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Cardiff Central redevelopment plans

Rhydgaled

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You're not alone. I've been worried about those architects' drawings that proposed widespread destruction of the listed building for years and I'm glad the worst of it seems to have been dropped. Still some vandalism in these latest plans though with the end walls of some of the platform buildings proposed to be knocked down and replaced by modern glass. Yuck.
Creating adequate waiting facilities on the platforms is pretty important for the usability of the station.
I agree that waiting facilities are important, but I wouldn't say they need to be on the platforms. For example, I don't remember there being any buildings on platforms 2 to 4 at Swansea High Street station, just the canopy. Back to Cardiff, and I'm rather disappointed that the new platform 0 building and new south entrance don't seem to contain much in the way of passenger facilities. I think I would have concentrated waiting room and toilet facilties for the whole station in the new-build sections, reducing pressure on the platform facilities. Even so, by the sound of the Heritage Statement document included with the listed building consent application, there is very little of the GWR interiors left in the platform buildings, so I've nothing against most of the proposed internal remodelling to provide larger waiting rooms. They could have done that without impacting the GWR exteriors of the platform buildings, but chose to knock down GWR walls and replace with glass.

Actually, they may have made the suituation worse. The renders show passenger information displays in the western subway - surely that will cause people to stand around looking at them adding to congestion!
As opposed to the existing screens?
It's some time since I've been to Cardiff, but I don't remember there being electronic displays in the subways, and they're not there on TfW's 3D station tour either. For the avoidance of doubt, these are the displays I'm talking about:
WEST_SUBWAY-comment.jpg

At least one option would have destroyed the historically valuable subway tiles
Destroyed? Or removed for preservation elsewhere?
Where could they have moved them to? Those tiles would be very hard to find a suitable new home for. Not many places will have a long enough space with platforms grouped 1&2, 3 to 5 and 6&7.
 
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AdamWW

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It's some time since I've been to Cardiff, but I don't remember there being electronic displays in the subways, and they're not there on TfW's 3D station tour either. For the avoidance of doubt, these are the displays I'm talking about:

Unless I am imagining things, there are now screens in the subway near to each set of stairs giving departures for the relevant platforms. But I think they are relatively recent - they are the new full colour style that was recently introduced on the main concourse and I don't recall anything in the subway before.
 
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Unless I am imagining things, there are now screens in the subway near to each set of stairs giving departures for the relevant platforms. But I think they are relatively recent - they are the new full colour style that was recently introduced on the main concourse and I don't recall anything in the subway before.
I'm pretty sure there are as well. They're actually quite useful
 

Rhydgaled

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I did say it had been some time since I was last there. Having thought about it a bit more, it was probably about 2 years ago. I went out to try to get a ride on the 769s before they were withdrawn and sample the 231s (don't think the 756s had entered service yet) and I don't think I've been to Cardiff since.
 

WAB

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I agree that waiting facilities are important, but I wouldn't say they need to be on the platforms. For example, I don't remember there being any buildings on platforms 2 to 4 at Swansea High Street station, just the canopy. Back to Cardiff, and I'm rather disappointed that the new platform 0 building and new south entrance don't seem to contain much in the way of passenger facilities. I think I would have concentrated waiting room and toilet facilties for the whole station in the new-build sections, reducing pressure on the platform facilities. Even so, by the sound of the Heritage Statement document included with the listed building consent application, there is very little of the GWR interiors left in the platform buildings, so I've nothing against most of the proposed internal remodelling to provide larger waiting rooms. They could have done that without impacting the GWR exteriors of the platform buildings, but chose to knock down GWR walls and replace with glass.
People want to be near where their trains will arrive, not a multiple-minute walk across a concourse, through ticket barriers, through a narrow subway, up the stairs then a fair distance along a platform. This is particularly the case at stations with a lot of passengers changing trains and a lot of through trains with limited dwell time.

I also think you're overstating the value of the end walls of the platform buildings. Equipment cases, decaying phone box remains, and battered doors don't outweigh more welcoming customer facilities IMO.
 

Rhydgaled

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People want to be near where their trains will arrive, not a multiple-minute walk across a concourse, through ticket barriers, through a narrow subway, up the stairs then a fair distance along a platform. This is particularly the case at stations with a lot of passengers changing trains and a lot of through trains with limited dwell time.
If you're changing trains and have got a long wait, chances are you won't know what platform your next train will use anyway. A central large waiting room (inside the ticket barriers - I agree you don't want to make people pass through them any more than necessary - Birmingham New Street would be so much better if there wasn't the hastle of barriers if you go up the wrong set of stairs from the platform), with ample toilet facilities adjacent, would be useful in such cases. Then, a few minutes before your train is due, you head up to the platform (hopefully there won't be any last-minute platform alterations from one group of patforms to another, but in that case you wouldn't be any better off if you had waited on the platform anyway). By only having one or two trainloads of passengers needing to wait on the same platform together, and probably not for very long, the platform waiting rooms don't need to be massive (but would benefit from interior alternations to make them as large as possible without damaging GWR walls)*.

