Cardiff Central redevelopment plans

[tigermonstera]

mods note - split from this thread

Hiya, new to the forum here. I haven't seen this discussed here yet but TfW have published images of the new Cardiff Central designs to their website: https://news.tfw.wales/resources/f/stations

 

[MikePJ]

Hiya, new to the forum here. I haven't seen this discussed here yet but TfW have published images of the new Cardiff Central designs to their website: https://news.tfw.wales/resources/f/stations

Welcome! We were discussing a few weeks ago what was happening and there was no news, so great to see some proposals at last.

 

[CapitalStar378]

Hiya, new to the forum here. I haven't seen this discussed here yet but TfW have published images of the new Cardiff Central designs to their website: https://news.tfw.wales/resources/f/stations

Thanks, well spotted.

The southern entrance is nothing like I was expecting, but it's an interesting design. Looks like a minor refurbishment of the rest of the station, bar Platform 0. No sign of an over track bridge or any kind of re-thinking of the platform layout from the CGIs.

It would have been great to see some sort of new circulation space under the platforms, as at London Bridge, on a smaller scale. Guessing no escalators to the platforms either.

Of course, there may be bits not shown but seems unlikely any shiny new additions wouldn't be featured.


TfW have posted a podcast video on You Tube with a James Price interview. Not very challenging as it's in house, but he does push 398s back to late this year/early next year. Guess no Ponty - Cardiff Bay service on them this year then.

I'm sure we'd all like to see him being interviewed by some Railforums members!

You Tube video

 

[Smwrff]

This is completely underwhelming....

 

[AdamWW]

This is completely underwhelming....

Does it need to whelm?

 

[CardiffKid]

Have TfW really just put up images with no plans/text, context or news story etc?

Should I/we read much into that the tram stop at the rear doesn’t in these images show any kind of roof/shelter for passengers unlike the renderings on the ‘Crossrail Phase 1’ images?

 

[mrmartin]

I thought the whole idea of the new carpark was the existing carpark was going to be used for flats etc? Has that been knocked on the head now with the tram?

 

[Smwrff]

I thought the whole idea of the new carpark was the existing carpark was going to be used for flats etc? Has that been knocked on the head now with the tram?

The new multi-storey car park is indeed to allow for redevelopment of the surface car park and adjoining land. But that plan has always included a tram stop and improved station access. It will also include offices and/or residential buildings but these have not been planned yet. Network Rail is currently working on a Masterplan for the area which will eventually fill in all of the gaps.

Does it need to whelm?

Not neccesarily but I would expect it to meet its stated objectives of safely increasing passenger capacity...which does not appear to be the case.

 

[Philip Roberts]

Hiya, new to the forum here. I haven't seen this discussed here yet but TfW have published images of the new Cardiff Central designs to their website: https://news.tfw.wales/resources/f/stations

Great spot! I think planning permission is imminent so hopefully we'll hear more soon

 

[WelshBluebird]

Looks like the images are in use on this page now. Not sure exactly when it went live - https://tfw.wales/projects/cardiff-central-enhancements

Does it need to whelm?

I mean maybe not, but considering the previous proposals this is a huge downgrade.

Essentially no change to the current passenger circulation areas apart from Platform 0 by the looks of it (compared to above platform areas like Reading station which were included in some of the initial proposals ages ago).

The link I posted above mentions a larger concourse and improving passenger flow, but the image at least don't show much of that at all. Infact the images of the concourse used looks essentially identical to what it looks like today! Maybe some of the South entrance imagary implies they are going to try to shift some of the footfall there front the front of the station? But it looks like we'd still be limited to the two existing subways which is the main issue I'd say with the station today!

Also very disapointed that it confirms the tram stop plan is to have it pretty seperate from the rear of the station. What an opportunity they have to build a tram stop that is essentially integrated at the South side (but just on a different level) and they aren't taking it.

 

[Meerkat]

Can’t believe the link to the bay will involve leaving the station and tramping across a windswept plaza to stand in the rain?!

 

[anthony263]

Can’t believe the link to the bay will involve leaving the station and tramping across a windswept plaza to stand in the rain?!

They should have built a viaduct from central over to the bay line above the roads could have integrated it better to central stn

 

[Zoomer]

I have absolutely no experience in infrastructure projects but I can only assume financial reality is what's preventing the planners from proposing some of the ideas mentioned by people here, rather than any lack of will or imagination?

