seconds not having ones for singles.

Tap On/Off went live just before Christmas, so both customers and drivers are getting used to it in my experience. Some people are comfortable using it, others still want that piece of paper which means the ticket has to be selected on the machine. With time - like when the app was launched, I'm fairly sure it'll speed things up.

Interesting. City circle also seems to have a 2 hour gap over lunchtime. Half hourly is doable, but this less than hourly service is really quite poor for going through such built up areas.

Each direction (1/2) is hourly throughout the day, but starts to drop back at lunchtime for reliability purposes. Whilst it serves built up areas, it's not the main service doing that (e.g. for Tremorfa the main service is the 11), rather it's there for a few connections to prevent going into and out of the city centre.

 

[mrmartin]

Actually the official app is also extremely unreliable. Only one bus of 6 on the stop I was at was showing live tracking. I'm not really fussed about the bus stops themselves, its more important to have the data feeds working so all the transport apps can show them and plan with them.

Tap On/Off went live just before Christmas, so both customers and drivers are getting used to it in my experience. Some people are comfortable using it, others still want that piece of paper which means the ticket has to be selected on the machine. With time - like when the app was launched, I'm fairly sure it'll speed things up.

Looking into this more this seems pretty pointless? If you travel often, a weekly or longer ticket is better value (which isn't offered on it).

If you travel occassionally the 10 mobile app tickets are better value.

The only improvement is the daily capping if you didn't know you were going to need a day ticket at the start of the day.

It would be better if it capped every 10 tickets at £16 so it was the same value as the mobile app?

And you have the drawback of forgetting to touch out/it not working and you getting charged extra, which the other payment methods don't have.

 

[cdfclipper]

Actually the official app is also extremely unreliable. Only one bus of 6 on the stop I was at was showing live tracking. I'm not really fussed about the bus stops themselves, its more important to have the data feeds working so all the transport apps can show them and plan with them.

Seems to me that typically if the bus does not have a live countdown on the app that means that the bus is not running at all. In my experience I've only had the odd time where buses have failed to track so I find that a bit surprising that only one appeared to work.

Looking into this more this seems pretty pointless?

I've found that the tap on tap off system is not really that beneficial, in it's early stages it's only really caused confusion really. I feel like that this only came about as a byproduct of plans Transport for Wales have that involve ticketing across operators, as the same tap on tap off readers have appeared with different operators around South Wales also a while back.

 

[tramboy]

Looking into this more this seems pretty pointless? If you travel often, a weekly or longer ticket is better value (which isn't offered on it).

If you travel occassionally the 10 mobile app tickets are better value.

The only improvement is the daily capping if you didn't know you were going to need a day ticket at the start of the day.

It would be better if it capped every 10 tickets at £16 so it was the same value as the mobile app?

And you have the drawback of forgetting to touch out/it not working and you getting charged extra, which the other payment methods don't have.

When it was launched, the explanation was that it would start with just day capping. I'm expecting longer duration caps to roll out this year, now that some of the initial system kinks have probably been worked out. That way, it'll provide the additional benefits that this sort of thing has compared to the mobile app, at least meaning that you don't have to register and can just use and choose the bus.

No doubt in the future, TfW will get involved and there will be something across operators.

 

[padbus]

Now that the Cardiff Bus thread has been re-activated, I wonder if anyone can help solve the enclosed puzzle picture. It was sent to me last month by my daughter with the comment, “Saw this bus on my lunch time walk today, non standard Cardiff colours”. I have worked out that the bus is an Irizar i3 and that it is in the livery of Midland Classic. The photo does not show the registration but the location is under the railway bridge over Leckwith Road near Canton train depot and Ninian Park station. It would seem that some of the Midland Classic fleet has been disposed of since it was taken over by Rotala but what this one doing in Cardiff?

 

[Dai Corner]

Now that the Cardiff Bus thread has been re-activated, I wonder if anyone can help solve the enclosed puzzle picture. It was sent to me last month by my daughter with the comment, “Saw this bus on my lunch time walk today, non standard Cardiff colours”. I have worked out that the bus is an Irizar i3 and that it is in the livery of Midland Classic. The photo does not show the registration but the location is under the railway bridge over Leckwith Road near Canton train depot and Ninian Park station. It would seem that some of the Midland Classic fleet has been disposed of since it was taken over by Rotala but what this one doing in Cardiff?

Rail replacement?

 

[hst43102]

Now that the Cardiff Bus thread has been re-activated, I wonder if anyone can help solve the enclosed puzzle picture. It was sent to me last month by my daughter with the comment, “Saw this bus on my lunch time walk today, non standard Cardiff colours”. I have worked out that the bus is an Irizar i3 and that it is in the livery of Midland Classic. The photo does not show the registration but the location is under the railway bridge over Leckwith Road near Canton train depot and Ninian Park station. It would seem that some of the Midland Classic fleet has been disposed of since it was taken over by Rotala but what this one doing in Cardiff?