Last time I used them, the toilets on the platforms at Cardiff Central were awful; far too cramped and fairly poor quality. Is there really enough room on the platforms to provide decent toilet facilities? I'm not convinced, so am disapointed there aren't large numbers of new toilets proposed in the new buildings proposed behind platforms 0 and 8. As with waiting rooms, these want to be inside the barriers (I would rather not have barriers at all and ensure full check tickets on-board the trains instead, but accept that probably isn't going to be practical on Metro services and the Metro is too closely integrated with mainline services in Cardiff to make seperate Metro platforms (with barriers) possible) and as close to the entrance to the subways as possible. Given the distance of platform 0 from the rest of the station, I think two lots of toilets plus large waiting rooms are needed; one at concourse level in what TfW appear to be calling the 'West Wing' or 'Fish Jetty' (currently M&S I think, though I've never been in there) and the other (again at concourse level) in the new building behind platform 8.

* note that there doesn't appear to be any waiting rooms on platform 8 in the new plans

I also think you're overstating the value of the end walls of the platform buildings. Equipment cases, decaying phone box remains, and battered doors don't outweigh more welcoming customer facilities IMO.
I didn't say anything about phone boxes and equipment cases. Most of them are presumably 1990s (or more-recent) additions and if those are non-functional and can be (re)moved then go ahead and do that - but I assume they are functional or they wouldn't be there. The end walls of the platform buildings themselves are perhaps, on their own, not of any great significance. However, what whoever drew up these plans appears to have overlooked is the reason that much of Cardiff Central is listed; completeness. As a whole, the station is worth more than the sum of it's parts - there's a historic character to it. It's not quite Birmingham Moor Street, but it's good. Put a modern glass wall in there as that render does and the spell is broken; from the angles you can see the glass wall, that historic character would be gone. It just feels wrong.

As I said, I've nothing against re-arranging the relatively recent interiors - for example this image from the 3D tour:
3D-Tour1.jpg

The phone box presumably works (since there is wayfinding signage highlighting it) but it's not in keeping with the station so if it doesn't work get rid of it. As for the rest, you could move the ladies' toilet somewhere else, replace the three panes of frosted glass (one in the toilet door and two above it) with clear glass and put a large waiting room inside the door and I would have no complaints. I don't know whether the style of door is original, but if not you might be able to tweak the design of it to make the window a bit bigger while still being in-keeping.
 

AdamWW

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6 Nov 2012
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If you're changing trains and have got a long wait, chances are you won't know what platform your next train will use anyway.

Cardiff has fairly fixed platform usage so, except where platform 0 is involved and to some extent platform 7, any regular passenger will know which island to be on for a given destination without even having to look it up.
 

Tomos y Tanc

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1 Jul 2019
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738
Having gone through the very long and interesting heritage impact statement, I have to say I'm very impressed by the sensitivity of the proposed interventions.

I do have some sympathy with Rhydgaled's quibbles, but I think he has accepted that they are pretty minor compared to the wanton destruction of some previous schemes.

The one beef I have with the scheme is the decision to opt for an an entirely new style of frontage for the southern entrance. Nothing of worth is being destroyed, and it's entirely a matter of personal taste, but I would have preferred a southern facade more in sympathy with the northern entrance rather than one designed to contrast with it.
 
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22 Jun 2013
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I quite like the southern facade, it's different and better than some of the ultra modern designs seen before. I'm not very impressed with the lack of toilets in the new build sections and the lack of cover to the proposed tram platforms. The latter may change as that scheme is planned I guess.

I wonder what sort of annual passenger numbers this scheme is designed for? I'm assuming not the 40m+ future passenger forecasts that were projected before Covid, this seems like a tweak to capacity and not much more.
 

LlanishenBull

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3 Nov 2023
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Cardiff
Yes, there are already screens in the subway, and they're excellent.
They provide very useful information. Changing trains last week I was able to easily see my train (to Holyhead) wasn't scheduled to depart on platform 1 or 2 as usual. I went to the screen by the northern barriers to see what was happening, it was leaving from platform 0. If I'd wandered up to platforms 1 and 2 it may have taken me a minute or two to work out where I needed to be, risking me missing my train.
 

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