 

[MikePJ]

They should have built a viaduct from central over to the bay line above the roads could have integrated it better to central stn

I think the artists' impression is probably ignoring the tram stop buildings as they're out-of-scope for the current project (the tram stop will be built as part of Crossrail, but the main station upgrade is funded differently), so they're showing that the south entrance will allow access to the trams, but I would 100% expect a covered shelter to be provided to the tramstops, and likely a covered walkway from the main station too, but they're just not on the current renderings as they form part of a different project.

 

[AdamWW]

I think the artists' impression is probably ignoring the tram stop buildings as they're out-of-scope for the current project (the tram stop will be built as part of Crossrail, but the main station upgrade is funded differently), so they're showing that the south entrance will allow access to the trams, but I would 100% expect a covered shelter to be provided to the tramstops, and likely a covered walkway from the main station too, but they're just not on the current renderings as they form part of a different project.

Then again I'd have expected a canopy when they brought platform 5 into use at Queen Street (2nd busiest station in Wales?) and all we got was a windswept open platform with a few bus shelters. (Albeit heated, I think, and with doors though they don't seem to shut any more).

 

[yorkie]

I have absolutely no experience in infrastructure projects but I can only assume financial reality is what's preventing the planners from proposing some of the ideas mentioned by people here, rather than any lack of will or imagination?

Just to be clear (not aimed at you!) for anyone who is unsure, any suggestions, ideas or any other forum of speculation should not be posted in this thread, but instead in Speculative Discussion please

 

[AdamWW]

Some changes planned to service patterns in response to the abysmal performance on the Coryton line since the changes in June last year.

https://news.tfw.wales/blog/coryton-line-services

The key part is probably this:

In the short term we will be introducing a new plan from 24 March that will see these services run fast between Caerphilly and Cardiff Queen Street. This will create more recovery time in the schedules and creates a fast service into Cardiff for Caerphilly customers. While we will be taking out stops at Lisvane, Llanishen and Heath High Level as these are connected to the Coryton line, these stations still have four trains per hour in each direction. This will be on a trial basis

I haven't quoted the whole page as I'm not sure that's allowed from a copyright point of view.

It's good to see them ackowledge the way the service has collapsed on the Coryton line - even better to see them trying to do something about it.

This is presumably something they've been thinking of for a while but it's interesting timing that this has appeared just after the "naming and shaming" of stations with the worst performing services (where stations on the Coryton Line featured heavily in the top 10 worst stations, and right at the top for Wales).

 

[AdamWW]

A quick picture at Cardiff Bay this evening - there are four of these cantilevers now installed.

I see a whole load of new line closures have appeared on the Metro disruption page: https://tfw.wales/projects/metro/south-wales-metro/service-changes

A few "highlights":

• There's going to be a lot of disruption on the Rhymney line: it's going to be replaced with buses for most of April and May (with one or two strategic reopenings for "events" - presumably rugby matches and the like)
• The Bay line is shut next week, the weekend of the 5th/6th April and also the week of the 14th April
• Coryton is shut on Saturday April 5th (possibly this might be their next attempt to make the wires live, especially as it coincides with a shutdown of the Rhymney and Penarth lines)
• The line via Llandaf is also closed 5th and 6th April.
• There's a weeklong shutdown of the whole Vale of Glamorgan line (including Penarth) from 29th March.

I think they could possibly have made things a bit clearer but it looks as if mostly the Rhymney line is closed only north of Caerphilly.

 

[positron]

Hiya, new to the forum here. I haven't seen this discussed here yet but TfW have published images of the new Cardiff Central designs to their website: https://news.tfw.wales/resources/f/stations

Well that's underwhelming... They've done a new lick of a paint and maybe turned the brightness up a bit (both of which we know won't actually happen). No platform 0 expansion by the looks of it. No new passenger walkways between platforms? The concourse looks largely identical.

Either these renders are wildly unhelpful or they're really not planning much.

Does the south side even need a new entrance?

 

[anthony263]

Well that's underwhelming... They've done a new lick of a paint and maybe turned the brightness up a bit (both of which we know won't actually happen). No platform 0 expansion by the looks of it. No new passenger walkways between platforms? The concourse looks largely identical.

Either these renders are wildly unhelpful or they're really not planning much.

Does the south side even need a new entrance?

I think k they south side will get busier with the metro stop outside plus they probably trying to get more people to use it to ease congestion on the north side.

 

[D6130]

The concourse looks largely identical.

Isn't the concourse listed?....in which case there's not a lot they can do with it.