These Irizars are owned (I believe!) by Reading Buses, they were leased to Midland Classic but have been returned and now leased to Cardiff Bus. There are three now with Cardiff Bus 781-783, YN17ONJ/K/L.

 

[padbus]

These Irizars are owned (I believe!) by Reading Buses, they were leased to Midland Classic but have been returned and now leased to Cardiff Bus. There are three now with Cardiff Bus 781-783, YN17ONJ/K/L.

Thank you for your prompt reply.

 

[cdfclipper]

These Irizars are owned (I believe!) by Reading Buses, they were leased to Midland Classic but have been returned and now leased to Cardiff Bus. There are three now with Cardiff Bus 781-783, YN17ONJ/K/L.

They are not leased - Cardiff Bus have purchased these according to a driver who has spoken to the service delivery director, which is surprising - though makes sense with them being Euro VI standard and Scanias.

 

[GusB]

Thread reopened for further discussion.

 

[Dai Corner]

This statement was put out by Cardiff Bus recently.

September Service Changes

We will be making some timetable and route changes from Sunday 3 September

www.cardiffbus.com

September Service Changes
5 days ago Mon 7th Aug 2023

For the last few months all bus operators across Wales have been working with Welsh Government, Regional Authorities and Local Authorities to work through the funding challenges that are coming to the fore as Pandemic support is being withdrawn. There have been many news stories reflecting these discussions, and the funding challenges ahead for buses; the mode of transport that carries almost 80% of all public transport journeys in Wales.

These funding challenges mean the current levels of support being made to all bus operators cannot be maintained. All bus operators have been working collaboratively with all levels of government to amend networks to work within the fixed funding allocation that has been made available.

In our case, which is not the case for all operators, during pre-pandemic times more than 90% of our revenue came from customers making journeys with us. However, like all bus operators in Wales, and across the UK, when the pandemic struck we had to quickly change service levels to reflect government directions. We received new subsidies to maintain the existing network and the capacity as we moved out of those levels of restrictions. It is this support that is now coming to an end.

At present we are seeing just over 80% of pre-pandemic customers returning to our services. This is now the new base level that we must work from as we move back to operating with reducing support. These are hard decisions, but we must make changes to maintain a sustainable network in Cardiff and eastern Vale of Glamorgan.

The changes are set out below. For new timetables we have had to factor in additional journey time as we try and make sure these are robust to navigate the worsened levels of traffic congestion we face. We also need to fully consider the changes that have been made to road layouts, loss of highway and junction capacity for bus movements, as well as preparation for new speed limits that affect journey times.

It goes on to list many changes, including about seven routes which are being withdrawn pending a decision on the Council tendering them, so they may have new operators.

 

[daodao]

Cardiff Bus have announced major service reductions from 3rd September 2023, with reductions in service frequencies, particularly on Saturday daytimes (e.g. route 30 Cardiff-Newport becomes approximately hourly) and evenings, and withdrawal of some routes, particularly inter-suburban ones. The introduction of the all-Wales 20 mph urban speed limit will also affect some journey times. The details are available at:

September Service Changes

We will be making some timetable and route changes from Sunday 3 September

www.cardiffbus.com

September Service Changes​

5 days ago Mon 7th Aug 2023

For the last few months all bus operators across Wales have been working with Welsh Government, Regional Authorities and Local Authorities to work through the funding challenges that are coming to the fore as Pandemic support is being withdrawn. There have been many news stories reflecting these discussions, and the funding challenges ahead for buses; the mode of transport that carries almost 80% of all public transport journeys in Wales.
These funding challenges mean the current levels of support being made to all bus operators cannot be maintained. All bus operators have been working collaboratively with all levels of government to amend networks to work within the fixed funding allocation that has been made available.
In our case, which is not the case for all operators, during pre-pandemic times more than 90% of our revenue came from customers making journeys with us. However, like all bus operators in Wales, and across the UK, when the pandemic struck we had to quickly change service levels to reflect government directions. We received new subsidies to maintain the existing network and the capacity as we moved out of those levels of restrictions. It is this support that is now coming to an end.
At present we are seeing just over 80% of pre-pandemic customers returning to our services. This is now the new base level that we must work from as we move back to operating with reducing support. These are hard decisions, but we must make changes to maintain a sustainable network in Cardiff and eastern Vale of Glamorgan.
The changes are set out below. For new timetables we have had to factor in additional journey time as we try and make sure these are robust to navigate the worsened levels of traffic congestion we face. We also need to fully consider the changes that have been made to road layouts, loss of highway and junction capacity for bus movements, as well as preparation for new speed limits that affect journey times.

Services will also be withdrawn from some major radial routes. For example, Whitchurch Road, formerly a tram (and later trolleybus) route, will no longer have any bus services, following withdrawal of route 8 north of the city centre and the previous diversion of route 35 to run via North Road.