 

[sefyllian]

Sure but then why do they mention an enlarged concourse unless they do just mean south side. But to me the issue isn't the concourse it's the tunnels which they're not doing anything to (probably listed) and they're not building an above platform walk way. So I don't understand how this helps the station capacity. Platform 0 still being separated is also annoying as it just adds to the friction of changing (you even get charged extra via PAYG)

I think they must be planning expansion of platform 0. The render of the north entrance shows a substantial new building on the site of the M&S, including an extra storey for passenger facilities at platform level and presumably extending west across the small carpark on that side. I doubt they would go to all that effort just for a few Ebbw Vale trains. Which suggests the London trains will move to platform 0, somehow.

If you look closely at the render of the main hall, there’s a much larger entrance to platform 0, separated from the rest of the hall by glass screens – so behind the same gateline as the other platforms. That appears to lead to a new subway (but could just join up with the current one I guess).

 

[anthony263]

I think they must be planning expansion of platform 0. The render of the north entrance shows a substantial new building on the site of the M&S, including an extra storey for passenger facilities at platform level and presumably extending west across the small carpark on that side. I doubt they would go to all that effort just for a few Ebbw Vale trains. Which suggests the London trains will move to platform 0, somehow.

If you look closely at the render of the main hall, there’s a much larger entrance to platform 0, separated from the rest of the hall by glass screens – so behind the same gateline as the other platforms. That appears to lead to a new subway (but could just join up with the current one I guess).

Could be then platform 0 could be extended over to the west over the river

 

[CapitalStar378]

I think they must be planning expansion of platform 0. The render of the north entrance shows a substantial new building on the site of the M&S, including an extra storey for passenger facilities at platform level and presumably extending west across the small carpark on that side. I doubt they would go to all that effort just for a few Ebbw Vale trains. Which suggests the London trains will move to platform 0, somehow.

If you look closely at the render of the main hall, there’s a much larger entrance to platform 0, separated from the rest of the hall by glass screens – so behind the same gateline as the other platforms. That appears to lead to a new subway (but could just join up with the current one I guess).

Let's hope they have a more ambitious timetable than they have for the Cardiff Bay line or we'll all be checking out the new look station with our zimmer frames.

 

[Tomos y Tanc]

Isn't the concourse listed?....in which case there's not a lot they can do with it.

Virtually the whole station is listed, not just the concourse. The only bit that's not is the current southern entrance.

 

[Topological]

Virtually the whole station is listed, not just the concourse. The only bit that's not is the current southern entrance.

The Southern entrance is the only one where you can drive to drop people off. The new renders suggest a pedestrianised area in the same style as the main entrance.

IF I want someone to drop me off for the 04:30 to Manchester then where would that happen under the new plan?

Everything I have seen so far looks like a TfW plan rather than something a normal planner would come up with.

(They may be creating an underground car area, but that seems a very expensive way to make a square on the South side.

 

[CapitalStar378]

The Southern entrance is the only one where you can drive to drop people off. The new renders suggest a pedestrianised area in the same style as the main entrance.

IF I want someone to drop me off for the 04:30 to Manchester then where would that happen under the new plan?

Everything I have seen so far looks like a TfW plan rather than something a normal planner would come up with.

(They may be creating an underground car area, but that seems a very expensive way to make a square on the South side.

I think the southern entrance CGI has used plenty of artistic license, the scale of the pedestrianised area between the station and the tram looks exaggerated to me.

 

[tigermonstera]

The Southern entrance is the only one where you can drive to drop people off. The new renders suggest a pedestrianised area in the same style as the main entrance.

IF I want someone to drop me off for the 04:30 to Manchester then where would that happen under the new plan?

Everything I have seen so far looks like a TfW plan rather than something a normal planner would come up with.

(They may be creating an underground car area, but that seems a very expensive way to make a square on the South side.

A drop off area appears to have been included as part of the new MSCP.

 

[Topological]

A drop off area appears to have been included as part of the new MSCP.

I will have to have a look next time I am in Cardiff.

The problem here is that the current South arrangement is very good, with the V shape allowing pedestrians to go both along the rail line and out towards the other roads.

I guess the development south of the station is really going to change the area so there will be more footfall. Currently, the natural direction is out of the main entrance.

 

[Dai Corner]

This discussion should really be in the Infrastructure and Stations part of the forum, but am I alone in being pleased that Cardiff Central is being preserved?

Just look at the cheap and cheerful new structure at nearby Newport.